Fareed Haque's Jazz Comping Survival Guide - Study group

[znerken]

I just wanted to ask before I start, if anyone was up for a study group on this? I have had tremendous effect of the study group on the Modern Method for guitar book, so I was hoping someone would join in on this? Preferably Fep, he did a great job last time.





Throw your big jazz chord dictionaries out the window, forget everything you know about jazz comping, take a deep breath and buckle up -- you're about to blaze through four years of undergraduate jazz guitar studies, two years of jazz grad school and a thousand gigs worth of experience in roughly four and half hours of interactive mind-meld with one of the most prolific, inventive, erudite and switched-on guitarists on the planet.

Jazz Guitar Lessons - Jazz Comping Survival Guide - Fareed Haque

[morroben]

I might be interested. I have the course, but I have never done one of the study groups before.

[Kevin]

I would be interested as well. I did this course a few years ago and it is very good. I would be good for me to do it again.

[znerken]

Great feedback! I'll send Fep a message, let's hope he is in as well He would be a great addition to the group.

[DbMajor]

I might be in - a couple quick questions as a new guy on the forum...

1. How do the study groups actually work? Based on a couple other posts, seems like a place to ask questions / post a recording in order to create a sense of obligation and remain focused?
2. Do you think this is a good place to start if you have never played in a jazz setting?
3. If I am a banjo player instead of guitar, anyone going to have a problem with me trying to keep up? (There are not many jazz-focused banjo forums! Ha)

[jasaco]

...If I am a banjo player instead of guitar, anyone going to have a problem with me trying to keep up? (There are not many jazz-focused banjo forums! Ha)

Well, I'm a pedal steel player and participated in the Frank Vignola Rhythm Changes Study Group a year or two ago. They didn't beat me up too badly and tolerated me pretty well. I actually sent a link to a few of my videos to Frank who got a kick out of hearing his solos rendered on pedal steel. Go for it. Bela Fleck had to start somewhere, right?

[Jhui]

I'm also interested of study group, since my comping skills needs work.

[DbMajor]

Well, I'm a pedal steel player and participated in the Frank Vignola Rhythm Changes Study Group a year or two ago. They didn't beat me up too badly and tolerated me pretty well. I actually sent a link to a few of my videos to Frank who got a kick out of hearing his solos rendered on pedal steel. Go for it. Bela Fleck had to start somewhere, right?

Sounds like a plan - I'll check out the Youtube example videos this weekend before buying as it should be straight forward to lift his concepts and put them on the banjo... less strings = easier right?? ha...

Also - you mentioned them so now I am curious - where are those videos?!

[Jhui]

I would be interested as well. I did this course a few years ago and it is very good. I would be good for me to do it again.

Can you tell more about your experiences of the course/material? how long did it take for you to go thru the course?

[rlrhett]

I worked through this course also. I don’t actually play with other musicians much, so I didn’t progress much on my comping. But I think it’s a good course. I would be up for shedding this material again.

The most successful study groups take a segment of work, have everybody shed it for a week or month, and post videos of our results before moving forward to the next segment.

The key to the material, I think, is to not be seduced by how simple and easy Fareed makes it seem. To get mileage out of it we should go slowly and really lay the foundations before moving forward.


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[Kevin]

I likely worked on the course a little bit each day for a month or two. I didn't do all the exercises. Some at the end got a bit difficult, but they are likely worth the effort. There is a comping etude towards the end that I learned and got a lot from. If I recall correctly, I think the tune is Have you Met Ms Jones.

The class is well organized and easy to understand and work though. The information is presented in a reasonable pace and is not overwhelming. Overall I think my comping improved a lot from the class.

[joe2758]

ill play along with this group if someone kicks it off

[Jhui]

So it looks like we we have plenty of interest here. Znerken, will you set up the study group? maybe better location for group is in the comping, chords and chord progressions section.

[znerken]

I have spent a lot of time with the course, and I am not too fond of it to be honest. It doesn't talk anything about rhythm, for example? Neither about how you should react to the soloist. Could be that this is later material. However, for me, it seems very sparse in information all over. Voice leading isn't mentioned once. Information that is very important to be a good comper. So based on this I began a search for something better, and I stumbled upon Jazz Guitar Comping by Andrew Green. It's a whole different world. I really like the book so far. So I am not quite sure? It doesn't seem like Fep was too interested in the truefire course. The book is full of great information.





Of course, if anyone want to take lead and start the study group on the true fire course, then I won't stop anyone. I would probably check in and see if you get any good from the course.


Here's the content of the book:

[morroben]

Well if anyone is still up for doing a study group for the Fareed Haque course, I'm in.

[AlsoRan]

Its been a few years since I used Fareed's Comping survival course, but there are a few observations that I seem to remember him saying.

1) I thought I heard him say that by using the principle of keeping the 3rds and 7ths on the 3th and 4th strings, you automatically have good voice leading. If this memory is true, then he probably does not need to mention it any further since it is built into the technique.

2) He gives many demonstrations to copy and from which to glean various rhythms and comping riffs that you can use in your own personal comping style.

3) As with many other courses, I did not go through it to the end (a constant habit of mine) but I was still able to learn some principles that I use. I like to get a basic chord, and then learn some related chord tones on strings one and two, then I jump back and forth using those tones to make little chord riffs that I enjoy and that sound pretty good (at least to me)

4) It is a "Survival Guide" rather than a comprehensive course on comping, yet it gives you some great basics to work with and at least in my case, insights that I did not have.

5) As far as fep goes, he has contributed quite a bit to this forum through the years and I recall the joy and the abuse that accompanied his unselfish sharing. (You know how forums can get - "No good deed will go unpunished ) I am thinking he probably does not need the hassle of leading another study group, and also, he has advanced and moved on to a different stage in his guitar journey - a stage that seems to keep him busy enough.

Good luck to all. The course can be a lot of fun, but at least for me, time consuming beyond what I can give - and the ol' brain just ain't retaining stuff like it used to!

[Doublea A]

I have spent a lot of time with the course, and I am not too fond of it to be honest. It doesn't talk anything about rhythm, for example? Neither about how you should react to the soloist. Could be that this is later material. However, for me, it seems very sparse in information all over. Voice leading isn't mentioned once. Information that is very important to be a good comper. So based on this I began a search for something better, and I stumbled upon Jazz Guitar Comping by Andrew Green. It's a whole different world. I really like the book so far. So I am not quite sure? It doesn't seem like Fep was too interested in the truefire course. The book is full of great information.





Of course, if anyone want to take lead and start the study group on the true fire course, then I won't stop anyone. I would probably check in and see if you get any good from the course.


Here's the content of the book:

I have both the Fareed TrueFire DVD and the Andrew Green Book. I don’t think that I have too far into either one. I would like to do a comping study group but I am not sure if I would base it on either of the pieces mentioned or something else. Secondly, I am too many study groups right now as it is.

Having said that, I am willing to do a little research into starting a group because I think that it is an important part of the process.


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[MarkRhodes]

I have this course (Fareed Haque's True Fire course, not the Andrew Green book) and would join in if it gets going.

[rlrhett]

Nobody seems to want to take on the role of Study Group leader, and the OP even apparently has abandoned the study group before it starts. I certainly don't want to take on the responsibility, but I think anyone who wishes to improve on shaky comping skills would benefit from this course. The course is laid out quite logically and simply:

1. Start by comping with guide tones.
1b. Explore substitutions with the guide tones.
2. Add a bass line.
3. Add a fourth top voice (he calls it an "extension")
4. Add a second top voice
5. Apply to a standard


Each of these segments could easily be a month of study. No, he doesn't talk about rhythm. I suggest the Mike Longo material for that. No, using just guide tones is not how you would probably comp in a live situation; and yes it is musically boring. But so is running scales or practicing arpeggios. His pedagogy is that you start with the simple core until it is very very familiar. Then add a bass, which in and of itself could be a long exploration. Then add voices. Do that, and I believe you will find yourself a competent comper. That said, just try comping two voices with iReal (piano turned off) and you can see it is actually pretty musical.

For anyone interested in a study group I would suggest essentially following each of those 5 topics a month at a time. Start with a "before" video and end with an "after" video each month.

Note that he presents the whole methodology on a standard dominant blues and then does an abbreviated presentation for other major progressions. He does not present any minor progressions or Barry Harris style progressions.

I would further suggest that a Study Group simply apply the 2 voice -> 3 voice -> 4 voice method to any standards you want including whatever progressions you are interested in. For some that is going to be the simple dominant blues. For others, Rhythm Bridge or iii-VI7-ii-V7-I or m6/dim.

Month 5 could be comping on a standard of your choice.

That curriculum would be great for me, but I admit comping isn't my focus right now. However if others would like to join in doing that and would like to commit to 5 months of the course I will add my hat in.

[znerken]

Nobody seems to want to take on the role of Study Group leader, and the OP even apparently has abandoned the study group before it starts. I certainly don't want to take on the responsibility, but I think anyone who wishes to improve on shaky comping skills would benefit from this course. The course is laid out quite logically and simply:

1. Start by comping with guide tones.
1b. Explore substitutions with the guide tones.
2. Add a bass line.
3. Add a fourth top voice (he calls it an "extension")
4. Add a second top voice
5. Apply to a standard


Each of these segments could easily be a month of study. No, he doesn't talk about rhythm. I suggest the Mike Longo material for that. No, using just guide tones is not how you would probably comp in a live situation; and yes it is musically boring. But so is running scales or practicing arpeggios. His pedagogy is that you start with the simple core until it is very very familiar. Then add a bass, which in and of itself could be a long exploration. Then add voices. Do that, and I believe you will find yourself a competent comper. That said, just try comping two voices with iReal (piano turned off) and you can see it is actually pretty musical.

For anyone interested in a study group I would suggest essentially following each of those 5 topics a month at a time. Start with a "before" video and end with an "after" video each month.

Note that he presents the whole methodology on a standard dominant blues and then does an abbreviated presentation for other major progressions. He does not present any minor progressions or Barry Harris style progressions.

I would further suggest that a Study Group simply apply the 2 voice -> 3 voice -> 4 voice method to any standards you want including whatever progressions you are interested in. For some that is going to be the simple dominant blues. For others, Rhythm Bridge or iii-VI7-ii-V7-I or m6/dim.

Month 5 could be comping on a standard of your choice.

That curriculum would be great for me, but I admit comping isn't my focus right now. However if others would like to join in doing that and would like to commit to 5 months of the course I will add my hat in.

I never wanted to lead the study group. I haven’t left it either. I am all up for putting the time in, but I want to invest the correct way. I have corresponded with Fep, and sent him the book, and the truefire course. Personally, I think the book look way better, but that’s my personalized opinion. If fep starts a study group on the book, I will follow him. If he decides to do one on the truefire course, I guess I even follow him there. Perhaps then someone can show me that the course is good :-)


Anyway, if it is becoming better at comping anyone here wants to, then it shouldn’t matter what we potentially choose. The book is available at Mel Bay digitally. I think if Fep decides to do a study group, one will learn a lot anyways.


The truefire course tries to be so simple, that it ends up with way too little information. That’s just my opinion. I also tried to reach the author, both on email and in discussion on the page without success.

[rlrhett]

I'm not sure why Fep has to do it. I think it was said already that he has a lot on his plate. If you want a study group, just do it. I won't be a hypocrite. This would be my "before" video as set out in my suggested syllabus. Anyone want to join in I'll do an "after" at the end of the month. If not, no worries.

This is just guide tones right off of the RealBook. The third chorus (@1:20) is a little more lively.

[v281]

Newbie here, have Truefire streaming subscription and was intrigued by Fareed's course.
Would be interested in following along and participating in the study group if this gets off the ground - have subscribed to the thread for starters :-)

[Jhui]

I'm fine with either material as a basis of study group. Although I prefer books over videos and Green book seems to cover more than Fareed course. But I don't have either of them yet. So, do we need a poll or maybe two study groups?

[znerken]

I'm fine with either material as a basis of study group. Although I prefer books over videos and Green book seems to cover more than Fareed course. But I don't have either of them yet. So, do we need a poll or maybe two study groups?

I am very in for a study group of the book. I have been practicing II-V-I rythm stuff from the book the last days, real great stuff. They book is very leaned towards you comping like you solo. Not by following static rythms. I think the only disadvantage of the book is that there isn't always clear exercise to practice, so as a group we could probably create a good one together. I would prefer if someone with a better skill level than me could lead the group though. That's why I initially mentioned @Fep. If anyone else can step up, I would be very grateful

[znerken]

Here's one example from the anticipation/delay part: