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  1. #801

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    Yea... changes can be looked and heard in different perspectives... Like I always push... jazz is about chord patterns, and the possibilities that that chord pattern creates or can imply. And yes... it's very typical to hear or call chord patters... one tonal reference, and then use a dominant tonic melodic pattern for creating the melodic motion.... any functional type of movement etc... Somewhat like the relationship between pedals or ostinatos and melodic or chordal lines.

    It all works... I have just spent my life listening and trying to organize what I was listening to. So I could repeat.

    Maybe the years I spent composing, writing and arranging music forced me into always being aware of as many aspects of music as I could. And I'm still learning... I was diggin what Jordon was doing with his triad usage. Made me stop and rethink some of my use of triads.... not the concept. I move basic triadic structures around with added notes all the time... but not with the voicing organization Jordon used. Fun to hear and looking forward to more.

    This thread has personally been great for opening up basic jazz harmonic principles of organization and structure...

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #802
    A lot in that post...
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    where as the D7b13#9... has two, b3 and b7... plus the root F. We're getting pretty Blue there. Also can use same D7altered to imply blues with tonal target of G... I know there is no G or root but there are a few approaches... use actual blue notes as tonal targets... the F from D7altered or b7 of G-7 can easily become become melodic target with blue note implications..... (basically using Blues licks with target of F).
    D7b13#9 with F as the tonal target vs. D7b13#9 with G as the tonal target?

    What does that look like/sound like? Or is it just that that the scale derived from trying to utilize those blue notes relative to F leads you to an altered scale which can be dominant of G?

    Also, regarding melodic minor, you're not using it functionally in relation to minor, and a lot of it is very symmetrical sounding, how do you imply different things with it? Are you talking about targeting melodically like enclosures etc., or how the MM pitches resolve to the target chord tones? I guess that's mostly how I hear altered. I guess because it has so many different applications it can take you a lot of different places?

    More broadly, where to start with all of it? Applications to V7 are a little more obvious I guess. You've mentioned the 2nd tritone in MM before, and using it as a reference . You've mentioned sub of subs before. Do you just work your way back to other chord types (besides dominant) using similar?

    What's the structure and sequence for approaching the study of all of this if you're Reg back in the day? Where do you start? :-)

    Lastly, if you showed us some reference altered fingerings for voicings , lead lines, might be a good starting reference.... Do you use mostly the same in other applications besides just altered? Might be a good starting point for seeing some of this little better than just understanding in text. I guess it's hard to SEE on screen sometimes the context applications because the voicings are all from the parent, melodic minor, anyway. To the untrained eye it all just looks melodic minor? Does that make sense?

    Ha ha. A lot of questions. Always enjoy your posts. I understand a little more all along. Thanks always.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 01-19-2016 at 02:10 PM.

  4. #803

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    Hey Matt... I'll try and put a vid together...

  5. #804

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    Hey Matt remember this old Dolphin dance vid ... there are a bunch of MM blue note usage all through the vid... some different usages of not standard blue note... but Maybe I'll use tune to show some examples... Or would a standard be easier to see and hear... It doesn't really matter to me... really, any tune will work and also maybe we can get melodic applications of the same harmonic relationships.

  6. #805

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    I've been playing around with the dominant lead-line voicings reg posted. Refreshing perspective going top-down for a while.

    Love this one from Broadway, just 2 chords really, melody leads:

    7X788X
    6X677X
    X6767X
    X5656X
    B7#5
    Bb7#5
    Ebm7b5 (Gb-6 ) (F7alt) (tritone sub of B7)
    Dm7b5 (F-6) (E7 alt) (tritone sub of Bb7)

    Is that how you unravel the onion ??
    Navdeep Singh.

  7. #806
    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    B7#5
    Bb7#5
    Ebm7b5 (Gb-6 ) (F7alt) (tritone sub of B7)
    Dm7b5 (F-6) (E7 alt) (tritone sub of Bb7)

    Is that how you unravel the onion ??
    Yeah. By "2 chords" I meant B7 to Bb7 (twice). Looking back, I guess it could have looked like I was saying 2 chord shapes.

    Any of those are right. I'd tend to look at them in context as B7#5, Bb7#5, B9, Bb9.

    Potayto, potahto... :-)

  8. #807
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Or would a standard be easier to see and hear...
    Yeah, a standard might be easier, for me anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    really, any tune will work and also maybe we can get melodic applications of the same harmonic relationships.
    That would be really cool. I've done some basic 7 position melodic minor homework that I'd like to apply a little more.

  9. #808
    Was it 55bar who mentioned "Softly" a few pages back?



    Also, "There Will Never Be Another You" is next month's practical standards tune I think.

    Might be a good one as well...

    Just ideas...
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 01-20-2016 at 12:00 AM.

  10. #809

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Was it 55bar who mentioned "Softly" a few pages back?



    Also, "There Will Never Be Another You" is next month's practical standards tune I think.

    Might be a good one as well...

    Just ideas...
    Yes it was, also there is another one where Reg goes through a wes blues tune in Eb lots of great stuff in there.

    My method for learning all this is going through all of Reg's YouTube videos, •listening
    •pausing
    •copying
    •then applying the stuff I've learned to standards by setting up a backing track or Recording the melody of a tune with a click then comping to it.
    • writing wes style blues compositions or Latin/funk heads

    Abersold would have been AMAZING if they were allowed to have a horn player playing the heads.

    I'm slowly getting better but it's great fun.
    Last edited by 55bar; 01-20-2016 at 11:56 AM.

  11. #810
    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar View Post
    Yes it was, also there is another one where Reg goes through a wes blues tune in Eb lots of great stuff in there.

    My method for learning all this is going through all of Reg's YouTube videos, •listening
    •pausing
    •copying
    •then applying the stuff I've learned to standards by setting up a backing track or Recording the melody of a tune with a click then comping to it.
    • writing wes style blues compositions or Latin/funk heads

    Abersold would have been AMAZING if they were allowed to have a horn player plating the heads.

    I'm slowly getting better but it's great fun.
    That's cool. Honestly, I had been frustrated with YouTube playback for this type of thing until the last week or two. I found these keyboard shortcuts , and realize what I had been missing in the process.

    http://digiwonk.wonderhowto.com/how-...utube-0161382/

    You can skip ahead or skip back five seconds or so using arrow keys , skip to different sections , (percentages within the video) using the 1 through 9 buttons etc. really pretty helpful...
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 01-20-2016 at 02:36 PM.

  12. #811
    There's also Stella. Lots of obvious, clean, first-level application of melodic minor. Could juxtapose and apply to more interesting applications as well?

  13. #812

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    B7#5
    Bb7#5
    Ebm7b5 (Gb-6 ) (F7alt) (tritone sub of B7)
    Dm7b5 (F-6) (E7 alt) (tritone sub of Bb7)

    Is that how you unravel the onion ??
    yea Navdeep could be... but I probable was just using that Expanded Diatonic chords a 3rd above and 3rd below method...
    So B7 sub is D#-7b5 or A#-7
    Or ... I usually use
    7 X 7 8 8 X
    6 X 6 7 8 X
    X 6 7 6 7 X
    X 5 6 5 6 X just depends on what lead line I want etc...

    And I would think be with reference to tonal target or Eb7... which becomes very blue note from Melodic minor
    X 4 5 5 4 X

    So it's all just bII - I bII - I
    which is in the end... just V - I right

    So even better...
    7 X 7 8 8 X
    6 X 6 7 8 X
    X 6 7 6 7 X
    X 5 6 5 6 X
    X 1 1 1 1 X
    X 4 5 5 4 X... that's starting to sound like me. I generally play very basic... no real complicated concepts. not that many voicing, nothing new of hip....but it does work. There is a beginning and an end.
    Last edited by Reg; 01-20-2016 at 10:00 AM.

  14. #813

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    Hey Matt... Stella's great idea... it's almost all just two bar phrases, easy to hear. Thanks... I'm gone today and tomorrow, I'll try and record playing through Stella with slower examples on Friday...

  15. #814
    Reg, the info you've posted has been unbelievably helpful, especially the Minor7th voicings. Thank you greatly

  16. #815
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Hey Matt... Stella's great idea... it's almost all just two bar phrases, easy to hear. Thanks... I'm gone today and tomorrow, I'll try and record playing through Stella with slower examples on Friday...
    Hey, reg would love to see this if you get a chance.

  17. #816

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    I had been frustrated with YouTube playback for this type of thing until the last week or two. I found these keyboard shortcuts , and realize what I had been missing in the process.

    30+ Keyboard Shortcuts You Should Be Using on YouTube « Digiwonk
    Thanks, that's useful indeed

    My way of dealing with this is to download the video and then open and view it using Transcribe! which offers similar features, and more, specially the setting of markers (section, bar, whatever) and the ability to stop at any point for instance to analyse a fingering.

    The price to pay is disk space and time to download, but I like to keep a record of the tunes I've been working on.
    Perfection is in the Details, but Perfection isn't a Detail (Leonardo da Vinci)

  18. #817
    Never could get past the malware/spam issues with downloading from YouTube. Haven't figured it out.

  19. #818

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    I use Linux but what I use is available for Windows and mac. Here's a link. http://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/

    I've used this to put reg's videos into a video editor so that I can stop and start frame by frame. Thanks, reg

  20. #819

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    Something that works for me is 'Savefrom'. Just type "ss" in the url right before the site name (e.g., "www.ssyoutube...") and it comes up with a variety of options for download. Some of these are variably reliable, but I don't think I've ever had a problem with the default mp4.
    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  21. #820

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Hey, reg would love to see this if you get a chance.
    Hey Matt... I will... I've had no time at all, and am swamped until wed... If I get home early tonight... I'll play through Stella and show how I use Expanded Diatonic relationships, subs and modal interchange to help frame Blue Notes usually from Melodic Minor. And how I personally use that rating system of which source generally has the most weight... sounds best with framing blue notes...

  22. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Hey Matt... I will... I've had no time at all, and am swamped until wed... If I get home early tonight... I'll play through Stella and show how I use Expanded Diatonic relationships, subs and modal interchange to help frame Blue Notes usually from Melodic Minor. And how I personally use that rating system of which source generally has the most weight... sounds best with framing blue notes...
    No worries. Thanks, reg.

  23. #822

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    to be honest, i didn't read all the posts in this thread, it's quite long. I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but even if you get all the movement down and under the fingers. It won't mean anything without context. It's called accompaniment for a reason you know? Because you're accompanying a soloist. Needless to say, the role of being a comper in a rhythm section, is for you and the rhythm section trying to make the soloist sound the best as they can, and swing as hard as they can, e.g Wynton Kelly Trio and Wes at the Half note. You can just hear Kelly, Chambers and Cobb absorbing Wes' lines, and if not all the time, most of the time they manage to stay out of his way, and let him do his thing, and of course kick him up the ass with some serious swing.

    Oz