The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hi everybody!!!

    I’m a beginner who is trying to learn to play jazz guitar and I wonder about the best way to learn the different comping rhythms used by jazz guitarists. I like the idea of accompany a singer or a band with different rhythms but I don’t know how to do this.

    In this moment I’m studying the book “Complete Jazz Guitar Method written by Corey Christiansen”. This book has a section about comping rhythms that is really interesting for a beginner like me, but I feel that I need extra material to master them.

    I’ve seen in Amazon a great variety of books and videos about this topic, but I’d like to know which your recommendations are.

    Thanks for your time.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    It's all in the recorded music, listen, listen, listen. Listening to pianists is almost more productive than guitar. It's really best to learn this by ear after you know how to build chords.

  4. #3

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    Well for accompanying a singer, and for small group comping, you can listen to Joe Pass and Ella Fitzgerald, and then Jim Hall with Sonny Rollins on "The Bridge" (no piano). I think you'll find that they were pretty darned active.


    So, you might try starting with the Freddie Green four-to-the-bar thing, and also with the Charleston Rhythm.

    For comping rhythms, also listen to Wynton Kelly with Miles Davis (Kind of Blue)

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by cachalote
    Hi everybody!!!

    I’m a beginner who is trying to learn to play jazz guitar and I wonder about the best way to learn the different comping rhythms used by jazz guitarists. I like the idea of accompany a singer or a band with different rhythms but I don’t know how to do this.

    In this moment I’m studying the book “Complete Jazz Guitar Method written by Corey Christiansen”. This book has a section about comping rhythms that is really interesting for a beginner like me, but I feel that I need extra material to master them.

    I’ve seen in Amazon a great variety of books and videos about this topic, but I’d like to know which your recommendations are.

    Thanks for your time.
    ‘Charleston Charleston’

    Also the push, 2+ 4+

    Also nothing wrong with playing on the 1 and 3

    Don’t know about books. Books are always a poor relation to what you can hear on records. Listen, copy. I learned a lot from Red Garland with Miles

  6. #5

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    Thank you all for your advices.

    I think that, as many of you said, the best way to learn comping rhythms is by ear, trying to imitate what great guitarist and pianists do.

    As a beginner, I've gather some material to help me to learn this, and I'd like to know if some of you have some experience with some of this material:

    - Frank Vignola - Jazz Guitar Fake book. Rhytm 1 & 2
    - Creative Comping Concepts For jazz guitar by Mark boling
    - Comping Standards For Jazz Guitar by Jim Ferguson
    - Fareed Haque's Jazz Comping Survival Guide Part 1 & 2

    Furthermore, these are the exercises that I'm practicing right now:

    How to master jazz guitar comping rhythms?-charly-jpg

    My question is what is the best way to learn and even internalize these rhythms, how do you practice these types of exercises?

    Thanks you all for your help.

  7. #6

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    If you're going to do it with books you probably need a music notation program. Type in the pattern in the book and play it in the program. Never mind how it's written, internalise the sound and keep playing it yourself. Some books come with CD's, of course.

    You can take the ideas from records or YouTube but I think you'd probably find that extremely difficult. I know I would.

    But, as someone has already said, you need to know your chords first. That's probably more important than the rhythm. If you have a good sense of timing you can probably pick up the rhythms quite quickly.

    Incidentally, not many tunes have exactly the same pattern repeating constantly all the way through. Learning how to vary the sounds within one basic rhythm is very important too.

    But in the end you won't follow any strict pattern, you'll just do it by feel. Which is always the best way, of course.

  8. #7

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    See also the videos on jazz comping on Truefire.com.

  9. #8

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    I've asked several experts how to do this. They all said the same thing. Play along with records.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by cachalote
    Thank you all for your advices.

    I think that, as many of you said, the best way to learn comping rhythms is by ear, trying to imitate what great guitarist and pianists do.

    As a beginner, I've gather some material to help me to learn this, and I'd like to know if some of you have some experience with some of this material:

    - Frank Vignola - Jazz Guitar Fake book. Rhytm 1 & 2
    - Creative Comping Concepts For jazz guitar by Mark boling
    - Comping Standards For Jazz Guitar by Jim Ferguson
    - Fareed Haque's Jazz Comping Survival Guide Part 1 & 2

    Furthermore, these are the exercises that I'm practicing right now:

    How to master jazz guitar comping rhythms?-charly-jpg

    My question is what is the best way to learn and even internalize these rhythms, how do you practice these types of exercises?

    Thanks you all for your help.
    Just repeat one bar for a whole chorus, using the changes. Then go to another one.

  11. #10

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    One of the things that came to me realtively late about comping... that rythmically it is also being improvized... it is ok to study some patterns ...
    but mostly in actual context... if you listen a lot you are prabably able to sing 'comping rythm' for tune... right?

    the idea is to find a way for it on guitar... (I can't say i really did it myself - I do not play that much with others unfortunately.. but I try to)

    Generally in all these books they try to reconstruct this 'improvizational spirit' on random priciple...
    and that was a problem for me when I tried... it sounded random.... I heard no rythmic logics in it.

    When you play a real tune you do different choices but it is not random...


    So my idea whe you use written patterns - practice just one pattern for many bars... then another for many bars... just to hear and incorporate this pattern as a unit in respect to the general pulse...

    But mixing them all... it is better to create on your own...

  12. #11

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    You learn comping by listening and learning songs, not exercises and patterns.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    You learn comping by listening and learning songs, not exercises and patterns.
    yes and most of all by comping to someone)))

  14. #13

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    Reg has some good videos demonstrating his comping, which is excellent.

    Pay close attention to his time-feel.

  15. #14

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    The amount of rhythmic improvisation in much effective comping is overrated

  16. #15

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    Yeah I think this thing that ragman said is basically sums up the problem I have with the way jazz swing feel is taught, which is that the foundations of the groove are not taught before they tell everyone to go off and improvise.

    No. It's not spasmodic. It's specific. (It's the kind of thing that makes jazz drummers who think swing feel is an indistinct spang-alang with occasional 'spasmodic' comping on the snare. This is not what good jazz drumming is.)

    And you will vary the style and rhythmic content of your comping dependent on context... but playing a sparse but happening groove is always a good start IMO.

    The function of comping is accompaniment. Your aim is to make the soloist sound good by framing what they do, if necessary give them support (this is not usually necessary for professional soloists) and contribute to a sense of groove. Creating a sense of counterpoint of dialogue with the soloist is possible within this... But you have to be good at doing the basic stuff.

    If you start off listening to something like this:



    You might miss the foundation of what Jim Hall is doing. Anyway listen to Jim comp from about 1 minute in. He is comping 'spasmodically' but what he is doing is anchored in a basic groove, that goes back a long way in jazz.

    1 2 3 4 | 1 2 + 3 4 |

    But you have to know what the basic groove is to be able to do this. Anyway bear in mind Jim was revolutionary for playing the guitar like a piano.

    These patterns that Red plays on the Miles Davis sides are pretty essential building blocks.



    Here Red is often on the + of 2 and 4 - these can also be understood as pushes of 1 and 3... This is a characteristic rhythm, and its pretty set, although he does vary it. That's why Red is often used as a model when trying to teach comping. You can also hear Jim use this pattern a few times in the Sonny Rollins track. All this stuff is on your sheet.

    For this reason, I often suggest starting comping in 2 and then add pushes in to vary the basic pulse. Once you get good at that, you can start to incorporate other elements.

    People who can comp really well interactively are very very good at comping. How do you get there? You get there by assimilating a musical vocabulary of rhythms. That worksheet is a good start actually, I'd choose similar ones myself.

    You could do a lot worse than following the historical evolution of comping in jazz. A lot of that is going to be in the piano, but the guitar used to have a specific function that went well into the 1950s which was to play straight fours 'freddie green style'

    Bottom line is, you don't learn jazz in your practice room. You learn it on the bandstand. If you want to get on the bandstand your best option is to aim to feel good to play with. I can only speak for myself but I'd rather play with someone who plays simple patterns well but might be a little locked in rather than someone who tries to improvise and plays out of time. Wish I'd know that 20 years ago when learning how to 'comp'.

    (In a duo this is more so. You can get a lot of mileage out of playing simpler, clearer grooves.)

    As you develop more skill you can aim to be more interactive and more improvised.

    To be brutally honest, most guitarists are not great at comping. I don't think I'm great BTW, but I have to say there are otherwise very good players out there making basic errors with this stuff, and one of the biggest is just not respecting the rhythmic side of it enough.

  17. #16

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    I think comping is best done with some sort of rhythm section behind. Comping isn't the same as maintaining a steady rhythmic pace like strumming a folk song or a blues shuffle; by nature it's spasmodic so you need something else too even if it's only a single beat.

    But, of course, it can be done if you're really good, and probably playing with someone else who's really good too.

  18. #17

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    Sorry, Christian, I edited that without seeing your post. It's appeared after the fact!

    No. It's not spasmodic. It's specific.
    Yes, it's specific to the rhythm but it's not a mechanical 1-2-3-4 thing. Well, not proper jazz comping. You know what I mean!

    playing a sparse but happening groove is always a good start IMO.
    Absolutely.

    basic errors with this stuff, and one of the biggest is just not respecting the rhythmic side of it enough
    Yes, it's got to swing and stay in the pocket however sparse.

  19. #18
    Good comping is not spasmodic.

  20. #19

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    Sounds spasmodic to me because it comes in at irregular intervals.

    Bernstein is not playing a regular pattern.


  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Sounds spasmodic to me because it comes in at irregular intervals.

    Bernstein is not playing a regular pattern.

    Oh look, world class jazz guitarists being world class.

    Sorry what was the relevance to pedagogy?

  22. #21

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    Actually listen closely to Peter, and you do hear a lot of the stuff that I've been talking about. A lot of his comping is based around 1 and 3 and he also pushes those two beats.

  23. #22

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    Here's a blues by the Oscar Peterson Trio with Herb Ellis. (When Herb was with the band there was no drummer.) This is a Wes Montgomery tune. Anyway, you can hear Herb's comping for Oscar's solo and how he often plays simple patterns in a varied, rhythmic way to drive or to lay back. Herb was great at this. What he is doing is not that hard. (Doing it as well as he does "in the moment" is another matter.)

    For some reason, YouTube has this as "Wampton Blues." It's "Naptown Blues."


  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Bernstein is not playing a regular pattern.
    I'd swap the word "pattern" for rhythm maybe.

    There's a strong – weak pattern there. It conveys the form. It implies basic 2- or 4-measure phrases. it's based around standard dotted quarter note " patterns" as well. The repeating macro rhythmic element is certainly there.

    If you're talking about the fact that he's NOT playing the Charleston in each individual measure or something , that's true , but mostly beside the point. Labeling anything which ISN'T a robotic repetition of something (like a Charlston in each measure) as "spasmodic" isn't really helpful to beginners asking this kind of question. It's a little bit too much like the kind of superstitious, Jazz mysticism that's abundant in non-jazz players minds anyway.

    I don't hear music like that as having "no pattern". I don't hear it as being spasmodic . If anything, it's probably more HIGHLY organized, maybe beyond some of our ability to comprehend in the same way.

  25. #24

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    Comping is still playing phrases, with a rhythm and a melody line on the top note. It's part of the jazz vocabulary, whether played by a soloist, comping instrument or drummer.

    For a hands on exercise, i like to listen to pianists on classic records, find a phrase I like, then comp throughout the whole tune with its rhythm. Then practice with another one. Slowly your vocabulary builds up and starts involving longer phrases.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    it's probably more HIGHLY organized, maybe beyond some of our ability to comprehend
    What, like GOD or something?

    All right, forget spasmodic, try irregular.

    I know it's organised, I do it myself, but if you're doing it by feel there's no particular pattern. Which doesn't mean you lose the beat, quite the contrary.