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  1. #1
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    Some Swing rhythm for my students



    I made this for my students to strum along to and improvise over. The first two are my own arrangements, the third and fourth from Early Jazz and Swing Songs by David Hamburger. Feel free to jam over them, if so moved. Or decry me from the rooftops for having the wrong kind of pompe!

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  3. #2
    wrong pompe.
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  4. #3
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  5. #4
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    Some Swing rhythm for my students

    I struggle mightily with bossa and manouche rhythms. I’m afraid that criticizing your playing would seem totally pompe-ous of me. ;-)



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  6. #5
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    I am enjoying the music. But the pompe looks like it could use a slight trim.

  7. #6
    Forgive me for being next to brutal ... but this isn't swing. It's "gypsy jazz," which has somewhat of a rhythmic sensibility, but which is nowhere the easy lope of real swing. Gypsy jazz reminds me of a comment that the critic, Gene Lees, made many years ago: "Jazz has a 12/8 rhythm to it, an exciting yet satisfying drive. Other kinds of music have none of that drive, simply a squared-off rhythm that just goes up and down in one place." The clipped dotted eighth-sixteenth rhythm of much gypsy jazz reminds me of that. Good tracks overall, but stylistically not swing.

  8. #7
    Well, gypsy jazz certainly swings, but it's kind of the notes between the notes that make it so. I mean, it's the same thing for American style Freedie Green rhythm...it's 1-2-3-4, but it's not...that doesn't make any sense...but the swing works because of the 1-2-3-4...or something. I try not to overthink it...

    Rob, RE: your pompe, the Django police would probably say those chords are ringing out way to long, but I still had fun jamming over All of Me a few minutes ago.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
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  9. #8
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    You guys! It's just a bit of fun. Jam along, or do your own. I've heard too many varieties of pompe to argue there is one way. And my students are well aware I'm no specialist in the genre. No teacher around here is, though there are some good players.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post

    Rob, RE: your pompe, the Django police would probably say those chords are ringing out way to long, but I still had fun jamming over All of Me a few minutes ago.
    Wish I'd heard that, Jeff!

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Wish I'd heard that, Jeff!
    Hey, maybe I'll record a little something this afternoon!
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
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    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  12. #11
    for what it's worth my comment was joke; i don't give a shit haha sounds fine
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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Hey, maybe I'll record a little something this afternoon!
    Be my guest!

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    for what it's worth my comment was joke; i don't give a shit haha sounds fine
    I knew that, Joe

  15. #14
    I think it's decent Rob, but I'd avoid temptation to accentuate 2 & 4 too much, it happens sometimes.

    More even strokes, and yes, more percussivness to the tone would help too. But otherwise cool!

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertm2000 View Post
    Forgive me for being next to brutal ... but this isn't swing. It's "gypsy jazz," which has somewhat of a rhythmic sensibility, but which is nowhere the easy lope of real swing. Gypsy jazz reminds me of a comment that the critic, Gene Lees, made many years ago: "Jazz has a 12/8 rhythm to it, an exciting yet satisfying drive. Other kinds of music have none of that drive, simply a squared-off rhythm that just goes up and down in one place." The clipped dotted eighth-sixteenth rhythm of much gypsy jazz reminds me of that. Good tracks overall, but stylistically not swing.
    I don't want to redirect this thread too much from Rob's musical contribution but I would say that a great deal of modern gypsy jazz does not swing very much. There has been a general shift in the rhythmic aesthetic toward a much more even up and down, generally faster tempos, with very clipped chords and a "dry" sound (the chords are not allowed to ring). I sometimes think these people spend too much time practicing with metronomes and drum machines and not listening to Django, Louis Armstrong etc... Personally, I don't enjoy the new style (e.g. Stephane Wrembel) - a bit too militaristic and march-like for me. If you take a listen to Django's recording of Coquette, Echoes of France, Django's Tiger it bounces and swings like a mofo:
    Tchan Tchou Vidal played in a similar way and. today, Fapy Lafertin plays in the old style.
    Last edited by Roberoo; 03-08-2019 at 07:33 PM.

  17. #16
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    Some Swing rhythm for my students

    Quote Originally Posted by Roberoo View Post
    I don't want to redirect this thread too much from Rob's musical contribution but I would say that a great deal of modern gypsy jazz does not swing very much. There has been a general shift in the rhythmic aesthetic toward a much more even up and down, generally faster tempos, with very clipped chords and a "dry" sound (the chords are not allowed to ring). I sometimes think these people spend too much time practicing with metronomes and drum machines and not listening to Django, Louis Armstrong etc... Personally, I don't enjoy the new style (e.g. Stephane Wrembel) - a bit too militaristic and march-like for me. If you take a listen to Django's recording of Coquette, Echoes of France, Django's Tiger it bounces and swings like a mofo:
    Tchan Tchou Vidal played in a similar way and. today, Fapy Lafertin plays in the old style.
    Yeah I don’t like that feel

    One reason I deny playing gypsy jazz. No swing!

    Actually I don’t really like classic Hot Club rhythm playing either lol but it’s less bad
    Last edited by christianm77; 03-09-2019 at 05:19 AM.

  18. #17
    #1
    I have to say I definitely heard gypsy there too.

    I'd have thought the simplest swung jazz rhythm was simple half or quarter beats, then add syncopation to taste. Presuming it's being played solo without a rhythm section.

    Blues is good for rhythm playing because you can legitimately slide into almost everything.

  19. #18
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    It seems you can't just have a bit of fun playing GJ. Is there any other musical style where absolutely no one agrees with anything anyone else does?

  20. #19
    Rob, I'm no expert but I think the point was that there's a difference between Gypsy swing and jazz rhythm from the Swing era. It wasn't clear which style you were demonstrating.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    It seems you can't just have a bit of fun playing GJ. Is there any other musical style where absolutely no one agrees with anything anyone else does?
    There is absolutely no fun to be had in Gypsy jazz :-)

    Unless you ignore all the bs and just play of course :-)

  22. #21
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    I was demonstrating Le Pompe MacKillop, which I executed to perfection, and enjoyed doing so.

    Anyone else who wants to say I'm not doing what they think I should be doing, should either make a video demonstration of Le Pompe MacKillop, so I can learn from you how to be me, or bugger off :-)

  23. #22
    la pompe (f)

    Sorry, Rob, I know it's not fair :-)

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    There is absolutely no fun to be had in Gypsy jazz :-)

    Unless you ignore all the bs and just play of course :-)
    People can only have fun with it once they have analyzed, codified, policed it and taken the joy out of the whole damn thing. Now get back to having fun everybody!

  25. #24
    No, shan't

  26. #25
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    Well, time to go fishing



    Sure doesn't sound like they are enjoying themselves at all.

  27. #26
    Most of the fun suckers in the gypsy jazz community need a chart to play All of Me.

    Just sayin.'
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
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    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  28. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Most of the fun suckers in the gypsy jazz community need a chart to play All of Me.

    Just sayin.'
    Nooo. Really? I never noticed. At least everyone memorized it in C!

  29. #28
    La Pompe or Swing who cares! As long as it grooves, or make you feel like dancing, or foot tapping, or headbanging. Then it's all good right?

    But start messing it up a bit, and it might sound like Polka, people get confused, what to dance?

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    Nooo. Really? I never noticed. At least everyone memorized it in C!
    I'm talking about the fun-sucking hacks, of course, not the players worth a shit
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  31. #30
    Thanks Rob -- great stuff...and free for all of us, what's not to like!

  32. #31
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    Thanks, Odel. Finally, a critic I can trust

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