The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhond
    Wouldn’t that make it charleston?
    No, Charleston is 1 and 2+


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhond
    Having studied the music of Son House, as well as Rev Gary Davis, MJH, and several other names in that genre for at least 6 years with the help of two master players, one of which recorded on Kicking Mule... I have come to the conclusion that, paradoxically, while this music is a stepping stone to rock, learning it has very little to do with learning modern rock.

    I will grant, however, that the skills could be applied to creating some new genre.
    Sounds like solid rhythm is not your thing.

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhond
    modern rock.
    I have to confess this distinction doesn’t mean very much to me.

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Sounds like solid rhythm is not your thing.
    Not sure if I understand your reasoning there, this music is all about solid rhythm.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I have to confess this distinction doesn’t mean very much to me.
    Dunno either, but there sure is a difference between Elvis Presley and ACDC?

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhond
    Dunno either, but there sure is a difference between Elvis Presley and ACDC?
    AC/DC is modern rock? Ok. They are all about basic blues and rocknroll rhythm. If you dont see connection between early blues/rocknroll and AC/DC than you really dont understand how it works. I dont know about Presley, but say Chuck Berry, and no, there is no difference between him and AC/DC.

  8. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    AC/DC is modern rock? Ok. They are all about basic blues and rocknroll rhythm. If you dont see connection between early blues/rocknroll and AC/DC than you really dont understand how it works. I dont know about Presley, but say Chuck Berry, and no, there is no difference between him and AC/DC.
    I didn't say I don't see connection, and this kind of discussion is kind of fruitless.

  9. #83

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    Freddie Green, big-band, and Django-style players use the four-in-a-bar comp. It is stylistic so belongs to certain genres within jazz. It might sound a bit strange to break out into the style in a modern jazz setting where band members expect a looser, more minimal accompaniment. Having said that the style can be adapted to many situations. For example, if you watch John Pisano he plays with a kind of broken-up four-in-a-bar. If you watch Martin Taylor in a duo situation, he comps four-in-a-bar block chords—even over bebop—but keeps his bass moving. You're right in that the style takes time to master. It primarily serves to drives the rhythm. Modern jazz comping also requires time to master, but doesn't drive the rhythm. It outlines harmony offering alternative interpretations, however, confusion sometimes arises where rhythm is concerned. Improvising a lot rhythmically when comping can be a distraction when the accompanist is trying to stand out. Personally, I like four-in-a-bar, or a less complex rhythmical comping with clear sign-posting. Nothing wrong with hitting that chord on the first beat of the bar where it matters IMO.

  10. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by vsaumarez
    Freddie Green, big-band, and Django-style players use the four-in-a-bar comp. It is stylistic so belongs to certain genres within jazz. It might sound a bit strange to break out into the style in a modern jazz setting where band members expect a looser, more minimal accompaniment. Having said that the style can be adapted to many situations. For example, if you watch John Pisano he plays with a kind of broken-up four-in-a-bar. If you watch Martin Taylor in a duo situation, he comps four-in-a-bar block chords—even over bebop—but keeps his bass moving. You're right in that the style takes time to master. It primarily serves to drives the rhythm. Modern jazz comping also requires time to master, but doesn't drive the rhythm. It outlines harmony offering alternative interpretations, however, confusion sometimes arises where rhythm is concerned. Improvising a lot rhythmically when comping can be a distraction when the accompanist is trying to stand out. Personally, I like four-in-a-bar, or a less complex rhythmical comping with clear sign-posting. Nothing wrong with hitting that chord on the first beat of the bar where it matters IMO.
    See above.

  11. #85

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    Why can't "modern" compers play like Freddie Green?

    Just because they are not Freddie Green

  12. #86

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    Is this playing like FG?




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  13. #87

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    Why can't "modern" compers play like Freddie Green?


    Sign of the times. I read that as 'Why don't modern computers play like Freddie Green?'

    Sorry, carry on... :-)

  14. #88

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    Seems like a good time to put a link to that FG site again. Lots of great info about the style (and associated comping styles) here:

    A Comparative Study of Rhythm Guitar Styles

  15. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by user404
    Is this playing like FG?




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    Not in the least. It is closer to La Pompe. FG played nearly even quarter notes, not that heavily accented rhythm.

  16. #90

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    Some good FG here, you can hear him quite clearly at about 1:30, also at 5:20.


  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by user404
    Is this playing like FG?




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    No, but you might get into a polka band with this.

  18. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    Not in the least. It is closer to La Pompe. FG played nearly even quarter notes, not that heavily accented rhythm.
    yes i know, i'm not a good "swing rhythm" player, I'm just a rock player and I started studying jazz from 1 year.

    I think that many "modern" player wants to focus on which scale to use over a chords but not intereseted about rythm.

    something like "Malcolm young vs Angus" (someone talks about acdc)

    So... How to improve my rhythm FG swing style? any books/video/method?
    thanks

  19. #93

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    User404, check out the Matt Munistieri course on Peghead Nation website on early jazz rhythm guitar.

  20. #94

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    Great suggestion! I was struggling with a book to recommend tbh.

    You need to hear and feel it, so video is a much better idea than books. And Matt is one of my favourite rhythm players, sure for many others too.

  21. #95

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    Charlie Christian was a superb four to the bar rhythm player. Something overlooked about his playing I think.






    Also Oscar Moore was a master of the art too!


  22. #96

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    " Only if you are a guitarist on a swing scene, especially playing for dancers, you are good at it (comping)."
    Hep To The Jive

    Hi, H,
    I don't know how I missed this line the first time through but this is, for me, the entire nut in the shell. And, your comment applies to all dance music. When I was playing full time--middle 60's through early 80's, the bands that got booked all the time were the ones who could swing because people who went to "shows" wanted to dance to the music. Music wasn't a parlor sport. You got your best threads out of the closet, a few dabs of Brylcreem in your hair, a splash of English leather in appropriate places, and your most comfortable shoes. And, you went for the music and to dance(did I mention ladies?). And, the bands that were the most popular were the best ones for dancing. Implicit in this, of course, was the bands ability to "swing" whether it was R@R, R@B, Funk, Big Band, etc. And, that meant that the *rhythm guitarist had to keep the beat going along with the drummer and the bass. This is no different in Jazz although the vagaries of rhythm are more interesting and complex.
    So, when popular music and Jazz(swing/big band) transitioned from a dance form to a parlor art, rhythm took a dramatic shift into something less visceral but more cerebral. . . and, for me, this was the coup d'etat for the popularity of Jazz among the masses. Play live . . . Marinero


    *(see above) When I first started forming bands in the 60's, guitarists were divided into two groups: rhythm and lead guitarist--both having a defined function within the group. I wonder if groups still use these terms today? M

  23. #97

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    and now we have a very popular vintage scene with that same music (old school jazz, rock and roll and so on) repackaged for young people.

  24. #98

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    Here's some true Old School Chicago style dance. Hope you enjoy! Play live . . . Marinero


  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by arielcee
    Strange. So nobody plays guitar in high school jazz band anymore?
    Nope.

    1. Budget cuts in the arts (STEM is the future!)

    2. Transformation away from traditional high school band, jazz band and chorus towards more “relevant” and “creative” approaches - i.e. making beats and writing hip-hop “lyrics” - learning to strum and sing Beatles songs is about as historical as you can hope for.

  26. #100

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    Barry Harris had some very interesting things to say in yesterday’s Zoom class about the virtues of straight 4/4 rhythm as exemplified by Efferge Ware accompanying the young Charlie Parker on My Heart Tells Me and by Bud Powell behind Bird and Diz on the Massey Hall version of ATTYA (along with some highly critical comments about Mingus on the latter). He was disagreeing with a guitarist who found it too “old-fashioned,” pointing out the rhythmic freedom it affords the soloist when done properly.
    Last edited by pcjazz; 12-20-2020 at 04:31 PM.