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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I always use it as a V7, so the name is correct for how I use it.
    Sure. At least this voicing has b5 and b9 in it.

    I had a college professor who was irritated about the fact that some theoreticians a few decades ago would say that Ab7 to G "is always wrong". That it should always be respelled as some sort of D7 to be "correct", even for straight up , vanilla Ab7.

    I'd tend to think that there's a distinction between how something is "used" or how it "functions", but that kind of thought process is mostly personal/individual.

    Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 07-26-2018 at 01:04 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Ab7 being spelt as an augmented 6th presumably.

    Ab C Eb F#

    I know a lot of people (jazzers) might think of that as needless abstraction,but actually when you write it out it makes sense. Gb to G is ugly and disguises the function of the chord.

    OTOH the rules of voice leading in jazz are somewhat relaxed

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I always use it as a V7, so the name is correct for how I use it.
    I was having a brain fart, because calling it Ab7 is certainly acceptable, since it's the tritone sub, duh. Same V7 function.

  5. #54

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    I'm retired with a passion for Dance Band string bass, archtop guitar and plectrum banjo, so I'd like to share my explorations of the Baker Method with anyone who may be interested.

    There's 72 pages for Mickey Baker's JG (1955) in the 1973 Clifford Essex blue cover edition. The 13-5-9 grip appears on 20 pages: 6-11,13,16,18-19,21-22,28-32,52-53,58. So he thought highly of this chord. It's the Mickey Baker chord (or the Johnny Carson chord as heard on page 13 lesson 8).


    From Mickey Baker's set of 33 grips:
    No.6 is the D13-5-9: Neck Position 4 [5b9bx7b313] (omitted root - sight the D!)
    No.7 is a GM7: Neck Position 3 [15x373] (doubled third - be in tune!)

    It's plain to see that they are sister voicings and the D13-5-9 resolves to GM7 chromatically by one semitone, except for the top two notes which are common (oblique motion). I call it the Good-Night! resolution. I can only find grip No.7 on page 28, where it's resolution appears this way as an Hollywood chord for finales/endings.


    Viewing the intervals with respect to D it's a 13-5-9. With respect to Ab it's also a 7+9 (the Stevie Ray Vaughan version of the Hendrix chord). Take your pick, depending upon whether you were thinking V Dom7th to Tonic I or the Dominant Tritone Substitution Vb (5b Sub) to Tonic I. I hear it as a Tritone Sub.


    In the key of G, the Ab is required in the bass (on the E string) for good resolution, as the bassline descends chromatically by one semitone. Which sounds full, especially in Positions 3 and 4, as I think the method was meant for guitarists playing alone, but with a string bass player or bass voices in the brass section, we'd need to talk things over first or have this bass note reflected in the chart so that everybody knows.

    And it's a desperate little chord to finger. I have to hold the guitar in the seated dance-band position with the:
    1. upper bout's top edge resting against my solar plexis,
    2. lower bout's bottom edge resting against outer part of my right thigh
    3. right forearm resting against lower bout's top edge to balance against the left hand on the fingerboard.

    Almost like the pictures on the cover of MB's Method. This tilts the fingerboard at 45 degrees for a close view of the action and the neck pointing up at 45 degrees from the floor. This also provides great RH wrist strumming action. But this arrangement allows me to "goose-neck" my left wrist, hand and fingers so that I can chord with the fingertips. (caloused finger tips only!) All chords are easier when seated this way with the guitar and "goose-neck" fingertips. Like operating Ed the sock-puppet...

    The extra trick in fingering this chord requires you to angle the index finger so that it points directly at you and not straight across the neck like a barre. This twists the hand so the pinky can barre the two top strings, giving a callous on the outer edge of the pinky. The middle finger will point up the neck more than across the neck. And the ring finger can afford to rest against the D string for muting. The ring finger will also point up the neck more than across as the hand is twisted in that direction. It almost barres the A and D string, but you don't want the D string sounding. If your palm touches the neck, then raise your "goose-neck".

    Perhaps it's important as to whether your guitar has a Gibson 1 11/16ths or a classical guitar's 1 3/4 nut-width. The narrow neck allows me to barre two strings with one fingertip while chords on the wider neck don't sound as "tight" to me and feel too far apart with the plectrum. But wider necks help with string bending. It's important to try them and get the right size for your hand.

    It still takes practice and effort, and I've found that by not using the thumb at all, I get a good sound with this chord, so use the thumb sparingly behind the neck. I prefer playing parts of chords anyways, by string set, so I avoid full barre chords and muddy 5 part harmony. Those guide tones (3/3b/7/7b/6) sound sharp and crisp in any band. This chord is a rarety and its usage does not merit the time spent or the risks of carpel-tunnel, especially for a beginning jazz guitarist. It's too big a step. I came back to it years later because I have the time now to appreciate its colour and no longer have to struggle with the basics, which are hard enough.

  6. #55

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    If you're playing through the Mickey Baker book and he says Ab7#9 then play that. It's what it's supposed to be. If MB wants to call it a D7 chord then good luck to him

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackerJackLee
    It's plain to see that they are sister voicings and the D13-5-9 resolves to GM7 chromatically by one semitone, except for the top two notes which are common (oblique motion). I call it the Good-Night! resolution. I can only find grip No.7 on page 28, where it's resolution appears this way as an Hollywood chord for finales/endings.
    So I'm not the only one who gave it a nickname. I call it "Mickey's Money Shot".

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by goinbaroke
    My hands are too small for those long-reach pinkie finger chords, should I just give up now?
    My hands are average size. I had to angle the fingers 45 degrees, especially the index...instead of parallel with the frets. Also, staying on fingertips only. Once seated, I point the neck up 45 degrees, instead of holding it like a machine gun, and angle the fingerboard 45 degrees so that I can look down onto it. This helped me immensely. I had to realise that these aren't rock chords, but big band chords. And D13-5-9 aka Ab7+9 is a rare ten-dollar Hollywood chord only applicable/useful to finales/outros. Freddie Green had a wonderful career and he stuck to one part, two part and three part chords... but see how he holds the guitar...


  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnauhei
    Newbie working through the Mickey Baker Jazz Guitar book. When I try and fret D13b5b9 using his fingerings, my third finger lays flat across all the strings and mutes everything. Any suggestions for fretting this chord? Or is the an alternate I can learn?
    As a newbie, I found that D7(b9) works like a charm after an Am7. I play that every time I see the D13b5b9 abomination which, in my humble newbie opinion, is just finger gymnastics.

    It would be X5454X if I understood well the notation system.

    Actually, Am7 - D7(b9) - Gmaj7 is a very common progression, isn't it? The ii-V-I, the spinal "chord" of jazzy stuff?

  10. #59

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    Secret hint: I used to have some sort of copy of the MB book and that chord was there - D13b9b5 or whatever it was... and next to it (printed in the book) was a picture exactly like this:

    Tips for fretting a D13b5b9?-untitled-jpg

    Solved :-)

  11. #60

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    For the ultimate in mobility and flexibility, think of a B triad which will give you the 13, b9, and 3. Granted you don't have the b5, but you can use your triad arpeggios and chord forms to your heart's content.