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  1. #1

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    Hi Folks,

    As we come to the end of another year I have decided that I really need to step back and get a better understanding in this area before I go any further in my jazz journey. Sure being able to solo over chord changes is more glamorous but I think really understanding chord changes/progressions would really help me in area as well. And I hope I don’t need a whole lot of theory, just knowing that 2-5-1 works well, other standard progressions work well also. Where do diminished chords come in and work well? What kind of chord substation options work well. The other reason this really appeals to me is that I really enjoy doing vocals on Jazz Standards and play with a trio where I have others that can do solo work with me doing comping.


    Pennies from Heaven/The Nearness of You


    Mood Indigo

    Do any of you have any recommendations for me on how best to learn and grow in this area? With this being the end of the year there are lots of Sales on Jazz guitar lessons out there. Any recommendations in this area?

    Thanks folks and Happy New Year to all

    Bill

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrass Bill Ward
    Hi Folks,

    As we come to the end of another year I have decided that I really need to step back and get a better understanding in this area before I go any further in my jazz journey. Sure being able to solo over chord changes is more glamorous but I think really understanding chord changes/progressions would really help me in area as well. And I hope I don’t need a whole lot of theory, just knowing that 2-5-1 works well, other standard progressions work well also. Where do diminished chords come in and work well? What kind of chord substation options work well. The other reason this really appeals to me is that I really enjoy doing vocals on Jazz Standards and play with a trio where I have others that can do solo work with me doing comping.


    Pennies from Heaven/The Nearness of You


    Mood Indigo

    Do any of you have any recommendations for me on how best to learn and grow in this area? With this being the end of the year there are lots of Sales on Jazz guitar lessons out there. Any recommendations in this area?

    Thanks folks and Happy New Year to all

    Bill
    Bill, you have opened up a can of worms.

    Here are two ideas to get you started:
    Tritone substitution - take a 2 - 5 - 1 for example Dm7 - G7 - C. Substitute the G7 for a Db7. The chord progression now becomes Dm7 - Db7 - C. This very effective, especially at the end of a song.

    Secondly, any dominant chord can be turned into a diminished chord. G7 (G, B, D, F) can be turned into G7b9. The G7b9 contains a G, B, D, F, Ab. If you remove the G, the remaining notes form a diminished chord. The diminished chord is made up of all minor thirds. Therefore it can be moved up or down the neck in 3 fret jumps without changing its shape. Now your Dm7 - G7 - C chord progression becomes Dm7 - Ddim/Fdim (with a Ab on top) - C (with a G on top).

    Those two concepts alone will keep you busy for a while.


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  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrass Bill Ward
    As we come to the end of another year I have decided that I really need to step back and get a better understanding in this area before I go any further in my jazz journey. Sure being able to solo over chord changes is more glamorous but I think really understanding chord changes/progressions would really help me in area as well. And I hope I don’t need a whole lot of theory, just knowing that 2-5-1 works well, other standard progressions work well also. Where do diminished chords come in and work well? What kind of chord substation options work well.
    Marc Sabatella's book, "The Harmonic Language of Jazz Standards," is a great introduction to common progressions. Available here: Books – Outside Shore Music

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    any dominant chord can be turned into a diminished chord. G7 (G, B, D, F) can be turned into G7b9. The G7b9 contains a G, B, D, F, Ab. If you remove the G, the remaining notes form a diminished chord. The diminished chord is made up of all minor thirds. Therefore it can be moved up or down the neck in 3 fret jumps without changing its shape. Now your Dm7 - G7 - C chord progression becomes Dm7 - Ddim/Fdim (with a Ab on top) - C (with a G on top).
    On the other hand, any diminished 7th chord can generate four dominant 7th chords: drop any note of the diminished a half-step and the resulting note is the root of the resulting dominant. (And now we're heading into Barry Harris territory, which is a great place to be ... )

  6. #5

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    Look closely at the info the guys above posted about diminished chords.

    If I may, to hone in on this question "Where do diminished chords come in and work well?"

    1. If they repeat every minor 3rd, there is only 3 possible diminished chords.
    2. Each of the 3 diminished chords has a function in every key.
    3. The bii dimished pulls to a ii chord
    4. The ii diminished pulls to the I chord
    5. The biii diminished pulls to the I OR ii.

    This is not to add confusion. If you can grasp this point you will understand where every dominant chord substitution in the realbook comes from, and conversely you will understand all the dominant subs you can choose to insert for yourself.

    This is also Barry Harris territory.



  7. #6

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    Understanding chord progressions is a worthwhile New Year's resolution. It's something that I've spent the last few months digging into. There's a whole world to explore there. I'll never be a good soloist or improviser, so at this stage of the game chords and progressions is where my focus is. Especially how to connect chords to other chords or to their own inversions and create some movement.

    Good luck to you in the new year.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by corpse
    Look closely at the info the guys above posted about diminished chords.If I may, to hone in on this question "Where do diminished chords come in and work well?"1. If they repeat every minor 3rd, there is only 3 possible diminished chords.2. Each of the 3 diminished chords has a function in every key.3. The bii dimished pulls to a ii chord4. The ii diminished pulls to the I chord5. The biii diminished pulls to the I OR ii.This is not to add confusion. If you can grasp this point you will understand where every dominant chord substitution in the realbook comes from, and conversely you will understand all the dominant subs you can choose to insert for yourself.This is also Barry Harris territory.
    Wow, Thanks everybody!A gold mine of great information and encouragement just like that! I "Liked" every post but some of my likes did not seem to show up. Believe me all posts were much appreciated. The multiple discussions on diminished chords particular was especially informative. Now I am going to have to make sure that I understand what was shared, especially the specific info above from "Corpse"Thanks again everybody!Bill

  9. #8

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    Soloing is nice, but as a guitarist that likes to play a lot, I sure get to keep myself busier by being willing to comp and play rhythm guitar. This allows me to play with over 35 musicians playing jazz every week. Isn't that kind of where it's at?

  10. #9

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    Cosmic Gumbo hit the nail on the head, and I am really jealous! I am feeling good about my New Years resolution and goals. Thanks again for all the comments and encouragement!
    Last edited by Bluegrass Bill Ward; 01-01-2020 at 12:57 PM. Reason: just a formating issue,

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    Marc Sabatella's book, "The Harmonic Language of Jazz Standards," is a great introduction to common progressions. Available here: Books – Outside Shore Music
    Is this for guitar? It looks like it’s for piano.


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  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbs
    Is this for guitar? It looks like it’s for piano.


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    It's for music.