The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    no wonder you didn't mention Schnitzel because that's what most Brits and Americans rave about when remembering Germany.
    Well, they would, wouldn't they

    I'm more a Strudel and Stollen person...

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Well, they would, wouldn't they

    I'm more a Strudel and Stollen person...
    Not a bad thing at all. If I may ask (and not intending to derail this thread): in which part or town in Germany did you live?

  4. #53

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    Army bases - Bielefeld, Düsseldorf and Osnabrück. I think we spent most of the time in Osnabrück.

    Where did you get your impressive English? Most people say 'school' but I know it was more than that :-)

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Army bases - Bielefeld, Düsseldorf and Osnabrück. I think we spent most of the time in Osnabrück.

    Where did you get your impressive English? Most people say 'school' but I know it was more than that :-)
    Bielefeld and Osnabrück are not too far away from where I live. Was your dad in the army?

    As for my English - my grandma worked for the British Army here in my hometown - as a war widow she had to raise three boys after the war, not an easy task.
    I often walked all across town to pick her up at the barracks to go home and spend the afternoon with her. Often I had to wait and the guard at the gate would try to start a conversation with me. That's probably the start of my fascination with the language - it just sounded good to my ears. Couldn't wait until I got English classes in school. Next thing was music of course - trying to transcribe lyrics (hilarious what I thought I heard they were singing sometimes - still remember some of my misheard lyrics). Then it was about reading. I went down to the central railway station because they had a good newspaper stand which carried Melody Maker and NME which I bought and read frequently. FF it was my interest in blues - I looked for and found books about the subject and "read" them. In the late 70s and 80s our band was working a lot with blues musicians from the US on their german and european tours which was a great experience both musically and regarding practicing and learning more english. I think that to this day I may find it easier to understand a guy from the US south than someone from the UK with a heavy accent.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Was your dad in the army?
    It definitely wasn't me :-) Yes, he was.

    As for my English - my grandma worked for the British Army here in my hometown - as a war widow she had to raise three boys after the war, not an easy task.
    I often walked all across town to pick her up at the barracks to go home and spend the afternoon with her. Often I had to wait and the guard at the gate would try to start a conversation with me. That's probably the start of my fascination with the language - it just sounded good to my ears. Couldn't wait until I got English classes in school. Next thing was music of course - trying to transcribe lyrics (hilarious what I thought I heard they were singing sometimes - still remember some of my misheard lyrics). Then it was about reading. I went down to the central railway station because they had a good newspaper stand which carried Melody Maker and NME which I bought and read frequently. FF it was my interest in blues - I looked for and found books about the subject and "read" them. In the late 70s and 80s our band was working a lot with blues musicians from the US on their german and european tours which was a great experience both musically and regarding practicing and learning more english..
    Ah, you see, essentially self-taught. Best way to do it. Maybe the same with music too. Put them together and...

    I think that to this day I may find it easier to understand a guy from the US south than someone from the UK with a heavy accent
    I'm no expert on US accents but I suspect a Southern accent isn't too hard to follow. I've heard some, mostly in movies, that are really difficult. It's not just a basic accent, it's the use of certain words and phrases particular to the States. Till I put subtitles on I never realised how much I was missing.

    As for local UK accents, absolutely. And don't mention Scottish ones, they can be impossible. You might like this (and so will everyone else, probably). I have no idea what he said!


  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1


    Ah, you see, essentially self-taught. Best way to do it. Maybe the same with music too. Put them together and...


    Always got bad grades from the teachers that insisted on learning grammar rules (music theory ?) but good ones who realized I used grammar properly without being able to quote the rules (learning by ear?).
    I know and met a guy from Glasgow - thankfully he tried to talk in a way so that I could understand him....

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Always got bad grades from the teachers that insisted on learning grammar rules (music theory ?) but good ones who realized I used grammar properly without being able to quote the rules (learning by ear?).
    I know and met a guy from Glasgow - thankfully he tried to talk in a way so that I could understand him....
    Oh, teachers. I've run into a few of those in my time.

    We better get back to the blues, Tommo, but I'll tell you this story. I was, again, very young, maybe about six-ish. We were told to do a maths problem and I was told my answer was wrong. I kept getting the same answer again and again so I was kept behind after school. Every time I showed it to this woman teacher she told me it was wrong and I had to do it again.

    Then, finally, she left the room, probably for the loo or something. I knew she had the book of answers on her desk so I snuck a quick look - and my answer had been right. Can you imagine the fury? So I ran out of the school and all the way home and told my mother.

    She went up there and demanded to know what was going on. She was told 'He got the right answer but not the right way'.

    Yes, teachers :-)

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1

    She went up there and demanded to know what was going on. She was told 'He got the right answer but not the right way'.

    Yes, teachers :-)
    Where's the "facepalm" smilie when you need it?

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    I look at the question of 7ths (and 3rds and 4ths 5ths) in blues much more simply than the rest of you guys: Blues is microtonal, vocal music, played on non-microtonal (or at least less microntonal) instruments. Fudging major/minor 7/3 or blue 4/5 is legal and part of the toolkit for copping microtonal vocal effects, including by creating transitory "clashes" between instruments. Piano plays major 7, sax plays minor 7 (or vice versa)? Not a problem.

    John
    This can certainly be overlooked.

    There’s the classic thing of playing 3 and b3 or 5 and b5 together on the piano to try and get that sound. Obviously we can bend strings on the guitar like Django and BB King, but someone took a vote in 1942 and we aren’t allowed to do that anymore in jazz land.

    It’s also worth pointing out that the fashion for soloists during the prewar era was often to be much more vocal. Cootie Williams is the classic example, but the blues intonation, high intensity soloing, wah wah effects and so on.... need I go on?

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg
    the graph shows the real story.

    77% of jazzers went to conservatory or similar
    70% make less than 12k per year from musical activities while investing almost 5k per year on average.
    only 5% make 30k or more
    over 50% play less than 25 gigs per year.
    64% of all jazz gigs pay less than 150.-

    in the big towns like cologne, hamburg or berlin, 50% of the gigs pay 50 euro or less (!)
    Wow that’s a bit worse than here I would imagine, but if be interested to know the actual figures.

    Most people here teach. Does that count as musical activities?

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg
    the graph shows the real story.

    77% of jazzers went to conservatory or similar
    70% make less than 12k per year from musical activities while investing almost 5k per year on average.
    only 5% make 30k or more
    over 50% play less than 25 gigs per year.
    64% of all jazz gigs pay less than 150.-

    in the big towns like cologne, hamburg or berlin, 50% of the gigs pay 50 euro or less (!)
    New Yorkers are like "wow, that's pretty good money!"

    John

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg
    yes, it does.
    Sounds a bit rubbish in Germany! But maybe if you look at the National picture in UK outside the cities it’s similar. Don’t know if anyone has commissioned research on this. May try a search when I get a moment.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Wow that’s a bit worse than here I would imagine, but if be interested to know the actual figures.

    Most people here teach. Does that count as musical activities?
    That's a very good question. I'd say not. Personally I found it pretty tedious. There's no doubt I could teach but.... could they learn? It's very much a two-way thing. In any case, I found the mere transmission of knowledge pretty unproductive. However, it was quite nice when they started being able to do things they couldn't before but that only happened occasionally.

    Most of them genuinely thought somebody else was going to magically do it all for them. It's something I did my best to disillusion them about. I said 'You'll only ever get out of it what you put in'.

    It wasn't a lifestyle I enjoyed. Not because I was selfish and didn't give - quite the contrary - but because the material wasn't there. They had a vision of themselves playing brilliantly like their heroes but didn't want the slog to get there. What can you do?

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    That's a very good question. I'd say not. Personally I found it pretty tedious. There's no doubt I could teach but.... could they learn? It's very much a two-way thing. In any case, I found the mere transmission of knowledge pretty unproductive. However, it was quite nice when they started being able to do things they couldn't before but that only happened occasionally.

    Most of them genuinely thought somebody else was going to magically do it all for them. It's something I did my best to disillusion them about. I said 'You'll only ever get out of it what you put in'.

    It wasn't a lifestyle I enjoyed. Not because I was selfish and didn't give - quite the contrary - but because the material wasn't there. They had a vision of themselves playing like their heroes but didn't want the slog to get there. What can you do?
    I think I find teaching beginners way more fun than when I started. It’s not transmission of knowledge - that’s the key. You know all the stuff but you find a fun and easy way to teach it that engages the student. It helps to be interested in the how of teaching, more than the what.

    It also stops you from doing all the work, which i suspect is the biggest problem novice teachers have.... at least I know that was my error....

    My belief is that if you get them to engage from day one they don’t expect you to do it for them.... however that attitude certainly exists and is very hard to deal with. I’ve even seen it form postgrad music students. OMG!

    Not a skill set that necessarily interests a performing musician, but there’s more teaching than music in my family, so I kind of love it.

    Also there’s a wicked book called Guitar Basics that a few caveats aside, has its stuff worked out really really well. Works with one to ones, duos, groups, classrooms. Don’t know how they did it.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    It’s not transmission of knowledge
    I know, that was a bit negative and badly put. It's a lot more than that.

    It also stops you from doing all the work
    What, you mean preparing the lessons, etc? Oh, that was the bit I liked. I thought about that very carefully. No one-size-fits-all regimen either, all individually tailored.

    My belief is that if you get them to engage from day one they don’t expect you to do it for them
    Not at the very beginning, then they're dead keen, but as things progress...

    however that attitude certainly exists and is very hard to deal with. I’ve even seen it form postgrad music students. OMG!
    Absolutely. One bloke said 'This is formulaic'. I said 'Of course it is, but so was learning your letters and times tables when you were a kid. But you have to get this before you can get creative with it'. 'Oh' he said :-)

    Also there’s a wicked book called Guitar Basics that a few caveats aside, has its stuff worked out really really well. Works with one to ones, duos, groups, classrooms. Don’t know how they did it.
    I tussled for a while wondering whether to use a book. In the end I decided against it, not that there aren't good books. I felt I'd just be the mouthpiece of the book, so to speak. So I did my own lessons.

    I tell you, the stuff I've poured into people over the years... I'm quite sure most of it went unheeded. The waste!

  17. #66

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    I was going over some stuff I've learned over the past couple years this AM and as I played this Bb Blues from the Raney-Aebersold set I was noticing just how many times it uses a Maj7 idea exactly when I'd think a blues wants a dominant7 idea. I ran a quick clip just because I always like to think about theory issues with an actual piece of music in mind, and these solos were created as example pieces for intermediate players, so anyhow, hope the OP is still around and finds it helpful. I have never played a piece so instructive of so many points in such a small space!

    BIG CHANGE-this is the same video I posted previously but I have captioned each phrase with the notation which might help any who want to drill down a bit into the solo.

    Last edited by lawson-stone; 11-26-2019 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Added NOTATION to the Clip

  18. #67

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    I think, from what I've seen and heard, that a lot of players think of the 1 chord as major, even when it's plainly dominant and sounds dominant. It doesn't seem to deter them!

  19. #68

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    The melody of Dizzy Gillespie’s blues ‘Blue’n’Boogie’ has a ton of A naturals in it, in the key of Bb.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    The melody of Dizzy Gillespie’s blues ‘Blue’n’Boogie’ has a ton of A naturals in it, in the key of Bb.
    You're right, some of it's all over the place!


  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg
    it's as rubbish as anywhere else. london is better than amsterdam or hamburg? i don't think so.
    Doesn’t seem that bad?

  22. #71

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    I used to do about 200 gigs a year. A lot of travel though. Now I teach more.

    It’s not easy to make a living as a musician but I don’t recognise things as being as bad for the musicians I work with as portrayed in the study. But that’s just the people I know obv.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    I know, that was a bit negative and badly put. It's a lot more than that.



    What, you mean preparing the lessons, etc? Oh, that was the bit I liked. I thought about that very carefully. No one-size-fits-all regimen either, all individually tailored.



    Not at the very beginning, then they're dead keen, but as things progress...



    Absolutely. One bloke said 'This is formulaic'. I said 'Of course it is, but so was learning your letters and times tables when you were a kid. But you have to get this before you can get creative with it'. 'Oh' he said :-)



    I tussled for a while wondering whether to use a book. In the end I decided against it, not that there aren't good books. I felt I'd just be the mouthpiece of the book, so to speak. So I did my own lessons.

    I tell you, the stuff I've poured into people over the years... I'm quite sure most of it went unheeded. The waste!

    Me in 2009 - I shall teach each student as a precious individual and tailor my approach to them.

    Me in 2019 - great, a syllabus!

    In seriousness a book or syllabus doesn’t mean you have to deliver it unimaginatively.

    With jazz it’s more complicated.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Me in 2009 - I shall teach each student as a precious individual and tailor my approach to them.
    It wasn't quite like that! Most of it was fairly simple and one knew where they were with things so it was just a question of adding by increments. Obviously there was a lot of crossover repetition, one didn't have to start again with each one (god forbid).

    As for precious... no :-)

    Incidentally, I never did it for money. My interest was to see if they really could become better than they were at the start. But that only rarely happened, unfortunately.

  25. #74

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    Teaching is all about picking the winnable battles...

    It’s so easy to get distracted. Adults in particular have a 1,000,000 questions. But you have to choose one thing and get it right. That can be really hard sometimes. But very often one thing will impact the others....

    That’s why I respect Lawson stone’s approach so much. It’s clear and progress is definable. Improvisation is too hard, let me try and play these solos well. But in fact music isn’t as linear as everyone seem to think it is.... that sort of stuff helps other things... (but he’s a teacher himself. I wonder if that isn’t more important than knowing all the jazz theory.... how to learn things is more important than what is learned...)

    Wouldn’t work for everyone. Different strokes.... some people need to be told, here’s five notes now go and play with them and show me what you’ve got next week. Or whatever.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    How to learn things is more important
    That's the point. If one is actually learning then everything is your teacher.