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  1. #101

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    rlrhett. Thanks for the vid. It was very interesting. I'm leaning toward grahambop's view that the AK book is showing a bunch of cool ways to move and that the book presents an easy way to get around because you are just using 6 and min6 chords as a reference. So with 6 and min6 as a reference, and borrowing from the related dim for each, you get a bunchof other harmonic possibilities without having to think too much about the chords and instead looking at the melody and your ear as a guide.

    Satin Doll makes an interesting example. So Dm7 G7 / Dm7 G7 / Em7 A7 / Em7 A7 / Am7 becomes F6 Dm6 / F6 Dm6 / G6 Em6 / G6 Em6 / C6. Edim is the dim associated with F6 and Dm6. F#dim is the dim associated with G6 and Em6. And Fdim is associated with C6. That works with your view of things. But what do we do about the 5th on the 6th idea? G6 supposedly functions as C6 and they each have different associated dim chords. AK says G6(V6 on C6) and C6 are "home" in his subsequent examples but each belong to different dim scales.

    But what's also kind of cool about Satin Doll is in the melody. A - G - A -G - A / A - G -A / B - A - B -A - B /- B - A - B in the first four bars. In the first half-bar the A is in F6 and the G is borrowed from Edim. In the second half of the first bar the A is in the Dm6 and the G is borrowed from the Edim. Same in second bar. In the first half of the 3d bar the B is in G6 and the A is borrowed from F#dim. In the second half of the 3d bar, the B is in Em6 and the A is borrowed from F#dim. Same for the 4th bar. And so on.

    I think the home and away idea is also good for moving on static chords. So a bar or two of Am7 can be C6(home)-Cdim(away)-F6(away)-Fdim(away on the way home) -C6(home). Note that the Fdim is enharmonic of Bdim which is the related dim of C6.

    I'm really looking forward to the borrowing part.

    Last edited by ColinO; 04-24-2017 at 08:29 AM.
    Still working on it.

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  3. #102

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    I tried Satin doll and I think you really want to move that F maj 6th to D min 6 in the second bar (it's one note difference)

    I would use a Fo7 for the Abm7 Db7 bit - that b7 b6 5 (Bb Ab G) is a really common melodic device - it's good to have a harmonisation for that on all string groups.

  4. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I tried Satin doll and I think you really want to move that F maj 6th to D min 6 in the second bar (it's one note difference)
    Absolutely. I was trying to demonstrate the concept using nothing but Maj6 and dim chords, but for a actual performance I think you could add all kinds of additional movement and color.

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I would use a Fo7 for the Abm7 Db7 bit - that b7 b6 5 (Bb Ab G) is a really common melodic device - it's good to have a harmonisation for that on all string groups.
    I'm not sure where you mean. I admit I wasn't naming the chords in my head. So much so I realize now I had transposed it up a step from the usual key. But I still don't find where I played Abm7 to Db7 (or Bbm7 to Eb7 in my cocked up playing).



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  5. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Absolutely. I was trying to demonstrate the concept using nothing but Maj6 and dim chords, but for a actual performance I think you could add all kinds of additional movement and color.



    I'm not sure where you mean. I admit I wasn't naming the chords in my head. So much so I realize now I had transposed it up a step from the usual key. But I still don't find where I played Abm7 to Db7 (or Bbm7 to Eb7 in my cocked up playing).



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    The last phrase 'out catting that Satin doll'

  6. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    The last phrase 'out catting that Satin doll'
    Shoot! You weren't supposed to notice I was just stumbling over that last part. Like humming over the part you forgot the lyrics and hoping no one notices. Kingstone/Harris Harmonic Method for Guitar


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  7. #106

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    Incidentally when you play G6 in the context of C ('sixth on the fifth') what you actually get is a rootless Cmaj9. Must admit I haven't tried this one so much, but it would be interesting to use it, as it will have some major and dim chords on different intervals than the C6/dim scale does.

  8. #107

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    Hi

    I am new to the forum.

    Can anyone direct me to where I can download the mp3 tracks for this please.

    Cheers

  9. #108

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    If it helps understanding about the genealogy... here is part of what he said during a workshop in 2003...

    Our music is perfect. It follows a pattern, it starts off very simply, it starts off with the chromatic. The chromatic is God creating the earth, creating the world. God created the world and our world is the chromatic scale, and that’s 12, which is like the twelve disciples, 1 and 2 is 3 and that equals the trinity, and then after God created the world, do you know what happened?

    He looked around and he said - oh! this is beautiful, but I’m still lonely - so you know what he made next, woman and man. He made man and woman. And what is man and woman then. Man and woman are the 2 whole tone scales. 2 whole tone scales come first. After the chromatic, come 2 whole tone scales. After the 2 whole tone scales, you know what happened to man and woman - they had babies - and the first thing they have is 3 diminishes.

    They had 3 diminishes - and the DNA is perfect. The DNA is perfection. Because with each diminished, 2 notes belong to one whole tone scale and 2 notes belong to the other. That is perfect DNA. So, now here we have the beginning of the music.

    The music is 2 going into 12, six times, 2 sixes is two whole tone scales, the two whole tone scales have babies, 3 goes into 12, four times, so you have 3 fours - that’s 2 diminishes, now - we make the world.

    See after those babies start crawling around, and messing around, suddenly we get more babies - and more babies - and more babies. Now from these diminishes, comes the world. The diminishes start branching out. And when the diminishes start branching out, you start getting dominants - see for one thing with the whole tone you’ve got major thirds, with the diminished you’ve got minor thirds, and then you start putting that stuff together. And then you start thinking - how am I going to get everything?

    So you take a diminished and you say, how can we get everything - so you say, maybe I’ll lower a tone. So you lower a tone first and you find out - oh, dominants, you find 4 dominants.

    And then after you find those 4 dominants, you say - ah ha- their tonics form a diminished and that’s how you get a diminished scale. A diminished scale isn’t half step - whole step. Don’t believe that nonsense, man is better than that. Man does not name things by saying oh that’s a half step, a whole step or it’s the whole step, half step - (bull) - it's 2 diminishes put together. The diminished, the 4 dominants that come from it, you put it together, their tonics form a diminished, you put it together, you’ve got a diminished scale. So everything starts coming.

    If you raise a tone a half step, ah - minor sixes. Now you’ve got minor sixes, you’ve got dominants, then you say - oh, I wonder what would happen if I take 2 tones and lower them. I’ll try 2 consecutive tones. So you take 2 consecutive tones and suddenly you get a major sixth. And the odd thing about it is when you take those diminishes and you raise those 2 consecutive tones - you’ve got another sixth, a major sixth - so you’ve got 2 major sixes.

    Our first 2 movement would be when you raised that tone and got the minor sixth and then you lowered that tone and got that dominant, your first move should be minor sixth to diminished to dominant. Now you see that is the first movement. That is the start of music. Our first move almost - that’s it.

    See, when we mess with the major sixes, we get another kind of move. See when you move the 2 consecutive tones up, now raise 2 consecutive tones (F# and A), now our next progression is going to be, hit that chord (C - Eb - G - Bb), then move them (G & Bb) back down (to form the diminished) and then move them down one (C - Eb - F - Ab). That’s our next move. See everything comes from this stuff.

    There’s 1 strange chord that comes in. When I say move consecutive - if he moved non-consecutive tones, he’ll end up with a different chord. Play that diminished again - take the C and the F# - hit that chord - you end up with a seventh with a flat five, 2 - because every seventh with a flat five is 2 dominants. See most people don’t even know that. That’s why the seventh with a flat five, that scale you always want to learn - because… nothing to it. You learn 6 and you know all 12. It’s like that. But see all of the music comes from that kind of stuff. I’ve got it where - see I think you learn these kind of scales for chording. So you learn how to chord.
    Barry Harris

  10. #109

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    I hope this thread will live on as I believe in can be the source of extremely good harmonic theory and advanced guitar playing.

    I'm not really good with forums but I'm going to try harder as I'm rather isolated here in retirement and always enjoy a viewpoint different from my own.

    To the point...I've noticed that the TRITONE chord with a b5 is the original dominant with a b5. It can make handling all string series a little easier. This goes to the BH statement above.

    I should do an introduction in the appropriate thread area...I think I will.


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  11. #110

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    Thank you for that, pauln. Kingstone quotes similar stuff at the end of Chapter One, but quite frankly it is not very clear what he means by any of that. It feels a little like abstract musings, where is the musical application?

    Your quote is more complete and I begin to get what Barry Harris might have meant. One thing I am beginning to wonder about is the use of the min6dim scale. I am working through Section 2.6 called "Movement". This is a massive section, and its taking time to get to the point where I digest it enough to post my thoughts and a video. However, there is no use of the min6dim scale or min6 chords. The thing is that since maj6 chords are ambiguously minor, it feels like you would never use the min6dim scale. Hoping the answer is coming up later.

  12. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Thank you for that, pauln. Kingstone quotes similar stuff at the end of Chapter One, but quite frankly it is not very clear what he means by any of that. It feels a little like abstract musings, where is the musical application?

    Your quote is more complete and I begin to get what Barry Harris might have meant. One thing I am beginning to wonder about is the use of the min6dim scale. I am working through Section 2.6 called "Movement". This is a massive section, and its taking time to get to the point where I digest it enough to post my thoughts and a video. However, there is no use of the min6dim scale or min6 chords. The thing is that since maj6 chords are ambiguously minor, it feels like you would never use the min6dim scale. Hoping the answer is coming up later.
    From memory, I don't think they are used in the Movement section. They are used in the Playing on Dominants section though.

  13. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    From memory, I don't think they are used in the Movement section. They are used in the Playing on Dominants section though.
    Had a quick look - in fact there is some use of the min6 on page 39 of the Movements section.

  14. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by hipjazzcat View Post
    Hi

    I am new to the forum.

    Can anyone direct me to where I can download the mp3 tracks for this please.

    Cheers
    You can get the book and CDs here:

    Jazz School Online - Shop

    I am not aware of anywhere to purchase and download mp3s.
    Still working on it.

  15. #114

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    I posted this elsewhere on the forum, but for those who are knew to the '6th diminished scale' concepts, Roni Ben-Hur's 'Chordability' DVD is an excellent introduction to this material and sits nicely alongside Alan Kingstone's book.

    Kingstone/Harris Harmonic Method for Guitar-51b5ld5rojl-_sy445_-jpg

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  16. #115

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    I'm really just working on getting comfortable playing the chords and some of the movement over chord progressions but I have a question for those who may be still going through this. It has to do with something I mentioned previously.

    On p. 28, AK talks about where diminished chords lead. He says that IVdim resolves to I6. Vdim resolves to IV6. And Idim resolves to I6 and IV6.

    The result of this is that every dim chord resolves to every I6:

    For example Cdim is C Eb Gb A. Those notes are also Ebdim Gbdim and Adim.

    So using any one of those notes as IVdim, that dim chord resolves to Db6 E6 G6 and Bb6.

    Using any one of those notes as Idim resolving to I6, that dim chord resolves to C6 Eb6 Gb6 and A6.

    Using any one of those notes as Idim resolving to IV6, that dim chord resolves to F6 Ab6 B6 and D6.

    Unless I am mistaken, That's all of the possible I6 chords that the same dim chord resolves to.

    So when using dim chords to move to and from I6 chords, is there any benefit to thinking much about which scale degree the dim chord is on? Shouldn't I just be thinking more about voice leading? Seems like you could throw any dim chord you want moving from one 6th chord to another.
    Still working on it.

  17. #116

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    I don't think that the three dim families are interchangeable. I think that they are used most satisfyingly when they resolve to their own family, and less so when they are a brief stand in for a different family.

    There are three families of dims and related chords. He calls them Idim, IVdim, and Vdim. For me it is helpful to just think in terms of the related maj triads: I, IV, and V. Yeah, "louie, louie" right?

    Each of these dims are mutually exclusive with no overlapping notes. As chords they are inherently unstable, so AK uses them as the bridge to lead you to from one major tone center to the other. But not randomly.

    The dim chords lead best to the major sound (and maybe we find out later in the book minor, but that is not covered in section 2.6) associated with them. So the IVdim (or IIdim, or IVdim, or bVIdim --all the same) leads best to the I maj. The Vdim (or bIIdim, or IIIdim, or bViidim) lead to the IVmaj; and the Idim (or bIIIdim, or #IVdim, or VIdim) lead to the Vmaj.

    I think to the extent that the Vdim and Idim resolve to I is only in that they imply the intermediary steps. But try it. To my ear it just isn't the same. The IVdim leads to the I6. The other two families don't really want to. Unexpected resolutions don't always sound bad, and if you want to do something that wakes up the listener you might lead to a major tone center from an unrelated dim. But to my ear it has a bit of a "surprise" element to it, whereas leading to the Imaj from the VIIdim/IIdim/IVdim/bVIdim is a natural sounding resolution.

    Again, this is what my ear is telling me. YMMV.

  18. #117

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    BTW, while I am enjoying the abstract applications of this sound and creating my own harmonies I am having a struggle applying this to existing standards. I would love to see these chords applied to a variety of existing tunes, so don't be shy about posting a video or two.

  19. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    BTW, while I am enjoying the abstract applications of this sound and creating my own harmonies I am having a struggle applying this to existing standards. I would love to see these chords applied to a variety of existing tunes, so don't be shy about posting a video or two.
    I think that is a good idea. Maybe it would be fun to pick a standard and each post something that we put together using this method.
    Still working on it.

  20. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    BTW, while I am enjoying the abstract applications of this sound and creating my own harmonies I am having a struggle applying this to existing standards. I would love to see these chords applied to a variety of existing tunes, so don't be shy about posting a video or two.
    See post no. 74.

  21. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    See post no. 74.
    Yes, thank you. As I said to ColinO, please don't be shy about posting a video of you playing that arrangement. Also, I know in a separate post (#62, I believe) you discuss how you chose the chords. If you would like talk that over in a video as you play it, I know that would add a lot to the discussion here. Likewise, if you have used chords/concepts that are from material further along in the book than where we are as a study group, please let us know. Sometimes it is a bit confusing when people make reference to other material not everyone may have covered yet without first identifying the source.

  22. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinO View Post
    I think that is a good idea. Maybe it would be fun to pick a standard and each post something that we put together using this method.
    I like that idea a lot. I think picking a tune that we agree on and working on the through the material together would be a great learning tool. I've bounced over "Satin Dolls", "You Can't Take that Away from Me", and "April in Paris". But I haven't really given any of them a serious treatment. Do you have a tune in mind you would like to arrange ala Barry Harris?

  23. #122

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    I wonder if it might be useful to post short patterns that an be pulled out quickly when improvising (while comping). There are endless variations that we can approach intellectually when arranging a tune, but there are some moves that I find myself going to time and again because they're easy on the fingers and the ears. I'm thinking literally like 1 minute of video: showing the move slow, then a brief explanation, then faster, then in the context of a tune. Might be easier to digest something of this length and get to using it in times right away rather than wading through an entire arrangement.

  24. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    I like that idea a lot. I think picking a tune that we agree on and working on the through the material together would be a great learning tool. I've bounced over "Satin Dolls", "You Can't Take that Away from Me", and "April in Paris". But I haven't really given any of them a serious treatment. Do you have a tune in mind you would like to arrange ala Barry Harris?
    Probably should be one that doesn't change chords more often than every bar. I have been kicking around random tunes and probably should concentrate on working one up for a start. All The Things You Are? Your suggestions are good too. You pick.
    Last edited by ColinO; 05-02-2017 at 03:19 PM.
    Still working on it.

  25. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Yes, thank you. As I said to ColinO, please don't be shy about posting a video of you playing that arrangement. Also, I know in a separate post (#62, I believe) you discuss how you chose the chords. If you would like talk that over in a video as you play it, I know that would add a lot to the discussion here. Likewise, if you have used chords/concepts that are from material further along in the book than where we are as a study group, please let us know. Sometimes it is a bit confusing when people make reference to other material not everyone may have covered yet without first identifying the source.
    I'm not really geared up to do videos easily (haven't even got a smart phone!). I could probably do an audio recording of it. If it helps I could play the chords for one chorus, then put a solo on top for the second chorus so you can see how it would all hang together.

    I think everything in my PDF comes from the sections you've looked at. Maybe where I tweaked a few chords you could regard that as coming from the 'borrowing' section. However I don't really use it systematically like that, I just change a note in a chord by ear if I feel like it.

  26. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    I'm not really geared up to do videos easily (haven't even got a smart phone!). I could probably do an audio recording of it. If it helps I could play the chords for one chorus, then put a solo on top for the second chorus so you can see how it would all hang together.

    I think everything in my PDF comes from the sections you've looked at. Maybe where I tweaked a few chords you could regard that as coming from the 'borrowing' section. However I don't really use it systematically like that, I just change a note in a chord by ear if I feel like it.
    I don't do videos either. I plan to do an audio and maybe a brief description of what I did. Should be easy enough to follow along.
    Still working on it.

  27. #126

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    Audio or video. I think the key is adding narration to what you are doing. Explanation + Demonstration = Communication, to use annoying corporate speak. Of course, video has the advantage of seeing the Fretboard. But I get that it's not trivial to do if you are not already set up for it.


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  28. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    Audio or video. I think the key is adding narration to what you are doing. Explanation + Demonstration = Communication, to use annoying corporate speak. Of course, video has the advantage of seeing the Fretboard. But I get that it's not trivial to do if you are not already set up for it.
    I doubt I'll talk, I'd rather just play it. Post no. 28 tells you the rules I followed, post 74 shows you the exact chord grips I used (both the original chord and the Barry Harris version), should be enough.

  29. #128

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    A natural test tune for examination of this approach is "Ain't Misbehavin"...

  30. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauln View Post
    A natural test tune for examination of this approach is "Ain't Misbehavin"...
    As the first to offer a tune we can work on together, I think you win the prize. Expect a man at your door with a comical oversized check and flowers.

    Let's just take it and run with it. I have been working on Afternoon in Paris, but that defeats the point of a study group tune if I've been already hammering it out! For the sake of the study group, I'll take a stab using just the stuff in the book up to this point.

    BTW, do you have a lead sheet you can share? That way we are all working of the same page... literally.

  31. #130

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    I would just mention that Ain't Misbehavin' has 2 chord changes per bar, not perhaps the easiest type of tune to start with.

  32. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    As the first to offer a tune we can work on together, I think you win the prize. Expect a man at your door with a comical oversized check and flowers.

    Let's just take it and run with it. I have been working on Afternoon in Paris, but that defeats the point of a study group tune if I've been already hammering it out! For the sake of the study group, I'll take a stab using just the stuff in the book up to this point.

    BTW, do you have a lead sheet you can share? That way we are all working of the same page... literally.
    grahambop has a point. However, I'm game. I think that posting a lead sheet may be against the rules here. However, I can PM anyone who wants to join in. The one I have is in Eb if that is ok with you.
    Still working on it.

  33. #132

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    I'll take one please.

  34. #133

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    If you google '557 jazz standards' you should be able to find a handy PDF fakebook going the rounds which has all the old standards. It's got Ain't Misbehavin' in Eb.

  35. #134

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    Started working on the tune tonight. Just interesting to note that parts of the song already feel fairly Barry Harris-ed. Two chords per measure is tough to BH when the II-Vs already use diminished chords. I'm focusing on borrowing in these short II-Vs and interesting sounding subs that sprout from BH, like using the min6 a half step up from the V to get an altered sound.

  36. #135

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    I play and perform exclusively by ear, so I rarely name chords, so I'm including how I play the first four bars. To my ear this tune is very chromatic. The chord change in bar three is just delightful...

    [x][6][8][7][8][x] Ebmaj7

    [x][7][8][7][8][x] Edim

    [x][8][8][8][9][x] F7#9sus4

    [x][9][10][8][10][x] F#dim

    [x][10][10][10][11][x] G7#9sus4

    [x][x][9][10][11][11] G7b13#9/F


    [x][11][10][8][8][x] Abmaj7

    [x][10][9][10][10][x] Gaug/F

  37. #136

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    Here's my "Ain't Misbehaving" contribution. As I say in the video I tried as much as possible to only look at the devices presented thus far in the book (Roughly section 2.6). Also, I took the melody ONLY. I did not look at the fakebook chord progression.

    I'm struggling with the analysis, but I will try to make sense of this later today.


  38. #137

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    And, for what its worth, here is a breakdown:



    EDIT: One small correction. I say early on that the move from the I6(Eb6) to Vdim should lead me to the IV6, but I didn't like that. I should acknowledge that Kingstone shows I6-Vdim-V6 not just Vdim-IV6. So I didn't totally break with Kinsgstone. However, going to the V6 sounded 'ok', but I still substituted the VIIb6.

    Next I mumble something about how I used the VI6 instead of IV6, and speculate about the VI and IV being "sisters". I meant:

    "My ear wants me to go to the VIIb6 rather than the V6. I suppose that works because they are 'sisters', but I don't really understand that part of the system yet."

    The VIIb6 and V6 are "brothers and sisters", not the IV6 and VI6.
    Last edited by rlrhett; 05-05-2017 at 01:47 AM.

  39. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    And, for what its worth, here is a breakdown:

    Love your posts - especially the videos and analyses.

    I hear this one a bit differently:

  40. #139

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    Here is a clip of me working through the first four bars of Ain't Misbehavin' using a BH-inspired approach. My apologies for the quality of the recording. I tried to get fancy with the audio and ended up with a nasty, buzzing ground loop. I'll figure out how to improve that for next time.


  41. #140

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    So I tried to comp through the changes rather than do a chord melody arrangement. I "converted" the fake book chords to the following as I was comping. I am trying not to write it all out because I want to get comfortable just reading it straight from the chart. Anyway, there are a couple pauses due to this. Here are the BH changes I used:

    Eb6 Eo / Ab6 Abo/ Eb6 Abm6 / Ab6 Abm6 /

    Eb6 Eo / Ab6 Fm6 /1 Dm6 Gm6 / F#m6 Fm6 :// 2 Eb6 Abm6 / Eb6 Abm6 //


    Eb6 / Ebm6 / Cm6 / Gm6 /

    Bb6 Bo / Eb6 Cm6 / Fm6 Gm6 / F#m6 Fm6//


    Eb6 Eo / Ab6 Abo/ Eb6 Abm6 / Ab6 Abm6 /

    Eb6 Eo / Ab6 Fm6 / Eb6 / Eb6 //

    1st Chorus

    Used middle four string set mostly. Started with the Eb6 chord with the root on the second string and moved up. Then second Eb6 using root on the third string and moved down. The Eb6 root 2 and up again. Mixed the m6 on the b2 and m6 on the 5th in bars 7 and 8 to get the descending turnaround.

    2nd and 3d Chorus

    Used top four string set mostly. Started with the Eb with root on 4th string and ascended until bar 4 then used the Ab6 with the root on the 2nd string and descended the rest of the way.

    Bridge

    Used middle and lower string sets.

    1st bar started on Ab6(6th on the 5th) and then descended using dim to the Eb. Then used descending bass notes down to the Bb6 alternating 6th chords and their related dim chords. Then back up to the Cm6. In last two bars of bridge again alternated b2 and 5 m6 chords for the descending turnaround.

    Then back to the beginning for the 3d chorus(see above). In the last two bars went Eb6-Ebo-Ab6-Abo-Eb6

    It's pretty rough but the chord movement sounds good to me. Not much practice with this tune and the voicings seem to pretty much fall into place. Once it's memorised then can start adding colours. I am really enjoying this approach.
    Last edited by ColinO; 05-05-2017 at 05:48 AM.
    Still working on it.

  42. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post

    It doesn't cover everything, you will need to tweak the chords sometimes. E.g. quartal chords are very useful and sound cool, but they are not in the BH system. But you only have to change one note usually to get them.
    No sure if you mean that the borrowing part is within the BH system but I see quartal harmony on pg 51 under CD trk 41 third chord C6 harmonized E-A-D-G.



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  43. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by WILSON 1 View Post
    No sure if you mean that the borrowing part is within the BH system but I see quartal harmony on pg 51 under CD trk 41 third chord C6 harmonized E-A-D-G.
    Yes 'borrowing' will get you some of them. But I think if you wanted to run a whole movement entirely in quartal chords that might be trickier.

    Not that it matters particularly, the BH system can be incorporated alongside whatever else you like to use.

  44. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Not that it matters particularly, the BH system can be incorporated alongside whatever else you like to use.
    So many great possibilities - for comping, for rhythm and for arranging. Wonderful stuff, wonderfully presented in AK's book.

  45. #144

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    So I thought I would do a second take....Doesn't look like me you say? Weird


  46. #145

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    This thread is proving really helpful, and I wanted to share that I'm looking at some favourite Al Jarreau (RIP) through BH lens - solo, on nylon. So much pleasure.

  47. #146

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    There is so much to be mined so far, but just to keep the study group fresh I'll push on to Section 2.7. Here's my contribution:





    WTF???

  48. #147

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    On a more serious note, I really don't understand what he is talking about.

    "F6 and Dm7 are the same chord with related Edim"... Ok, we've covered that. We "liberated" the Dm7 and were instructed to mentally read F6. Is he now suggesting we do the opposite? When we see a F6 we should think Dm7? What does that gain us?

    "Dm6 shares the related Edim".... Hmmm, go on...

    "E7alt would use Fm6dim also with related Edim"... Yes, I'm all ears...

    "That's more like it!"... That's more like what?? Where did the Fm6dim come from? Where does he use that? Why does he still have the E7 in his progression? I thought we had "liberated" the dominant chord as well. What does it mean that they share the related Edim? How am I supposed to use that?

    Did he do something somewhere I missed? What does all that supposed to mean in a playing environment?
    Last edited by rlrhett; 05-08-2017 at 02:53 PM.

  49. #148

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    Yeah, I'm not sure why he considers this something new. He previously said that for dom7 chords, one of options would be to use the m6/dim a b2 above the dominant chord, so for E7 - use Fm6/dim.

    I'm not sure why he wants to sub the Dm7 for the F6 since he would be using Dm6 for the Bm7b5 anyway.

    So maybe it's just a unique way of handling a 2 - 5 to the major 3 chord when it appears? In other words, even when we see a iim7 - V - I where the I is the III of the original key, we should treat the ii as a iim7b5 even when it appears as iim7?

    I'm probably going to move on and come back to this later. Too much for my little brain right now.
    Still working on it.

  50. #149

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    One thing that is interesting though is that F6=Dm7 and Dm6=Bm7b5. So perhaps it has something to do with pointing out that, although it looks like a strange movement - ie I - ivm7 - VII7 - III, the chords F6 - Dm7 - Dm6 - Fm6 are more related than they initially appear in the original progression?
    Still working on it.

  51. #150

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    Also, one thing that's kind of cool (although I don't know where it leads) is that a iim7 - V7 - I can also be thought of as a iim7 - iim6 - I. Or a I6 - iim6 - I6 if we use the 6th on the 5th thing for the first chord.
    Still working on it.