The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #501
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    How do you do that? Listen, listen, and listen to the recordings of the style you want to play. Listen to the bass movement and the chord movement. Also, listen to where the harmonic player (?) places those hits. Reg and I had a conversation not too far back about how rhythm and pulse contribute to what is played on which beat of the harmonic phrase.
    Hi Alex! I'd like to read that. Where can I find the conversation, please?
    Last edited by destinytot; 12-19-2015 at 01:08 PM. Reason: typo

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Any tune can be performed in almost any tempo and style, different styles imply different harmonic approaches for creating chord movement. And different tempos also imply how many chords or movement you can use.

    Take standards and play the related II- and in sub dominant function of every chord. Yes it requires you to make quick analysis... choices of what each chord is to be able to sub the related II-.

    Every chord becomes a tonal target with reference to the entire tune. Maybe start with... just approach every chord with related V7 chord... there are also choices of which V7 chord, again with tonal target chord and in relationship to tune.

    It's just a way of practicing performance, live performance with possibilities.
    Hey, Reg. I did a cursory search and didn't find anything from you on Stella, this month's practical standard. Pretty tough tune for me personally, being that the "basic" changes are pretty busy. Have you done a video incorporating any of that tune?https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/jazzg...ds-poll-2.html
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 12-19-2015 at 01:02 PM.

  4. #503

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    I think this might help you. There are a series of 6 books from Robin Nolan. With just one you'll see his easy approach to making heavy use of the low E string in regards to chords and chord movement. No theory or 'method' involved. It's pricey but it's worth it just to see the chord diagrams.

    Robin Nolan Gypsy Jazz Songbook and Play Along CD Volume 1 - DjangoBooks.com

  5. #504

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    Hey, Steve!

    Good suggestion re Robin Nolan. I had the luck to meet him in Amsterdam back in the 1996 when I stumbled upon his group playing outdoors one lovely summer's evening. I got to hang briefly with the band and friends in a cafe after their performance, though I did not speak much with Robin as he was rather quiet at the other end of a long table. In any case, he was a great guitarist back then, and he was likely in his twenties. He has a video or two with Martin Taylor as a duet on YT. I still have his band's card from that day.

    Anyway, I will have to take a look a that Gypsy Jazz Songbook. Sounds cool.

  6. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
    Ken.

    Try lesson 15, Monk Moves.

    This is not the Sixth Diminished stuff.

    A


    Also lesson 14 talks about Sisters & Brothers to create II / V / I moves. Start with Intro Video.


    So I'm looking in the book and page 23 and 24 have the same exact diagrams?

    Also referring to those same diagrams on page 23 and 24...are those 3 chords in each diagram representing 2-5-1?
    they are written as V6-vo-16 So if they do refer to 2-5-1 how are we getting more movement if it still 3 chords?
    I must just not see it.
    thx
    Ken

  7. #506

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
    So I'm looking in the book and page 23 and 24 have the same exact diagrams?

    Also referring to those same diagrams on page 23 and 24...are those 3 chords in each diagram representing 2-5-1?
    they are written as V6-vo-16 So if they do refer to 2-5-1 how are we getting more movement if it still 3 chords?
    I must just not see it.
    thx
    Ken
    The C6 chord creates an F maj9 sound when played in the key of F (see page 21). It moves easily to the F6 chord. The Cdim just makes a nice smooth-sounding transition in between them (because 2 of the voices move down in half steps). So if you had a bar with just one F chord in it, you could use these 3 chords to replace it and create more movement (3 chords instead of one - that's where the movement comes from).

    So a solitary F chord could be played instead as C6, Cdim, F6. It basically says that on page 22.

    The eight variants given are just different inversions of this movement, i.e. on 4 different roots and 2 different string sets, to give you lots of options where to use this move. By transposing these shapes as necessary, you could use this movement on any major chord in any key anywhere you like.
    Last edited by grahambop; 12-19-2015 at 07:14 PM.

  8. #507

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    The C6 chord creates an F maj9 sound when played in the key of F (see page 21). It moves easily to the F6 chord. The Cdim just makes a nice smooth-sounding transition in between them (because 2 of the voices move down in half steps). So if you had a bar with just one F chord in it, you could use these 3 chords to replace it and create more movement (3 chords instead of one - that's where the movement comes from).

    So a solitary F chord could be played instead as C6, Cdim, F6. It basically says that on page 22.

    The eight variants given are just different inversions of this movement, i.e. on 4 different roots and 2 different string sets, to give you lots of options where to use this move. By transposing these shapes as necessary, you could use this movement on any major chord in any key anywhere you like.
    Page 25 has the same diagrams because it is basically the same thing, but now applied to a minor chord. Because F6 has the same notes as D min7, you can also use the C6, Cdim, F6 move to replace a D minor chord. (the C6 chord still makes a reasonable 'fit' in D min because it contains the 5th, min7th, 9th, 11th of D minor).

    So now you can use the same movement twice as much, i.e. to replace a minor chord as well as a major chord.

    I assume you're talking about Alan Kingstone's book by the way, perhaps the page numbers are slightly different in my edition. But I think the above stuff is what you are referring to.

  9. #508

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    Hey, Steve!

    Good suggestion re Robin Nolan. I had the luck to meet him in Amsterdam back in the 1996 when I stumbled upon his group playing outdoors one lovely summer's evening. I got to hang briefly with the band and friends in a cafe after their performance, though I did not speak much with Robin as he was rather quiet at the other end of a long table. In any case, he was a great guitarist back then, and he was likely in his twenties. He has a video or two with Martin Taylor as a duet on YT. I still have his band's card from that day.

    Anyway, I will have to take a look a that Gypsy Jazz Songbook. Sounds cool.
    The way he voices chords there might be the 5th of the chord on the low E string, down a half step and it will be b9th of the chord, then the root on the next chord. Just look at the chord diagrams. It creates a nice effect with the heavy use of the low E string.
    There's no theory or anything. You can work that out later.
    I think that's the kind of thing the OP might be looking for.

  10. #509

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
    So I'm looking in the book and page 23 and 24 have the same exact diagrams?

    Also referring to those same diagrams on page 23 and 24...are those 3 chords in each diagram representing 2-5-1?
    they are written as V6-vo-16 So if they do refer to 2-5-1 how are we getting more movement if it still 3 chords?
    I must just not see it.
    thx
    Ken

    For page 23, read page 21.

    Not II/V/I.

    As a ONE FUNCTION.

    Page 24 looks nothing like page 23.

    Page 25 is exactly the same as page 23 as a TWO FUNCTION.

  11. #510

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    Another great chord sub

    " anytime you want to play a hip dominant seventh chord with a #5 and b9 (eg, B7#5b9), just play a minor sixth a half step above it (C-6)."

    it works perfectly.

  12. #511

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    Alternate RC using diminished chords

    I6--Idim--IV6--V6--Vdim--I6

  13. #512

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    PS-- does Alan's book cover the concept of "borrowed notes"? I E, borrowing notes from the dominant seventh "resolving" into the diminished, or borrowing notes from the diminished into the minor or major sixth chord? Yet another way of creating movement and tension.

  14. #513

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    [QUOTE=NSJ;596489]Another great chord sub

    " anytime you want to play a hip dominant seventh chord with a #5 and b9 (eg, B7#5b9), just play a minor sixth a half step above it (C-6)."

    This thinking is good for a quick fix I guess but it's very important to understand the chords function in the given moment.
    Where is the chord heading.

    Once you get that C-6 is an F9 without the root or an A-7b5 the world of chord movement opens up as you have voicings for all these chords too.

    You could be really hip and voice the chord voicing

    Eb G A D (bottom to top, Eb on D string 13 fret)

    Then look at what this chord can be.

    C-6/9
    B7 #9
    Am7b5
    F13
    D7susb9


    So when you think of this chord with.

    Eb being the b3 it's a C-6/9
    Eb/D# being the natural 3 of B7#9
    Eb being b5 of Am7b5
    Eb being the b7 of F13
    Eb being the b9 of D7susb9

    It becomes VERY VERY useful.

    The voicing I gave you also SCREAMS melodic minor you can finger the C melodic minor right under that scale.

    And guess what.

    It works PERFECTLY for all those chords.

    C melodic minor from Root of C-6/9
    C melodic min half step above B7 alt
    C melodic min minor third above Am7b5
    C melodic min from 5th of F13
    C melodic min from b7 D7susb9


    Work out different inversions of this chord in all string sets and employ it in turnarounds and cycles.

    It opens up melodic minor and chord subs and movement like you wouldn't believe.

    Do this with all the notes in the chord too so.

    When you want to use the voicing as a C-6/9
    the 9th is on the top

    so to make it say F-6/9

    Move the whole voicing so you have a G on the top.

    The rule is look at the FUNCTION of all the notes in the chord. Then use the chord in all its possibilities it becomes second nature to see this as an Altered dom or a -75b or a m6
    Last edited by 55bar; 12-20-2015 at 02:42 AM.

  15. #514

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ
    Another great chord sub

    " anytime you want to play a hip dominant seventh chord with a #5 and b9 (eg, B7#5b9), just play a minor sixth a half step above it (C-6)."

    it works perfectly.

    Cmi6 is a rootless F9 chord so it's a tritone sub of B7 alt.

  16. #515

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    Cmi6 is a rootless F9 chord so it's a tritone sub of B7 alt.
    You beat me to it.

  17. #516

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    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar
    You beat me to it.

    as my teacher like to say.... figure out the math of the song.

  18. #517

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    as my teacher like to say.... figure out the math of the song.
    Exactly

    Mine used to say "play better!"

  19. #518

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ
    One benefit of the Barry Harris system is that I can create a simple set of changes that enable me to find one simple way of getting through the tune


    People concoct very complex and elaborate arrangements, me, I just want to get through the song in an uncluttered way such that it's bulletproof in terms of internalization and gives me plenty of options on the fingerboard as well. Maybe ornamentations and elaborate chord subs and whatnot can come later, but first I want to write out an arrangement that's clear and Helps me get through the song in one simple way.
    Same here! There's a parallel (-at least in expression) with speed: if you can't play it slow, you can't play it fast; if you can't play it (-a tune) one way, you can't get play it several.

  20. #519

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    Cmi6 is a rootless F9 chord so it's a tritone sub of B7 alt.
    I used to not know that. And even now sometimes I don't put the knowledge to use as often as I might. But I really like the minor 6 chord shape. (Lot of blues players use it as, say F9/C, or just use it for F7 and don't worry about the name or rationale for it.)

  21. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    The C6 chord creates an F maj9 sound when played in the key of F (see page 21). It moves easily to the F6 chord. The Cdim just makes a nice smooth-sounding transition in between them (because 2 of the voices move down in half steps). So if you had a bar with just one F chord in it, you could use these 3 chords to replace it and create more movement (3 chords instead of one - that's where the movement comes from).

    So a solitary F chord could be played instead as C6, Cdim, F6. It basically says that on page 22.

    The eight variants given are just different inversions of this movement, i.e. on 4 different roots and 2 different string sets, to give you lots of options where to use this move. By transposing these shapes as necessary, you could use this movement on any major chord in any key anywhere you like.

    So with any bar where you have a MAJ chord for 4 beats you can move those 3 shapes instead of playing static Fmaj?

  22. #521

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
    So with any bar where you have a MAJ chord for 4 beats you can move those 3 shapes instead of playing static Fmaj?
    Is that the sound of a penny I just heard Looking for the best book on creating chord movement to use on standards

  23. #522
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ
    Alternate RC using diminished chords

    I6--Idim--IV6--V6--Vdim--I6
    RC - rhythm changes?

  24. #523

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot
    RC - rhythm changes?
    Yes In lieu of a 1-6-2-5-1 turnaround

  25. #524

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
    So with any bar where you have a MAJ chord for 4 beats you can move those 3 shapes instead of playing static Fmaj?
    Yes that's it.

  26. #525

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I used to not know that. And even now sometimes I don't put the knowledge to use as often as I might. But I really like the minor 6 chord shape. (Lot of blues players use it as, say F9/C, or just use it for F7 and don't worry about the name or rationale for it.)
    Think of the chord shape commonly used. Cmi6 = Ami7b5 (inversion of Cmi6) = F9 (no root) a lot of chords have multiple names.