The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Posts 26 to 48 of 48
  1. #26

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by znerken
    I have a slight noob question, but I wonder how you visualize the quartal voicings when you think about a scale? I tried with Dorian, and okay, there is only four different shapes on a string set, but how do you make sure you hit the right ones? Do you have some tips here?


    Thanks!
    Ahahahahahaha

    You do know the relevant dorian scale all the way along each string, right?

    Told you it was good for fretboard mapping ;-)

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Ahahahahahaha

    You do know the relevant dorian scale all the way along each string, right?

    Told you it was good for fretboard mapping ;-)
    So yes, I guess the answer is, you should practice each and every scale until you can harmonize/play it then. I just thought there perhaps there was some patterns. There’s tons of scale patterns vertically, after all :-)

  4. #28

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by znerken
    I have a slight noob question, but I wonder how you visualize the quartal voicings when you think about a scale? I tried with Dorian, and okay, there is only four different shapes on a string set, but how do you make sure you hit the right ones? Do you have some tips here?


    Thanks!
    Nothing simple, I'm afraid. You can memorize the scale degree that's on, say, the top string for a given shape.
    But, that's not how I actually did it. I learned the notes in all the major and melodic minor scales I use. So, I started thinking about individual notes. Eventually, with repetition, your fingers find the right notes and leave the linguistic part of your brain out of it.

  5. #29

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by znerken
    So yes, I guess the answer is, you should practice each and every scale until you can harmonize/play it then. I just thought there perhaps there was some patterns. There’s tons of scale patterns vertically, after all :-)
    You’ll work it out, you’re bright. There’s always patterns.

  6. #30

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Nothing simple, I'm afraid. You can memorize the scale degree that's on, say, the top string for a given shape.
    But, that's not how I actually did it. I learned the notes in all the major and melodic minor scales I use. So, I started thinking about individual notes. Eventually, with repetition, your fingers find the right notes and leave the linguistic part of your brain out of it.
    I disagree here. The brain can handle everything we, the lazy repeaters, care to put in there. Just need a good method. I remember when I first started to try and mentally "glue" the scale degree on each note on the pattern, I just went "this is the 1st, thats the 3rd". The dumbest way possible . When started to play the triads on the patterns (glue them on the pattern there), it started to make more sense and was way easier. Currently (started a few months ago) I sing and play simple tunes on the scale patterns (glue them on the pattern again) and singing the scale degree numbers. Works like magic. Should have done that 15 years ago.

  7. #31

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    You’ll work it out, you’re bright. There’s always patterns.
    That was a nice compliment!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #32

    User Info Menu

    Oh, holy macaroni. Now I remember one exercise that I figured out a year ago or so. Using some random note generator (all kinds of options there online), while it plays those notes, the practicing maniac plays chords as scale that suits with the note.. Change key of that scale for sure. This was good to get to know how your next chord would sound in advance without being restricted to one key only. Lots of freedom there.

    I guess when this gets too easy or something, some random interval generator would be the next. Less freedom then but that way inching towards the chordal freedom would be somewhat less painful.

  9. #33

    User Info Menu

    Bear in mind that some soloists (for whom you are comping, after all) will not thank you for this. They want to hear the chord progression fairly unambiguously. Channeling McCoy-Tyner's-left-hand-on-guitar stuff at them may result in some adverse reaction- if you do it, it had best make musical sense and not just be "hey, man, that's cool and hip" for the sake of cool and hip. Other soloists will dig the heck out of it and want more. So knowing your audience is important.

  10. #34

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    Bear in mind that some soloists (for whom you are comping, after all) will not thank you for this. They want to hear the chord progression fairly unambiguously. Channeling McCoy-Tyner's-left-hand-on-guitar stuff at them may result in some adverse reaction- if you do it, it had best make musical sense and not just be "hey, man, that's cool and hip" for the sake of cool and hip. Other soloists will dig the heck out of it and want more. So knowing your audience is important.
    The trane digged it :-)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #35

    User Info Menu

    Recommended recordings where you can clearly hear the pianist using the quartal to get movements? I am currently listening to




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #36

    User Info Menu

    The main questions should be: what makes it move... mostly the same old thing ' tension-release agins harmonic rythm'

    (For exmple playing just invesions make no movement to my ear, but making bass line through the inversions can create a movement etc.)

    so all we need is to hear that it fits original harmony sounds (maybe extends and ornaments but still fits) and what is makeing tension-release and where...

    actually it could be one does not need so many tools...

    My main problem is the sound I want to hear and its organization.. tools are fin and fun to try but they do not always make a sound I want to hear.

  13. #37

    User Info Menu

    [QUOTE=znerken;921627]The trane digged it :-)

    And how many people are you going to get to play with who have ears like that? Trane was one of the most skilled musicians ever. For most of us, the people we get to play with are not on that level. If you get to play with folks like that, my hat's off to you.

  14. #38

    User Info Menu

    [QUOTE=Cunamara;921921]
    Quote Originally Posted by znerken
    The trane digged it :-)

    And how many people are you going to get to play with who have ears like that? Trane was one of the most skilled musicians ever. For most of us, the people we get to play with are not on that level. If you get to play with folks like that, my hat's off to you.

    Well, my teacher, who studied with Jim Hall. He is the one who showed it to me. He is a great comper, and use it all the time.

  15. #39

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    You’ll work it out, you’re bright. There’s always patterns.

    I think I found one way that makes it very easy for me. So I have 5 positions for major scale. I just mapped two of the Quartal voicings underneath each 5 position. Want to play a mode, think of the parent major scale(which is how Barry does it).


    Want to harmonize melodic minor, do the exact same. I have 5 positions to play melodic minor in.


    Want to harmonize pentatonic? The exact same, 5 positions.



    Seems to work rather good.

  16. #40

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by znerken
    I think I found one way that makes it very easy for me. So I have 5 positions for major scale. I just mapped two of the Quartal voicings underneath each 5 position. Want to play a mode, think of the parent major scale(which is how Barry does it).


    Want to harmonize melodic minor, do the exact same. I have 5 positions to play melodic minor in.


    Want to harmonize pentatonic? The exact same, 5 positions.



    Seems to work rather good.
    Good stuff :-)

  17. #41

    User Info Menu

    interesting thread, with a lot of great advice!

    I'll offer an approach that is a bit different but may be useful: do some arrangements for a big band. specifically, harmonize the melody and write comping figures for the other horns.

    you can use a lot of the approaches in this thread to generate this kind of material. you can also write counter-melodies and harmonize those.

    I'm suggesting this because it's really hard to write accompaniment for horn players and *not* include a significant amount of interesting harmonic motion. And the best accompanists absolutely take something from big band arranging in this regard.

  18. #42

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by pcsanwald
    interesting thread, with a lot of great advice!

    I'll offer an approach that is a bit different but may be useful: do some arrangements for a big band. specifically, harmonize the melody and write comping figures for the other horns.

    you can use a lot of the approaches in this thread to generate this kind of material. you can also write counter-melodies and harmonize those.

    I'm suggesting this because it's really hard to write accompaniment for horn players and *not* include a significant amount of interesting harmonic motion. And the best accompanists absolutely take something from big band arranging in this regard.
    Good point!

    I think this connects to the wider point that it’s really good to write stuff. Improvisation and composition/arranging have a really intimate relationship.

    We sometimes get a bit over purist about the idea of being true improvisers, but purism is pretty much always for chumps.

  19. #43

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Good stuff :-)
    Damn, just realized I forgot the inversions. That would mean 4 inversions for each position, if you used three note voicings. For four notes I guess not all of them are as usable. Anyway, I guess one could start with the “standard” ones, which I guess is closed voicings. 14 voicings there just for major. Then melodic minor. I think inversions will have to wait....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #44

    User Info Menu

    Things get out of hand very quickly. Combinatorics.

  21. #45

    User Info Menu

    Quite a few of them inversions turn out to be useless (some 7th chords sound bad, some are uncomfortable). But still worth to go through all of them to see whats what.

    Also, if it goes under the topic of "movement" - the inversions themselves ain't the best to jump around. Because they tend to jump with larger than 2nd intervals with the top note. That goes against good voice leading or.. rather this can be irritating to soloist while moving "too much".
    ... but surely they are worth remembering. Because the good voice leading need the inversions combined with other inversions and whatnot. That's a rather big topic to tackle.

  22. #46

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I think this connects to the wider point that it’s really good to write stuff. Improvisation and composition/arranging have a really intimate relationship.
    You know, I recently read Wayne Shorter's biography and it's clear he spent a *ton* of time writing, and that that has had a non-trivial impact on his improvising. I know that when I'm writing a lot, it definitely influences my improvising (usually in a very positive way).

    For no particular reason I've never really gotten into writing jazz solos, but a lot of people do this. But yeah, I think doing things like big band writing and writing tunes and playing other instruments is perhaps undersold as a means of improvement.

  23. #47

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by pcsanwald
    You know, I recently read Wayne Shorter's biography and it's clear he spent a *ton* of time writing, and that that has had a non-trivial impact on his improvising. I know that when I'm writing a lot, it definitely influences my improvising (usually in a very positive way).

    For no particular reason I've never really gotten into writing jazz solos, but a lot of people do this. But yeah, I think doing things like big band writing and writing tunes and playing other instruments is perhaps undersold as a means of improvement.
    I can believe it.

    IIRC Miles Davis described Wayne as a ‘real composer’ and mentioned the way he would write not only the melody and chords but bass lines and so on. He might not have studied composition formally like Herbie Hancock, but he certainly sunk in the hours.

    Personally I haven’t written solos, but I do write heads. I also write a lot away from the guitar, either at the piano, notation software or by ear to manuscript which is of course great for the ears.

  24. #48

    User Info Menu

    For those on Facebook, Barry Greene hosted a master class on his "five position study" lesson earlier today. He talks a lot about comping and creating movement. Lots of good stuff here:

    Facebook