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  1. #51
    True, but if you are unfortunate enough to have to drive in downtown Manhattan...

    Eeekk... I miss the subways--but man, nothing worse than being in an NYC subway on a hot humid day. That's definitely one rung of Hell IMHO. Especially when the A/C unit breaks down...

    "Next Stop, Waaaahhlll Street" Ding Ding

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52
    A Lesson in Rhythm for Guitarists - Jazz Guitar Today

    And there was another article about what we spoke about in another thread on rhythm

    Modular Phonetic Rhythm...Welcome Back to The Anderson Files - Jazz Guitar Today

    I quoted the guy from this article a couple of months back...

    Valuable Player Tips... From a Drummer’s Perspective - Jazz Guitar Today

    ... I think I'm taking a liking to Jazz Guitar Today, they understand the real deal. It ain't just gear and a transcription at the back of the magazine. They go even deeper (but they have that as well)

  4. #53
    Adam and Pete answered part of my question on the thread.

    I need a better mic situation...


  5. #54

    User Info Menu

    Yea....comping, one of the least understood techniques of guitarists. Keeping it simple....
    There is physical space, between when you start and when you finish. That space in jazz is usually organized with a Form. That Form usually repeats, and there is organization with the repeats. You may have intro, outro, maybe an interlude(s) etc.... yada yada... These repeats of Form, (the tune), have organization, with options of variation etc... real improv. These techniques of creating reference(s), and developing them.... Improvisation with interaction etc... with other musicians, using jazz common practice techniques.

    So skipping way too many things, and getting to Guitar comping.... And to Ires87's questions etc... and I agree... comping involves....Soloing and Phrasing, which use and involve most of the same guitar techniques.

    Most jazz musicians use some type of Harmonic References when they play.... whether they're aware of it or not.

    Staying focused on Comping.... most use chords and voicings with organizations... Most use basic Functional Harmony organization.... I Do... it's the basic starting Reference, the TONIC, DOMINANT and SUBDOMINANT labels. We generally end up with some type of rating system.... of how much movement or rest..... different chords and voicings have.... in Harmonic Contexts.... We then camouflage or animate, maybe breakdown or reinforce.... have fun and support the music etc...
    (I also use expanded applications, but you need the basics before you expand etc...)

    I use multi-functional voicings
    multi-chord label voicings
    and always some type of Lead or melodic line with series of Chord Patterns or voicings.

    This is all the guitar technical BS.... how many technical skills you have to work with and how well you can actually use them.
    very physical things... nothing new... you just need to learn and practice them with organization.

    The other aspect, which Irez may be more interested in.... the The Rhythmic organization....
    I use Harmonic Rhythm.... as the Frame work for applications of all the technical BS above. And I define and use Harmonic Rhythm as the organization of Harmonic movement or rest within in space, time.

    Simple version.... I play chord patterns within rhythmical Tonal and functional Targets. The chords, chord patterns, lead lines, any melodic movement all have rhythmic organization.

    Chords are defined by roots, Chord patterns are series of chords that imply a Tonal Target. melodic lines also imply Tonal Targets. Once a Rhythmic pattern is established.... or is recognizable as Jazz Common Practice, the rhythmic location of attacks can influence Function. You establish a Feel, a style or groove which has an established Harmonic Rhythm... that perception of a cycle in motion or repeat is the Harmonic Rhythm.

    You then do the same BS while playing.... create relationships and develop them using rhythm.... the old "roll of a musical element within a larger musical element".

    Yea there are style specific tendencies and different styles have different functional tendencies... but that's more like the technical skills you physically learn on your guitar. The different approaches of locking in and what and where to lock in etc... which is like what voicing and voice leading you want to play.... your choosing what you want to play etc...

    I'm around for a while... glad to try and answer or explain etc...

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    This is all the guitar technical BS.... how many technical skills you have to work with and how well you can actually use them.
    very physical things... nothing new... you just need to learn and practice them with organization.
    Hey Reg. Great to see you posting.

    A while back you posted something related to this . A systematic process for developing melodic voicings for each chord type ....and based on top-down , melodic scale tones for each chord. So, root and ninth, third and 11th, fifth and 13th etc. I thought it was really useful and have been applying this concept of and on, but I can't find the original post. I was wondering if you might say something about this? Maybe a video if you had time...

    Thanks,

    Matt.

  7. #56

    User Info Menu

    Yea...Hey Matt, thanks.... so yes... some simple very usable voicing technique for comping. The use of lead lines, the notes on top of chord voicings... as another aspect of comping. Once your able to play any note on top of chords... the technique becomes almost two parts... you have the lower voicing which is the basic changes and the lead line becomes a harmonic melodic figure.

    As you get better... you can have different harmonic approaches going on the same time.... either the lower voicing or the top melodic figure can start creating harmonic relationships.... the changes can get blue, modal... whatever and the melodic figure on top can become the basic reference... a repeating figure can imply the harmony.... or the reverse, the changes stay vanilla and the melodic top note figure can stretch out and expand etc...

    Some basic guidelines when using lead lines,
    Keep space between top or lead note and rest of voicing. The concept of having a lead line is different from just playing chords.... you want the lead line to have harmonic implications.... create a groove, create a feel with common harmonic sound which helps create or reinforce a style.
    So your not trying to cover up or camouflage the lead line. I sometimes use octave transposition.... once the groove or feel is established... I'll move the line or melodic figure around using Octave transposition. It's just another tool, like using rhythm to help create perception of movement... even though the line and changes basically stay the same.

    Ex. G-7
    3 X 3 3 3 X

    becomes latin, G-7 C7
    3 X 3 3 3 X
    3 X 2 3 3 X

    add lead line D F E, D F G
    3 X 3 3 3 X
    6 X 5 5 6 X
    X 3 5 3 5 X

    3 X 3 3 3 X
    6 X 5 5 6 X
    X 3 2 3 3 3 or X X 2 3 3 3

    becomes...
    3 X 3 3 3 X
    X X 8 7 6 8
    X X 2 3 3 X

    3 X 3 3 3 X
    X X 8 7 6 8
    X X 2 3 3 3
    X X X 6 6 6
    X X X 5 5 5
    X X X 3 3 3

    And I start using rhythm and I create this perception of movement, a cycle etc... which is just G-7, could be cool groove for 4 on 6 or Liberated Brother... I'm just using those tunes as example because of same key.

    So I expand this approach by using Harmonic Function as guideline for what Chord patterns, or added chord I use... and then I get more complicated etc... but it's all simple nut and bolt approach of using chords, (voicings) and lead lines for comping.

    I'll try and make a vid of a few examples...

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Chords are defined by roots, Chord patterns are series of chords that imply a Tonal Target. melodic lines also imply Tonal Targets. Once a Rhythmic pattern is established.... or is recognizable as Jazz Common Practice, the rhythmic location of attacks can influence Function. You establish a Feel, a style or groove which has an established Harmonic Rhythm... that perception of a cycle in motion or repeat is the Harmonic Rhythm.
    Ah, Reg, back to the good old days before the BS on JGF all started

    Like I said in the OP, I knew that you'd get what I was implying--sometimes labeling these not oft spoken about concepts with a language other than pure sound is... challenging.

    Peter Martin talked about the same idea in the video that I posted. When he was pondering my question, Pete finally said (paraphrased) "the rhythm kinda dictates the chord and the voicing I play". He than said "you can't decouple rhythm, from harmony, from melody--when you comp and when you solo". That's a HUGE point that most (including me) often overlook.

    I KNEW there was something related between rhythm, harmony, and melodic implication for a WHILE--but I was lost in the weeds...

    Listen to McCoy comp on anything. He weaves these long 8 and 16 bar phrases--very few comp with phrases that large because they are HARD to hear--spatially, that is, within the concept of the pulse, the time of the tune. When McCoy leads up to a cadence for a phrase, he employs rhythm, harmony, and melody to climax to the phrase.

    I think that another video example is required. I'll try:



    This would be easier to pinpoint in person... I'll give one example...

    1:50 is a harmonic destination in the tune. It's a change in the form.

    Listen to how McCoy sets up that destination.

    Listen at 1:46. I would have to go back and transcribe the rhythm and voicing here... which I can do on a later post.

    But, do you hear the build? Elvin is doing it as well.

    This is much more than, what voicings do I play, or what rhythm do I play.

    This is a unified theory of accompaniment--something that Einstein (and Einstien, he liked pickles) would enjoy. The build that McCoy employs here is a snapshot of how he approaches comping. There is an overlap of harmony, melody, and rhythm in this 4-5 second snap shot.

    And this example occurs just when Coltrane is getting started. When 'trane starts going, and I mean GOING, the rhythm section opens up and these rhythmic/harmonic/melodic phrases get larger. Here's where the 8 and 16 bar phrases really blossom.

    Matt would LOVE this parallel. Comping is like "backwards planning". In education speak, backwards planning is when you plan a school year, a unit, a week, a test, a lesson, an activity--ALL with the end in mind. What is the essential question or larger meaning you are driving towards? In comping, it's "what is that essential cadence that you are driving towards? How are you marking the form? How can you create a phrase that drives the soloist/ responds to the soloist? How do you drive the train (Coltrane, toot toot)?

    I'll try to find another example in the same tune.

    5:12... okay, it's time to focus on Elvin.

    So, at about 5:12 Elvin marks another phrase.

    Go back eight bars to 5:02ish (it's hard to pinpoint on a youtube video, I am trying my best). Elvin is building the phrase. He starts on the ride cymbal (yes, drummers comp on the ride as well as 'keep time' on it--this is what I got from my basic understanding of the trap drum) and takes it to the snare. Do you hear that rhythmic build? The tension he grafts onto the time? That's a "rising action" that builds toward the "climax".

    More to come. This topic fascinates the living shite outta me!
    Last edited by Irez87; 07-30-2019 at 11:40 AM.