The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #176

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    [QUOTE=grahambop;989358]

    In the video as I recall he said Fm7 = Ab6? Not Cm7.
    Sorry, yes. But it's the same thing. If it's in Eb then Fm is the ii chord. I thought, on the scale, the ii chord was a dim. That's what your chart shows.

    I am sorry if I wasn’t able to communicate the basic concept to you, I honestly don’t think I can do anything further
    You have communicated it, very well, and I'm grateful, thanks.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #177

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    Duh yes Fm7 not Cm7 = Ab6

  4. #178

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    [QUOTE=ragman1;989362]
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop



    Sorry, yes. But it's the same thing. If it's in Eb then Fm is the ii chord. I thought, on the scale, the ii chord was a dim. That's what your chart shows.



    You have communicated it, very well, and I'm grateful, thanks.
    Yes so while (and only while) the chord is Fm7, you play chords from the relevant 6/dim scale FOR THAT Fm7 CHORD, which is the Ab6/dim scale.

    You DON’T play the second chord of Eb6/dim scale just because the key is Eb.

    Each chord usually takes a different 6/dim scale. They don’t all follow the same 6/dim scale that the key uses.

    Now I have said it 1001 times.

  5. #179

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    Assuming you know most the substitutions (4 uses for minor 6, 3 uses for major 6 at least) and can play those scales in drop 3 and drop 2 easily on all string sets. Let's even assume you can borrow masterfully to suit your own taste.

    In Alan's book alone you're missing Long-short, expand and contract, four note chords in tenths, Borrowing from the diminished scale, surrounding, Monk Moves, major to minor to minor with the 6th in the bass (less complicated than it sounds), Home and away movements, dominant 7 dimished scale, b5 diminished scale, the 3 diminished chords and their implications

    Other concepts include MAJOR SCALE CYCLING (not 6th dim), using related dominants (you got hung up on no vanilla dominant in the 6th dim scale for some reason), whole tones, The blues/rhythm move Alan taught me in E-mail (and taught in the Howard Reese workshop I went to)

    You're getting hung up on a small part of what he teaches (and to be honest, you're not really getting that yet) and calling it an incomplete theory

  6. #180

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    Each chord usually takes a different 6/dim scale. They don’t all follow the same 6/dim scale that the key uses.

    Now I have said it 1001 times.
    Oh, god, have you? Sorry. Well, even worse, then :-)

  7. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758

    You're getting hung up on a small part of what he teaches (and to be honest, you're not really getting that yet) and calling it an incomplete theory
    You might be right :-)

  8. #182

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    You wordy Brit scribes must think you owe it to Shakespeare to write as many words before you die to prove you have a worthy thought. Seemed like a good thread to post that observation. Turn everything into a boring essay. Don't have to defend every idea about an artform with no rules. Jazz is not proper, so get over it. :-)
    Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 11-17-2019 at 02:35 AM.

  9. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    You wordy Brit scribes must think you owe it to Shakespeare to write as many words before you die to prove you have a worthy thought. Seemed like a good thread to post that observation. Turn everything into a boring essay. Don't have to defend every idea about an artform with no rules. Jazz is not proper, so get over it. :-)
    Bollocks

  10. #184

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    yeah let’s stick to discussing pickups and strings all day.

  11. #185

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    yeah, bollocks!

  12. #186

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    Gonads

  13. #187

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    Arse

  14. #188

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    And people think jazz is boring.

  15. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    You wordy Brit scribes must think you owe it to Shakespeare to write as many words before you die to prove you have a worthy thought. Seemed like a good thread to post that observation. Turn everything into a boring essay. Don't have to defend every idea about an artform with no rules. Jazz is not proper, so get over it. :-)
    Partly my doing, cosmic, because I asked about Barry Harris' ideas. But it's just the last two pages and certainly not limited to Brits.

    Incidentally, since your PMs are turned off, how's your health? Without wishing to be indelicate.

  16. #190

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    As for the rest of you -

    After that bombardment I thought I'd let the brain absorb the info for a while. Always works.

    Came up with a thought or two - not that I want to bore anybody - and an experiment.

    Basically the thoughts were that the main benefit of all this is obviously in chord melody, not that I do a lot of that. I prefer playing notes over chords. I prefer it, it suits me.

    It strikes me that, in many ways, this is very similar to the way of filling out, say, a couple of bars of the same chord with inversions and dim chords, like G//Am/Bbo - G/B for 2 bars of G. It's more complex than that, or can be made more complex.

    So I did an experiment, which was interesting. I put down the progression

    Am7/D7 - Gm7/C7 - FM7

    and then reharmed it as

    C6/Ebo - Bb6/Dbo - F6

    It's not a vast reharm of chord movements, just to see what flavours the use of 6 and dim chords gave to it soloing-wise.

    I played something diatonic over the first Am7/D7 one, keeping to the chords, and then saw how that sounded over the reharm. Fitted nicely.

    Then I put in some usual b9 and alt subs over the first Am7/D7 one and they fitted nicely too.

    Then I played over the reharm, keeping to those chords, and did the same again. Also with subs like using dim runs and harmonic minors over the dims and usual stuff over the 6s (not deserting M7 sounds either). Also subbing the 4 possible dominant chords for each dim.

    Obviously all that fitted, but then I played them all back over the first Am7/D7 progression. And they all fitted very nicely too.

    So basically these reharms and substitutions work together. Perhaps not unsurprisingly, I don't know. There's also all the stuff that Joe listed out that I haven't done yet.

    If anyone has any thoughts/insights into single-note playing that would be interesting.

  17. #191

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    How about:

    Am7/D7 - Gm7/C7 - FM7

    and then reharmed it as

    C6o/Ebm6o - Bb6o/Dbm6o - F6o
    Last edited by A. Kingstone; 11-17-2019 at 07:05 PM.

  18. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
    How about:

    Am7/D7 - Gm7/C7 - FM7

    and then reharmed it as

    C6o/Ebm6o - Bb6o/Dbm6o - F6o
    You're confusing me. Why introduce yet another reharm? I was testing notes that work for the Am7/D7 thing against the simple reharm I did.

    Why have you turned all the maj6s into diminished chords? Diminisheds instead of majors? Since when did a tune end on a diminished chord?

    Or are you saying a dim6 (6o) is a chord? If it is, it's new to me!

  19. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    You're confusing me. Why introduce yet another reharm? I was testing notes that work for the Am7/D7 thing against the simple reharm I did.

    Why have you turned all the maj6s into diminished chords? Diminisheds instead of majors? Since when did a tune end on a diminished chord?

    Or are you saying a dim6 (6o) is a chord? If it is, it's new to me!
    Chord scales, not chords. See above.

  20. #194

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    C6o= C Sixth Diminished Harmonized 8 note scale

    Ebm6o - Eb Minor Sixth Diminished Harmonized 8 note scale

  21. #195

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    See post no. 171 - the term C6o (or C6dim) means the C maj sixth diminished scale of chords, exactly as illustrated in that post.

    For min6dim scale, just flat the third, no other difference.

  22. #196

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    We've had this before and I don't think I'm that dumb, to be honest. When I talked about note-scales you said 'No, chord scales'. Now I'm talking about a chord reharm and you're saying 'No, we're talking about note scales'!

    This confusion isn't my fault. All I did was reharm (a la BH idea of inversions + dim chords) the simple progression Am-D7-Gm-C7-F. I played standard lines over both sets of chords and found that everything I did fitted both very well.

    So are you telling me now that I should be using different scales? I'm NOT talking about chord melody-type playing. I said that. I'm talking about single-note lines.

    Please make it clear whether you're talking about chord voicings or single notes when you say 'scales'!!!

  23. #197

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    We are all talking about scales of chords. Not single-note scales.

    See post 171. That is what we are talking about.

    You are the one who has started talking about single-note scales. That is a different subject. BH has a different system for that.

  24. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    We are all talking about scales of chords. Not single-note scales.

    See post 171. That is what we are talking about.

    You are the one who has started talking about single-note scales. That is a different subject. BH has a different system for that.
    Correct, and my post tonight was about - and only about - single note playing. Not my fault. What post were you all answering?

    At the end of that post, which I admit was quite long, I asked:

    'If anyone has any thoughts/insights into single-note playing that would be interesting.'

    That still applies, if anyone can answer it. There's precious little on the net as far as I can see. It's all about the usual 6dim chord scale. In fact, all that has become tediously repetitive. It's as though that's all they know and as far as they've got.

    Do you know there's not one video that I've seen where they discuss 'the knowledge' and then amply demonstrate it in a convincing manner. The guy who does the 'Things I have learned' vids got to Lesson 23 and did his usual crawl around the scales, etc, without any attempt at performance. When someone asked 'Can you play it' he said - after years of studying with BH - 'No, I wasn't at that class'.

    You what? It's laughable. The tune? ATTYA. Good god.

    Harmonizing scales-untitled-jpg

  25. #199

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    Graham -

    Sorry, I'm not having a go at you. I just don't like phonies who want to be big nobs on the internet. You, I respect. You're accurate, helpful, and come up with the goods. You've done me proud on several occasions. And you're no phony. I don't forget this one, when you banged out lovely bebop. I know you weren't playing by rote, it's too long and fluent for that. And I can't think of anyone else here I've seen do it with equal ease.



    So there. Bollox, as they say

    Next page...

  26. #200

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    Damn, something's happened to that recording. Have you got the original? You better repost it, it's not something that should be lost.

    There's also your SoundCloud stuff. Blue Bossa's not a one-off.