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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    But; as a basic set of exercises Monder’s syllabus can be used over the long term to develop a stronger command of fretboard harmony.
    Absolutely

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Which is to say the dictionary definition of improvisation doesn’t really describe what Miles, Oscar, Louis etc were doing EITHER

    ‘something that is improvised, in particular a piece of music, drama, etc. created spontaneously or without preparation.’

    We are stuck with these words, but we have to realise they are inaccurate. See also ‘solo’, ‘transcription’ and so on
    Oh i do not really want to dive into 'what the improvization really is' ... I wrote a few time on this forum that I think to answer this question we should take in consideration 'listner's perception' (even if we speak about performer/improvizer we should consider him as a listner).
    Because improvization does not depend that much on concious intention.
    It is very contextual culturally what and why we hear things as improvized or not, and that affects us as performing improvizers.

    For me as a player the most important feeling is the sense of memonetary choice and creation... more deeply it is the extremely direct feeling of time flow that makes time almost totally stop..

    I call it sometimes: experiencing life direcectly. The rest of my activity (for a few exceptions)) seems bleak and fake imitation of life.

    And - which is interesting - it may happen even in classicla piece learnt and played note for note... I would say even more I have particular pleasure in playing baroque piece without a single extra embelishment but still feeling that I improvize)))

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    Oh i do not really want to dive into 'what the improvization really is' ... I wrote a few time on this forum that I think to answer this question we should take in consideration 'listner's perception' (even if we speak about performer/improvizer we should consider him as a listner).
    Because improvization does not depend that much on concious intention.
    It is very contextual culturally what and why we hear things as improvized or not, and that affects us as performing improvizers.
    My solution to this is pretty practical. I don’t care.

    I don’t actually give a rats bottom about improvisation: my base level aim is to get students to do something that sounds idiomatic and swinging and hear what they are playing.

    improvisation is only an issue if you spend your life learning music from scores in a formally pedagogical environment. In contrast there’s good reason to regard it as a natural outgrowth of the aural tradition, self directed learning and the needs of a practical musical environment.

    It will normally happen as a product of the way the human mind works. It’s really a hang up if people who grew up learning music from scores; and with the idea of there being a definitive text. If you get them out of that and into an aural approach, improvisation is an extension of this. Story telling, not writing a novel.

    (at some point someone is going to invoke Bill Evans haha; I don’t disagree with him (!) but I do think an over emphasis on improvisational process is unhelpful in the short run.)

    For me as a player the most important feeling is the sense of memonetary choice and creation... more deeply it is the extremely direct feeling of time flow that makes time almost totally stop,
    And - which is interesting - it may happen even in classicla piece learnt and played note for note... I would say even more I have particular pleasure in playing baroque piece without a single extra embelishment but still feeling that I improvize
    i think that’s called ‘actually making music’

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    Absolutely
    Please take this as a serious question ... How?

    I can't figure out how one can tackle Monder's prescription. It's an overwhelming amount of material and it doesn't offer any prioritization. More concerning, is that it barely addresses application.

    I agree with those who suggest that the way to learn this material is through chord melody -- and I'd add sophisticated comping. That way, when you learn a voicing, you're learning a contextualized sound, which gives you a chance to use it in another situation.

    And, for the underlying mechanics, I think it makes sense to approach it something like this:

    1. Learn the notes on the fingerboard -- cold.

    2. Learn how chords are constructed and named.

    3. Make it a goal to know the names of the notes in the chords you use. Automatic, and in all keys. You already know where they are.

    4. Start with C7. Play it everywhere on the neck you can. Then, notice that you can turn C7 into every other chord with a C root by adjusting/adding one or more notes. Then, all 12 keys.

    5. Put your Gm7s together with your C7s and your Fmaj7s and find the smoothly voice led ii V Is.

    At this point you have pretty good command of the fingerboard for comping and chord melody. Time for tunes. Watch youtube videos of good players comping through tunes. You already have enough information to figure out what they're doing.

    6. Don't forget that you can use fragments of chords and even single notes, while comping. It may help to begin to visualize them with the grips you know, but you don't have to do it that way. You just need that automatic knowedge of the chord tones you want to play in the next beat of the tune and where they are.

    7. Then, mine the world of jazz for interesting reharmonizations of tunes.

    This is a lot of work. But it's not infinite. I'd say a couple of years of concerted effort bolstered by plenty of time playing tunes in groups. Also, after the initial investment in basic fretboard knowledge, it's all about music.

    I'd argue that you don't need to know all those synonyms for chord names. You just need to know how to add alterations to chords and what they sound like in the context of a tune.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    Please take this as a serious question ... How?

    I can't figure out how one can tackle Monder's prescription. It's an overwhelming amount of material and it doesn't offer any prioritization. More concerning, is that it barely addresses application.

    I agree with those who suggest that the way to learn this material is through chord melody -- and I'd add sophisticated comping. That way, when you learn a voicing, you're learning a contextualized sound, which gives you a chance to use it in another situation.

    And, for the underlying mechanics, I think it makes sense to approach it something like this:

    1. Learn the notes on the fingerboard -- cold.

    2. Learn how chords are constructed and named.

    3. Make it a goal to know the names of the notes in the chords you use. Automatic, and in all keys. You already know where they are.

    4. Start with C7. Play it everywhere on the neck you can. Then, notice that you can turn C7 into every other chord with a C root by adjusting/adding one or more notes. Then, all 12 keys.

    5. Put your Gm7s together with your C7s and your Fmaj7s and find the smoothly voice led ii V Is.

    At this point you have pretty good command of the fingerboard for comping and chord melody. Time for tunes. Watch youtube videos of good players comping through tunes. You already have enough information to figure out what they're doing.

    6. Don't forget that you can use fragments of chords and even single notes, while comping. It may help to begin to visualize them with the grips you know, but you don't have to do it that way. You just need that automatic knowedge of the chord tones you want to play in the next beat of the tune and where they are.

    7. Then, mine the world of jazz for interesting reharmonizations of tunes.

    This is a lot of work. But it's not infinite. I'd say a couple of years of concerted effort bolstered by plenty of time playing tunes in groups. Also, after the initial investment in basic fretboard knowledge, it's all about music.

    I'd argue that you don't need to know all those synonyms for chord names. You just need to know how to add alterations to chords and what they sound like in the context of a tune.

    Personally... I am not much into that 'learn all in all keys', 'learn all the chords in all inversions' stuff etc. Though i admit it is needed...
    And this systemized point by point agenda is also not for me...

    I always did a bit of that and a bit of this.. and the somehow eventually I get the feeling of the whole picture... there are 'blind spots' and 'gaps' but it is ok... they will come into focus one day... this concerns other ares too.. not only guitar playing.

    I like to do what makes me happy... I like process... I am not much into 'hard work' to achieve the goal.... My goal is being happy here and now ... more or less.

    Though I admit that some basic routine should be done of course, and some idscipline is needed.


    As for Ben Monder's sheet... it is exactly what it is... you know in baroque times they liked to make sort of Labyrinths... it was particular fun to put everything in one model - so that if you can properly use it you can get access to any knowledge in the area.
    It reflected that era's interest to practical mechanism combined with extreme supernatural fantasies.

    Ben's list is not a prescription it is that kind of sheet that you can turn upside down if you need and derive sonething to practice with... I am sure it does not presume that linear deligent learning... or not... it does presume it too if one is crazy enough for that... why not?

    But for me it is something you do not read fronm left to right , and from up and downwards in literal sense...


    PS
    Some time ago I watched Bill Frisell's interview.. where he was asked what he does for practice... he said: you know... yesteday I tried to play pentatonics with one extra note ... it was interesting... I like doing things like that.... etc. Bill is acconplished musician in his 60s and he tried to play pentatonics plus 1 note a few days ago...

    It is just an approach... we live today in the world where pragmatism became casual mentality: people want to secure that they are really ready for something, that they are done with something.... 'I will do this and that and I will become this and that' - No.
    People believe in professionalis: 'I will apply to professional and he will solve the problem' - No. At best he usually can advise something... you have to solve it yourself (even most of causal medical problems... )

    There are things and areas which are not about it at all.

    My friend says: if after 30 you are not a doctor for yourself you really do not know yourself at all... I would say the same thing approximately about guitar... if after a few years of playing (adult) you're not a teacher for youself ---
    Last edited by Jonah; 07-23-2020 at 02:51 PM.

  7. #31

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    I generally approach by understanding the organization of the system being applied, which usually then just requires the technique to be able to apply.

    as far as the Moulder’s basic almost cst approach to organizing chord structures and voicing, that’s kind of basic musicianship... I mean when you’re starting to play a style of music, you should at least learn the basics of the musical components from which the style uses. Then the application of deriving voicings through a simple organization of realizing Yada Yada...
    I mean, this Is simple To notate out and understand, then the realizing on guitar can become difficult depending on your technical fretboard organization and your skill level.

    the upper structure thing...What organization do you want to use for “the upper structures “
    triads...7th chords etc... you need source for creating and organizing the pitch sets. Then a application for using... personally these types of voicing creation systems... after you get past the “wow” of 1st few hearings... become boring and not very useful, on guitar. Great for worked out prearranged compositions...rehearsed performance etc...

    What can become useful is using the approach To help expand what you play... for example when most jazz players see a chord, they generally relate that chord to tonal reference with context...which then allows that chord to become a chord pattern, which also implies that chord and it’s tonal implication in that context. And when your able to use the “upper structure voicings” to expand the “chord pattern”, while still keeping the tonal implications and context intact.... Well now your playing as compared to throwing in some cool or hip BS that is at best an embellishment etc.

    I use to call this the plug and play approach . You develop collections of voicings that you don’t need to think about, Almost like licks, chord licks that can use in real time below a lead line. And like knowing the concept or organization that chord tones work over the implied chord... you now have an expanded organization of chord tones.

    This is just the beginning, right, you then develop different versions of your chord patterns, which can have variations of The basic starting chord, which becomes a tonal target with functional context...which can be used,expanded, adapted etc..in real time...the improv thing.

  8. #32

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    I don't see the connection between Monder's pdf and CST.

    Basically, Monder is recommending knowing every possible way to play every possible chord and knowing every possible name for each one. Well, close to that, anyway.

  9. #33

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    He says....take all chords that you can create from maj, harmonic min and meodic min. And be able to play any voicing from those chords derived from the scales...any way and anywhere on the guitar.

    the same source for chord construction at beginning stages of cst.
    cst then actually gets into the possibilities of how to use chords in context.

    voicings don.t have much to do with theory... they’re just personal choices of performance....or if you want to get into basic non jazz contrapuntal organization

  10. #34

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    I heard Jim Hall with Don Thompson and a drummer at the Keystone Korner in SF years ago.

    Jim didn't use all that many different chord grips. I remember being surprised at how much he used x5666x for different harmonies.

    Guitar has progressed since then. I get that.

    But, my guess is that it is still more efficient to learn grips in the context of songs, not a massive isolated-from-tunes effort at memorizing grips. This applies to the more advanced player -- the novice needs to have some vocabulary to get onto this path.

    You're probably better off learning 8 ways to apply a chord you know, than learning 7 more chords.

    Learning chord melody is a great way to do this. Because it's usually oriented toward finding different ways to navigate through a tune harmonically, typically with attention to the voice leading. You learn the mechanical part of it mated with the sound of each element. You can apply the new voices to comping immediately. The sounds inform your soloing and, if you analyze what's going on, you can support your efforts to reproduce those sounds by naming them.

    Years ago Carl Barry told me that Chuck Wayne would try to solo on every chord in his chord melody version of a tune. Not just the basic changes, but all of his elaborations.

  11. #35

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    Guitar has progressed since then. I get that.
    I don't think such things are subject to progress really...

  12. #36
    I did not think that my innocent question would cause such an interesting discussion. Very nice

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by freud View Post
    I did not think that my innocent question would cause such an interesting discussion. Very nice
    You're freud... innocence, questions and their consequences must be your specialization.

  14. #38

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    Sometimes a D major triad is just a D major triad

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Sometimes a D major triad is just a D major triad
    Don't judge the triads by their looks. Let them sound and express their inner essence.

  16. #40

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    Yea getting back to the upper structure thing... Freud... what is the goal of using this type of harmonic or melodic organization.
    The Molder page is just a technical study with organization for creation and then actual technical fretboard awareness etc...
    Boston back in the 7p’s
    You said upper structure... which in jazz tends to imply piano voicing things generally from arranging practice... same with your drop 2 voicings.

    But basically you can take any bass line, both root motion or melodic bass or lower voiced line and keep that line or root motion... Diatonic. Then use a two or three note voicing on top of that lower or bass line. Think of McCoy 4th voicings. You can have diatonic constant structure voicings on top or even use some real constant structure 4th voicings to make the sound more fun. When I was back in Boston as kid we use to play the 4th and 9th games with any aspect of playing we could...even melodically using 4ths as organization for getting out tonally. I actually had conversations with Michael Brecker about melodic development concepts...the hard part is always being able to perform, the actual playing thing. This can get really forced and vanilla sounding without something to give it life. If your performing for musicians or some of the few jazz fans left... can reallyA piano be fun.

    Anyway that’s the basic concept... two musical parts like contrapuntal organization.. without all the traditional guideline BS.

    Another approach is using modern Blues concepts... jazz blues concepts with organization of again two parts. Usually again more in a piano style. The bass or lower reference line moves to the top and the voicing is the lower part becomes the upper structure aspect.
    That upper line uses Blue note aspects of organization...which result of being able to stand on it’s own harmonically and the voicings can use different harmonic organization.

    This is how I’ve comped for most of my life... you can develop voicings Patterns that imply chord patterns... which give you many more options of what the tonal target of the voicing
    Pattern can imply.
    If this sound like something you might be interested in, we can keep going...or not.
    Im good whatever
    Last edited by Reg; 09-16-2021 at 09:26 AM.

  17. #41

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    So Monder only came to my attention a few months ago and I have looked into his playing style VA little.

    I've transcribed parts of his solo pieces, got his mymusicmaster class videos (which is him basically playing through his lesson sheet) and of course have started on his lesson sheet.

    The thing that is missing from the lesson sheet, and this is where the chord scales become practical, is to apply each chord scale to a standard.

    In other words pick a standard and play through it using one chord scale. Once you can do that learn the next chord scale etc

    Also Ben goes beyond diatonic material but obviously you should learn the diatonic stuff first.

    Many jazz guitar teachers actually say this. Students want to learn diminished and whole tone stuff but they can't play diatonic very well. So crawl before you walk, walk before you run.

    So learn triads and 7th chord scales etc before looking at clusters etc.

    Personally I am using these chord scales to write my own material....and as such I am finding great joy in music and that's what it's all about.

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker View Post
    So Monder only came to my attention a few months ago and I have looked into his playing style VA little.

    I've transcribed parts of his solo pieces, got his mymusicmaster class videos (which is him basically playing through his lesson sheet) and of course have started on his lesson sheet.

    The thing that is missing from the lesson sheet, and this is where the chord scales become practical, is to apply each chord scale to a standard.

    In other words pick a standard and play through it using one chord scale. Once you can do that learn the next chord scale etc

    Also Ben goes beyond diatonic material but obviously you should learn the diatonic stuff first.

    Many jazz guitar teachers actually say this. Students want to learn diminished and whole tone stuff but they can't play diatonic very well. So crawl before you walk, walk before you run.

    So learn triads and 7th chord scales etc before looking at clusters etc.

    Personally I am using these chord scales to write my own material....and as such I am finding great joy in music and that's what it's all about.
    Theres enough going on in what jazz musicians inaccurately call ‘diatonic harmony’ to keep you going for several lifetimes of that floats ones boat (in fact there has never been any such thing; the simplest 18th century harmonisations constantly mix modes. I think they mean ‘common practice’ or the equally inaccurate term ‘functional tonality.’)

    in fact jazz players often have quite a sketchy grasp of that type of thing, but it doesn’t necessarily matter. Most build out structures from existing chord sequences, or write music that doesn’t follow ‘functional’ rules… although it’s worth bearing in mind some of our best composers were highly versed in traditional composition.

    Anyway styles change, emphasis changes, music doesn’t get more advanced, or we’d all be able to write fugues like Bach.

    It’s very hard to develop ones harmonic vocabulary beyond the merely generic. Ben Monders pdf merely covers combinations, and isn’t even exhaustive (!), it gives you the alphabet, not the words.

  19. #43

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    ted greene said.."..I'm thinking in more than one key.." in answer to my..not how do you play that..but "what are you thinking"

    learning sequential patterns gets easier as any repetitive motions become "muscle memory" ..this is mechanical

    in thinking of "upper partials" as thinking in more than one key.

    per the Monder chart..CMA7 = Eb13b9#5..ok.. so you can now think in the key of C and Ab-MA/min (implied)

    within the upper partials of the C Maj chord/scale..the triad of D F A could also imply the key of Bb/Dmin as well - and all the permutations/inversions of the chords within those scales

    in the style of Fusion and progressive Jazz/Rock..this kind of thinking is primary..

    players like Monder, Tom Quayle, Govan and many others abandon set tonality..but it has order to it..its not "free form"

    to ask what "key" they are playing in..you may get the response..all of them.

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen View Post
    players like Monder, Tom Quayle, Govan and many others abandon set tonality..but it has order to it..its not "free form"
    No dig against Govan or Quayle (very impressive players), but I'd never put them in a category with Ben Monder in terms of composition or harmonic concept... TBH I haven't spent a huge amount of time listening to Govan or Quayle, so maybe I'm listening to the wrong stuff, while I quite often find that Ben Monder is crowbarring my ears open with some of the stuff he does, or actually just slightly off centre in a kind of very distinctive harmonic world that's accessible yet very personal, Govan and Quayle sound like instrumental fusion guitar players. I think there's a profoundly different approach to music at play.





    Monder himself is coming from a background in 20th century classical stuff, so it's much more rooted compositionally, and much more open. It's also interesting to hear how he adapts his approach to standards.



    I don't hear that from Quayle or Govan, but maybe I'm not listening to the right stuff of theirs, I've not heard any abandonment of tonality, maybe the odd jazz influenced or 'outside' lick.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen View Post
    ted greene said.."..I'm thinking in more than one key.." in answer to my..not how do you play that..but "what are you thinking"


    CMA7 = Eb13b9#5
    Just a comment on this equation.

    Cmaj7= C E G B

    Eb13b9#5 = Eb G B Db E C

    What does this equation mean?

    Eb13b9#5 contains a Cmaj7 chord and two other notes, Eb and Db. Those are the root and b7 which identify the chord as a specific dominant sound. If you play a Cmaj7 arp, it will be consonant with the chord, even if you feel that the missing Db should be there.

    Can I apply tonic type sounds from Cmaj7 and apply them as Eb dominant sounds? What about the usual suspects, Em7? Gmaj7#11 Am7?

    Let's see:

    Em7 is E G B D. The D doesn't work. Eb dominant needs a Db.
    Am7 is A C E G. That one should work about as well as Cmaj7
    Gmaj7#11 is G B C# F#. Should work, I guess.

    You can't run the equation backwards. Eb dominant derived arps will tend to be very dissonant over C tonic chords like Cmaj7. For example, Bbm7, Bb Db F Ab is not an obvious sub for Cmaj7.

    I haven't addressed the issue of seeing that Eb dominant with alterations as part of Ab major or minor. That's because I haven't figured out how to make use of the idea. I understand how Eb dominant is associated with Ab maj and Eb7b9 is associated with Abm, but I don't understand how to use the equation with Cmaj7.

    I'm just trying to think it through.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    Just a comment on this equation.

    Cmaj7= C E G B

    Eb13b9#5 = Eb G B Db E C

    What does this equation mean?

    Let's see:

    You can't run the equation backwards. Eb dominant derived arps will tend to be very dissonant over C tonic chords like Cmaj7. For example, Bbm7, Bb Db F Ab is not an obvious sub for Cmaj7.

    I haven't addressed the issue of seeing that Eb dominant with alterations as part of Ab major or minor. That's because I haven't figured out how to make use of the idea. I understand how Eb dominant is associated with Ab maj and Eb7b9 is associated with Abm, but I don't understand how to use the equation with Cmaj7.

    I'm just trying to think it through.
    In the Monder pdf..he says use a C pedal over the superimposed chords..

    lets add one more chord from his list and see if this makes any sense

    CM7=AbM7#9 #5

    I use this type of thinking .. I see both the Eb13b9#5 and AbM7#9#5 as gateways to/from CM7 via augmented and diminished scale fragments..which expand the harmonic possibilities

    you have to experiment with this kind of stuff to make it work its not a ready fit like a puzzle piece..the diminished scale has many chords within its structure..the augmented scale has six chords plus
    each note of the hexatonic scale can be used as the root of a 3 note augmented chord..from these sources the possibilities of harmonic and melodic lines are many
    Last edited by wolflen; 09-16-2021 at 02:29 AM.

  23. #47

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    Playing a major seventh type chord in an altered chord context will make the altered chord sound less ‘resolvey’ which makes the chord sound more contemporary and less bebop.

    in fact not having a seventh or third in the chord is not a bug it’s a feature. An obvious example would be a B triad on Eb7. Or an Em triad on Eb7. Neither contain a Db, and the B triad doesn’t contain a G either.

    You can add the Db or G to the B triad and it will in fact sound dissonant even though it belongs to the lower structure. So it’s kind of an avoid note (the guide tones of the chord are avoid notes - whaaaaaa?) Jordan Klemons demonstrated a few years back on JGO this and it completely changed the way I hear chords. So the way I hear it is the Us has its own identity independent from the base chord. If you give it it’s own space it can create a colour.

    If you are new to this I’d suggest playing around with these triad ideas…

    So the C triad on Eb7 is the classic way to voice a Eb13b9 obviously. Again you can add the Db to the C triad and again it will sound dissonant. Adding the major seventh to that chord will give you the #5. I’d need to play with it to see if that sounds like a tension note or not, a note that you want to sit on or resolve.

    I don’t feel the need to always relate these things to scales…. You can construct hexachords out of these combinations of course, but to me it’s about hearing these superpositions. Not all notes are equal, and that’s where CST gets it wrong IMO; there’s a spectrum of qualities until you get to ‘avoid note.’ (And not all avoid notes are equal.)
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 09-16-2021 at 06:51 AM.

  24. #48

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    Classic bebop - postbop superpositions tend to be based more on aug and major7#5 sounds; these are of course later systematised as your classic melodic minor sounds and they sound ‘exotic’ and unresolved. Billy Strayhorn, Parker etc etc going into Herbie. We’ve had decades of this type of harmony, and it’s all over film scores etc (John Barry used this to death.)

    so this type of harmony is, dare I say it, quite old hat?

    However, major and minor triads draw the ear much more away from the context and towards the object. They sound in general much more modern.

    (although not always. The C/Eb7 is pretty old school actually.)

    If you like, contemporary harmony to my ears is actually about NOT playing melodic minor harmony, for example. Because melodic minor is so… resolvey - you find objects like pentatonic scales and major triads and so on that are not inherently dissonant and use them to create a composite colour. If you just play the melodic minor everything still sounds like functional harmony (albeit extended.)

    Monder seems interested in going further with it; not necessarily relying on scales to come up with chords, but thinking about the possibilities inherent in putting chords over other chords. It’s actually pretty simple compared to the stuff in the David Leibman book.

    Its about finding consonance within dissonance; if you like.

    Another point - Chris Potter talks about using Ab major as a scale choice on a C7alt chord. So that’s the next step - the clashes in the Ab scale don’t matter, we are talking about a type of superimposed diatonic bitonality rather than a vertical system. That’s actually something people have been doing in jazz since the early days.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 09-16-2021 at 07:05 AM.

  25. #49

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    Wow this thread seems to have gone off a cliff...

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen View Post
    In the Monder pdf..he says use a C pedal over the superimposed chords..

    lets add one more chord from his list and see if this makes any sense

    CM7=AbM7#9 #5

    I use this type of thinking .. I see both the Eb13b9#5 and AbM7#9#5 as gateways to/from CM7 via augmented and diminished scale fragments..which expand the harmonic possibilities

    you have to experiment with this kind of stuff to make it work its not a ready fit like a puzzle piece..the diminished scale has many chords within its structure..the augmented scale has six chords plus
    each note of the hexatonic scale can be used as the root of a 3 note augmented chord..from these sources the possibilities of harmonic and melodic lines are many
    I'm struggling to understand this. Might you give an example, from a tune, in which you use Eb13b9#5 or AbM7#9#5 as a "gateway to/from CM7"?

    Apparently, the way my mind works, is that I can absorb this stuff when I see/hear it in a song, but I tend not to get much out of a theoretical concept in the abstract. So, thanks in advance for any example you might ofer.

    AbM7#9#5 is Ab C E G B. It would typically be notated, I should think, as Cmaj7/Ab. Some players might bring C harmonic major into the discussion (C D E F G Ab B). I do understand that I can use an Ab note to create some tension on my way to Cmajor, although I can't think of an example where Cmaj7/Ab would sound good. How this should be labeled harmonically, it seems to me, would depend on what the bassist does.

    I guess I don't understand it.