The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    I wouldn't* just play a melody line straight out of the Real Book without at least having heard the tune, though. Some of what's notated is a little sketchy.

    *(OK, I probably would, but only at a jam session or something. And it wouldn't have been a tune I called. And only if there were no horn players at this particular session.)

    Edited to add: Also, if you like going the e-book route, be aware that the electronic versions of the Real Books are photos of the paper versions. Meaning that you can't change the font size. Meaning that if you're trying to use it on your phone, you're going to have trouble making it out. I lug three paper editions around. I'd much rather just bring my iPad, but it's just not legible enough.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Real Books do, iReal (the app) does not.
    Thanks,Mr. B. I was looking at getting the Real, Real Books (Paper books!)

    Doug

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    They do. Not necessarily the same text book melodies as they're penned by the original authors though and certainly not including original verses as a complete broadway published version would have but the short answer is yes.
    Melody and chords in chord symbol shorthand. They are intended to be working templates for improvisation and not detailed arranged pieces to be played note for note.
    A guideline to be taken off book ASAP.

    David
    Thanks, David. I wasn't looking for a score, only a guideline to give me a better idea of the song's chords and melody. Along with some heavy listening to performances of the song.

    Doug

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Joe
    I wouldn't* just play a melody line straight out of the Real Book without at least having heard the tune, though. Some of what's notated is a little sketchy.

    *(OK, I probably would, but only at a jam session or something. And it wouldn't have been a tune I called. And only if there were no horn players at this particular session.)

    Edited to add: Also, if you like going the e-book route, be aware that the electronic versions of the Real Books are photos of the paper versions. Meaning that you can't change the font size. Meaning that if you're trying to use it on your phone, you're going to have trouble making it out. I lug three paper editions around. I'd much rather just bring my iPad, but it's just not legible enough.
    Thanks, Joe. Yes, a guideline on paper was what I was looking for.

    Doug

  6. #30

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    Yeah, folks get riled up about Real Books, but if you use them as a guide, and still make sure to listen to the actual tune and use your ears uber alles, the Real Book can be a great resource.

  7. #31

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    There are so many real / fake series, and they all include melody and chords for a full chorus:

    The original (as far as I know) Real Book 1 and 2, published by Sher, is excellent. It is based on specific performances by jazz greats, not on the composer’s version. And they are reliable. I have the original spiral bound 2 inch thick paper versions. They were old when I bought them, now they’re ancient but they do the job very well.

    The Real Vocal Book is the worst - its treatment of chords is terrible in many places.

    The numerous fake books are somewhere in the middle in term of reliability.

    Many people love to hate these books. Real time-served pros like Jimmy Bruno often say they never learnt tunes that way. I guess they had the luxury of learning tunes from other musicians or by ear from the radio.

    But for anyone learning standards today they are the go to resource in my opinion, if used wisely. I always use them in conjunction with recordings of classic performances. I often start by going as far as I quickly can with a recording by ear, then comparing with the book.

    People often complain that the books' melodies or chords are wrong (and sometimes they are - especially the Real Vocalists book's chords). But how often do jazz players play exactly the same melody or the same chords anyway?

  8. #32

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    A lot of people put the RB down for various reasons. One is that it's better to learn tunes by ear. Another is that it's riddled with errors.

    I'm going to speak about some benefits.

    1. It standardizes things, and not every song is riddled with errors. If, as an intermediate player, I had to play only tunes everybody at the jam knew, I would not have had an opportunity to play very many tunes.

    2. When playing with intermediate players who "know" the tunes, it becomes more than an intermediate challenge to figure out what chords they're playing. I found it to be an advantage for everybody to be on the same changes. Of course, in the long run you want to be able to have good enough ears to know what everybody else is doing and respond accordingly, but not everybody can do that.

    Even now there are certain players who, when they start to play at a jam, I put my guitar down. I know that they'll be playing an idiosyncratic set of changes by memory and there's an excellent chance I won't be able to pick up on them quickly enough -- or, they'll change every chorus and there will be no way for me to know what chord they're going to play next. And, they have done what some recommend, learned by ear and played from memory. I understand that somebody with better ears might be able to make great music out of it, but I'll never be that guy, at least not reliably.

    3. Even when I know a tune, having the book in front of me doesn't hurt. Often there will be an "extra" change that I don't remember and don't hear -- so having the book results in some expansion of vocabulary. Or, I'll have a momentary brain freeze and miss a change. I have even heard one top pro says that he likes reading, even though he doesn't need to, "because it frees me up". I assumed, but never asked, that he meant not having to remember the changes allowed him to think about other things. I'd guess that applies to more advanced material.

    4. After years of doing exactly what many recommend against, i.e. face buried in the book, I eventually learned quite a few tunes. Now, when I go to jams, I don't have to read much and, it is better that way. I doubt I'd have ever done it without the RB. I wouldn't have known which tunes to focus on, many more tunes would be called, and my practice time would thereby be diluted. The RB if nothing else, is finite.

    Basically, I think the RB helps make jazz accessible to players who might not otherwise have been able to play combo jazz. It's not elite professionalism, but, to me, it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

    5. One last point. Around here, there are very few RB gigs and the better players aren't interested in them. The days where you learned a couple of hundred standards and that was it are largely over. Usually, the bands I hear are playing arrangements. Often, the leader/arranger isn't reading, but all the sidemen are.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Yeah, folks get riled up about Real Books, but if you use them as a guide, and still make sure to listen to the actual tune and use your ears uber alles, the Real Book can be a great resource.
    Yeah, but it's not like <abe simpson voice>back in the day when it was the illegal version, and the changes were wrong, but you played the wrong changes anyway, because everyone else was playing the wrong changes, and dammit, we liked it that way!</asv>

  10. #34

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    I'd love for someone to construct an irealb
    type gadget that also had the melody on it too ...
    (transposable real books !)

    Not gonna happen I know ....
    (don't bother telling my why)

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    I'd love for someone to construct an irealb
    type gadget that also had the melody on it too ...
    (transposable real books !)

    Not gonna happen I know ....
    (don't bother telling my why)
    This idea would be the greatest. I'd pay a large sum for it and it would be worth every penny!

    However, there is the old wikifonia database out there which you can download and then pull into muse software. It works great!

    I followed this a couple of years ago and couldn't live without it. Muse will take the arrangements and transpose etc etc and then print to a pdf. It really is great.

    Download for Wikifonia all 6,675 Lead Sheets! | General Arranger Keyboard Forum | Synth Zone Forums

    The database is by composer which means you have to google the composer's name first. However I just read that you can do a windows search by song title

  12. #36

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    Real Book is a valuable resource, usually notated in the key signature of the most popular version of a particular song
    which makes it easy to use, simply hum along to the song and follow the melody, but like others have said, no real "intros" or
    "outros" you have to figure out all of the ornamentation on your own, but very good tool for getting acquainted with some of the best music ever written.

    I have Real Book 1 and 2.. and also wrote a Geocache puzzle "The Real Book"... currently needs maintenance!!

    GC61GVK The Real Book (Unknown Cache) in California, United States created by papawooly

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Yeah, folks get riled up about Real Books, but if you use them as a guide, and still make sure to listen to the actual tune and use your ears uber alles, the Real Book can be a great resource.
    Yep. When did, if ever, Miles Davis ever play the actual complete original showtune melody of Autumn Leaves?

    Answer: never. They took liberties with the melody even before blowing on it.

  14. #38

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    You can find many books online that have melody lines as well as chords. Search and compare writing styles for better content.

  15. #39

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  16. #40

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    It depends on your goal.

    If you just want to get familiar with the fingerboard, the RB will help. Read everything in more than one octave.

    But, the RB won't put you in every possible key. And, it won't have a lot of more complex rhythms, double time passages and weird accidentals.

    Also, reading through the RB won't provide a check on accuracy, unless you have some way of having a computer play the melody.

    If the goal is to read big band charts, including being voiced with the horns, then you need to learn the way they do. You read something along with a section. It's rarely the melody. There are lots of hits designed by the arranger to be cool but not familiar, you have to initiate and release notes with the section, you have to count rests, and you have to read articulation marks (which the RB doesn't have at all).

    I recently came across a book by Bob Mintzer with 15 "easy" etudes which you can play along with to make sure that you have nailed the timing of the notes. It's that kind of thing. This is closer to the way the horn players learn (that and having played in a section since 4th grade).

    And, "reading" as defined by Herb Ellis, isn't being able to figure something out slowly. It's having the music abruptly put on your stand and, before you can find the first repeat, it's counted off and you're playing.

  17. #41
    I am an amateur.
    Let’s assume a friend finds Misty in my Real Book. She says: “Will you play Misty? I want to sing it.”
    I am “advanced” enough where I can play each of the chords in several ways.
    I can also spell the chords. And I can play the melody.
    But I have no strategy as to WHICH voicings I should use.
    For example: I can play Dm7, and CMaj7 in several positions.
    I seek a strategy (even just the start of a strategy) to address this too-many-choices dilemma.
    I accept that this question might be too difficult to explain in posts.
    I’ll add this:
    I recently learned Shell Voicings because of this “too many choices” frustration.
    Sorry if this is way-dumb and thank you.
    David

  18. #42

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    Lots of things... voice leading, forming and placing chords to emphasize the melody line, or emphasize progression shifts, or emphasize a particular motif, or style, or support a particular rhythm - swing, bop, ballad, bossa, blues... but in your own mind you must have a single idea of what you want as the end result.

    Your central strategy is to decide to produce a particular sound, then let the various things you know contend among each other in your mind to be selected for expression - if you first have a clear sense of what you want the song to sound like, then it just becomes a matter of selecting what most sounds like the way you want to sound, easy, natural, authentic.

    Recognizing the right sound is so much easier than trying to evaluate and eliminate many sounds - let the different sounds compete for your attention and go with the one that makes the strongest musical argument... easy to do if your desired sound is clear in your head.

  19. #43

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    One or two songs at a time. There's no point in being overwhelmed. Some songs are better chosen for beginner, intermediate, or advanced, IMO. Choose few, and wisely! After you learn one real good, then move to another, rinse- repeat.

  20. #44

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    Pick a song. It's one song at a time, like another poster said.

    Pick a voicing for the first chord of the song.

    When it's time to change to another chord find a voicing that only requires a minimal amount of movement from the first chord.

    Suppose the first chord is Dm7 and the second chord is G7. All you need to do is move one note, C to B.

    If the first chord was Cmaj7 and the second chord was Dm7, you'd move C to D, E to F, G to A, B to C.

    If the first chord was Cmaj7 and the second chord was E7, you'd be starting with C E G B and moving to E G# B D. Easiest way to do that is to move the G to G# and the C to D.

    Now, for the third chord, do basically the same thing. Minimal movement.

    Some tips:

    It's one tune at a time and you can't rush it. But, soon enough, you'll find that the chord changes you identified for one situation will apply to others.

    This is only one way to do it. It's a good way, but the ultimate test is whether you like the overall sound. So, you could do bigger movements if you like the sound. The issue is still finding one chord change at a time, always within the context of playing a song.

  21. #45

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    If you are playing as a duo with a vocalist I’d suggest focusing first on the bass voice. Try to make the bass voice line compelling enough that the vocalist could sing just to that.

    Then use your knowledge of inversions and shell voicings to add a couple of more voices between the bass and melody. Try to make each of the three voices you are playing sing like a choir. I find it easier to play this way in fingerstyle than with a plectrum.

  22. #46
    Thank you, KirkP.
    I find this very helpful and somewhat in line with what I was hoping for / expecting.
    I generally use my fingers (not a plectrum).
    Obviously, I’ll need to “arrange” tunes somewhat.
    I can’t “sight-arrange” - so my process might work something like this:
    - I look at the arrangement.
    - I see the bass movement. Perhaps that seeing will suggest a “good” set (or a couple choices) of voicings.
    - Next, I’ll study the melody.
    - Finally, I’ll harmonize my Voicings.
    What I’ve written here begins to explain how I got into Shell Voicings. Without Shell Voicings I may have quit.
    everything was too confusing. Too many notes in the voicings I chose.
    Shell Voicings allowed my to strip things down (There was too much going on in those chords I was choosing).
    For example, sight-reading chords, I would grab a 5-tone Dm7 on the 5th fret - or a 5-tone CMaj7 on the 3rd fret.
    The chart called for Dm7 and CMaj7 AND I PROVIDED THEM but I knew it was nonsense.
    So I took up Shell Voicings and Freddie Green type coucings which calmed me down because they were simple/bare tones (3 note chords).
    now I see the next hard steps.
    xase in point: A flat5 suggests a 4th note besides the shell of 1 3 7.
    Thanks

  23. #47

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    Two possibilities to address a 7b5 chord with 3 notes

    Omit the 3rd:

    C Gb Bb

    Omit the root:

    F# A# E

  24. #48

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    The b5 can be played in the bass voice. I do this often with min7b5 chords. For example in

    | Emin7b5 | A7 | Dm |

    the b5 of E is Bb, half step above the root of the next chord so can sound nice in the bass.

    Of course, if the melody includes a b5 the accompanist doesn’t need to play that note at all.

    And don’t feel compelled to keep three voices going with every chord change or to limit your accompaniment to chord tones. I try to think of the chord tones as stepping stones, but I try to feel free to approach or enclose them with scale or chromatic notes, as you might hear the middle voices doing in a choir arrangement. (I sang in a choir about 25 years ago, and I’ve always thought it gave me a little better sense of what to do with those middle voices in guitar arrangements.)
    Last edited by KirkP; 05-13-2019 at 01:29 AM.

  25. #49
    Thanks to all who have offered strategies for approaching RB tunes.
    Strategies offered seem to include;

    By the way: This exploration of mine suggests a term: “Sight-chording”, alongside “Sight-Reading”. I open Real Book. I see a tune like I Remember Clifford. I know at least one voicing (or “grip”) for each chord in the tune (so what!). But I still need to (routinely) choose a set of “logical) voicings. “Sight-chording” = a strategy for choosing chord Voicings on a new tune.

    Strategies so far:
    - Begin with bass movement. KirkP offered: “Make bass movement “compelling” enough to allow singer to sing over just that bass playing.” (This tip seems a very helpful strategy)
    - Default to Minimal Movement (MM). MM seems like a good study avenue because MM patterns will likely be highly re-usable. I’ve seen several minimal-movement ii-V-I methods were n books (especially “Rhythm Guitar” by Roger Edison).
    - Be realistic to avoid getting overwhelmed. Each tune will need study to sound good
    - Can omit root. Can even omit the 3 on chords like b5, #9, etc.
    - Allow Shell Voicings seem to be my saving-grace, use other voicings “where applicable”.

    FYI: I mostly play a steel string acoustic guitar without a plectrum andcwithout amplification. I have a “hollow-body” Ibanez with a Peavey 30 Classic tube amp, but I still haven’t used it much. I know I probably “should” if I want to play

    Finalky, when I need volume and lack amplification, I’ll use a plectrum and choose off-the-shelf, “common” (minimum 4-tone) “common” voicings (grips).

    I am grateful to JazzGuitar.be. Wonderful community. Thank you

  26. #50

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    Surprising nobody seems to have mentioned, this is where the Mickey Baker book can help, there are lessons where it says if the chords are these play this, and there is a page where he says now go get some sheet music and apply this stuff.