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I read a long time ago that it would possible to play in all keys within six frets on the guitar. I guess that could be true but haven't tried to figure it out myself. You would probably have to know all differnt voiceings to do that. It would be comfortable or?
What is you point of view, have you figured it out?
/R
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02-15-2010 08:49 AM
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One of the steps I take when learning/practicing a tune is to play all the chords, arrpegios, and scales in one place on the neck - generally within 4 frets. Then I'll pick another spot on the neck and do it again.
For example I'll play the chord progression to All the things you are staying at the 7th & 8th fret. Then I'll play all the scales and arps to those same chords I came up with at the 7th and 8th fret.
Then I'll do the same thing at say the 3rd and 4th fret.
For me it's really good way to learn how to become fluent on the entire neck. You need to understand and practice the five basic chord forms and their alterations.
You may want to check out CAGED stuff here:
BTstudent8024 | Scribd
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Yes, very possible. I have seen several pros demonstrate this, and arrange their fingerings to help accomodate this.
Originally Posted by GuitaRoland
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The unasked question: would you want to play like this?
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Within 5 frets we can play 2 1/3 octaves of the chromatic scale and one repeat note due to the major 3rd tuning of G-B. If the chromatic scale is there then so are 12 keys and everything else within the range of the position.
Studying this way was very important to me for learning the fingerboard.
Some players think of a position as 6 frets (4 frets with and upper and lower extension)
but I prefer to work with 5 frets.
Yes in certain situations. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
1. sight reading
2. navigating melodic lines through fast harmony changes
It is one possible fingering strategy among many.
BDLH
What are some of your preferences?
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I honestly can say I don't think too much! But perhaps slurs, slides and such tend to make me move around the fretboard. But I can see how sight reading would benefit from planting yourself on one fret.
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Big Daddy,
There's a book that can explain it better than I can...
The Advancing Guitarist By Mick Goodrick
He suggests learning both ways.
He first has you playing verticle, up and down the neck on one string at a time, then two strings at a time, then three strings at a time. He feels this verticle playing is more important than position playing. This is an area that is seldom explored, at least not in the west. However if you play sitar...
Then he has you work on position playing.
Position playing, you've got almost 2 and 1/2 octaves, every key, every scale, every arp, and every chormatic note... right under your fingertips without having to shift positions (at least not more than one fret either way). To me this seems self evident that this is a good thing to learn.
Third step, you combing the first two steps and gain mastery of the entire fretboard. He calls this "The Realm of the Electic Ice-skating Rink". Now that's just too cool.Last edited by fep; 02-15-2010 at 01:25 PM.
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I recently purchased The Advancing Guitarist by Mick Goodrick. I am going to start practicing the one string concept soon.
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I learned all my scales and arps in a 6 fret span in position which is talked about in Goodrick's Advancing Guitarist. I used to have the lesson up on youtube, but I dunno the channel information anymore. I am planning to redo it tho.
It's very useful, however isn't always your best option. It also takes a lot of practice because basically you're learning 12 fingerings for every possible scale and arp, while many of them are just mirrors of each other it takes a lot of practice to master it. But it's worth the work.
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Here's a chart I submitted previously.
By altering select major scale tones you can create position fingerings for some other scales.
Flat the 3rd of each major key and you get 12 melodic minor fingerings
Flat the 3rd and the 6th for 12 harmonic minor fingerings
Flat the 6th for 12 harmonic major fingerings
Omit all the 4ths and sevenths for 12 pentatonic fingerings
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For me, that's exactly why you'd want to do this. I too practice this a lot and it has really helped solidify my fretboard knowledge. In actual playing, I generally move around all over the neck for many of the reasons BDLH said. But because I spend time playing progressions in one position, I've developed more of a mastery of all the different positions, which has helped my single note lines a lot. I can see more opportunities for linking a run up or down the neck then being able to continue playing at the new destination fluidly. This is a great way to get to the "not thinking so much" stage from that other thread. Originally Posted by GuitaRoland
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A lot of the playing I do requires reading charts, and I need to be able to do voicings without looking at the neck, so I've had to learn how to get all I need in small sections of the fretboard without making big shifts. It has improved my playing greatly. It's well worth it.
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I played in a local big band during the 80s and the 90s. I'm no pro, can only read chords but made it anyhow, guess I played close to ten years. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
What you did is exactly what I did - find the chords and voicings that were really close on the fret board. I was not even familiar with reading so the only chance for me to was to find a way to play without looking at the fret board.
/R
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I guess it would be a good exercise to find voicings for a whole tune within 6 frets. Pick a tune and I'll try it.
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Okey G. - to make this in one key would be no problem. Pick any jazz standard and I bet you will handle that. Originally Posted by gersdal
The original question was: Is it possible to play in all (every) key(s) within six frets on the guitar. Maybe I was unclear in my original thread but that was the I meant.
/R
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Voicings? For comping, or a chord melody arrangement? Originally Posted by gersdal
Either way:
1. All the things you are
2. Bluesette
3. One note samba
Index finger on 2nd fret.Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 02-17-2010 at 03:48 PM.
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Of course, it a note is pitched too low or too high it can't be played (unless you want harmonics Originally Posted by GuitaRoland
).
Otherwise, isn't it a given that all the chromatic notes are there?
Or are you asking how awkward the key might be to finger, and at what point would one give up and shift position?
Or are you talking about chords?
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I guess that I was unclear, the main issue is chords - comping in the first place. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
Of course, it a note is pitched too low or too high it can't be played (unless you want harmonics).
Otherwise, isn't it a given that all the chromatic notes are there?
Or are you asking how awkward the key might be to finger, and at what point would one give up and shift position?
Or are you talking about chords?
/R
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Years ago at Jazzmobile I studied in a class with Ted Dunbar. He used to say something like the whole universe is contained within 5 frets and then he would set out to prove it. We would spend 4 hours with him once a week and so he had alot of time to work with. He would pick a tune and proceed to play the theme and a solo chorus in 12 keys. He would make use of what was available, changing octaves when necessary. I could never tell that any one key was missing something, he always found a musical solution.
I think the purpose of playing this way is as an exercise of limitations. It is a way to find and assess all the resources available for a song within a limited geography. This yields all the shapes needed to play the same key anywhere on the guitar within 5 frets.
12 keys in 5 frets = 1 key within any 5 frets on the guitar
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I think you'd just plain want to move around with chords, especially if you want certain bottom and top notes, and extensions. I think most of the discussion here assumed we were talking about single lines. Originally Posted by GuitaRoland
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It is posted in the comping and chord forum Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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I few has a lot of key changes, but they will not cover every key. Agree, but it would be more interesting in my opinion than just make a theoretical all keys excercise. Originally Posted by GuitaRoland
No, not at all really. It has more to do with my ability to remember the first post when an idea comes along Originally Posted by GuitaRoland
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Using the "New Posts" button and ignoring the actual subforum name? Guilty Originally Posted by gersdal
It is posted in the comping and chord forum
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BD,
I find that if you stay in one position and run thru a tunes chords you often end up with better voice leading - without even thinking about it. It for the most part eliminates all those Louie Louie like parallel motion.
But probably more important to me, it expands your chord vocabulary and improves your chordal 'thinking'.
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The basic chords following the cycle of 5ths starting with C:
C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb B E A D G C
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-5--6--6--8---9--6--7--7--9--5--7--8--5-------
-5--5--7--8---8--6--6--8--9--6--7--7--5-------
-5--7--8--8--10--6--8--9--9--7--7--9--5-------
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All within 6 frets!
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