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Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
That's cool, now just keep playing and refining, playing and refining. You understand more than you realize.
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11-23-2015 09:41 PM
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thx Doc, going to keep working...I know he mentioned you can sub E for Bb7...Would it still be E dominant?
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Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
Yes, E7 would be the tritone sub of Bb7.
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And because these tritone sub chords are so similar, you can make some nice easy chord movements with them on the guitar. Originally Posted by docbop
e.g. you could replace Bb7, with E9 moving to Bb7#5, which would just be:
x7677x to 6x677x
Same chord almost, only the bass note needs to change.
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ty Grahambop!!! Originally Posted by grahambop
Ken
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Some 4 Note Dominant Tritone Relationships
Silent (Roots) indicated in parenthesis.
E7b5 - E G# Bb D = Bb7b5 - Bb D Fb Ab
E7 - E G# B D = Bb7b5b9 - (Bb) D Fb Ab Cb
E7+ - E G# B# D = Bb9b5 - (Bb) D Fb Ab C
E13 - E G# C# D = Bb7#9b5 - (Bb) D Fb Ab C#
----------------------------------------------------------
E7b5b9 - (E) G# Bb D F = Bb7 - Bb D F Ab
E7b9 - (E) G# B D F = Bb7b9 - (Bb) D F Ab Cb
E7b9+ - (E) G# B# D F = Bb9 - (Bb) D F Ab C
E13b9 - (E) G# C# D F = Bb7#9 - (Bb) D F Ab C#
-------------------------------------------------------------
E9b5 - (E) G# Bb D F# = Bb7+ - Bb D F# Ab
E9 - (E) G# B D F# = Bb7b9+ - (Bb) D F# Ab Cb
E9+ - (E) G# B# D F# = Bb9+ - (Bb) D F# Ab C
E9/13 - (E) G# C# D F# = Bb7#9+ - (Bb) D F# Ab C#
----------------------------------------------------------------
E7b5#9 - (E) G# Bb D Fx = Bb13 - Bb D G Ab
E7#9 - (E) G# B D Fx = Bb13b9 - (Bb) D G Ab Cb
E7#9+ - (E) G# B# D Fx = Bb9/13 - (Bb) D G Ab C
E13#9 - (E) G# C# D Fx = Bb13#9 - (Bb) D G Ab C#
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Tritone Functional Relationships
Root = b5
3 = b7
b5 = Root
5 = b9
#5 = 9
13 = #9
b7 = 3
b9 = 5
9 = #5
#9 = 13
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WOW, now I have to try and understand it Originally Posted by bako
Thanks Bako!!!!
Ken
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Ken, frankly I think it's easier if you don't spend too much time understanding it in depth, but rather think of it visually and sonically. Think of it like this for starters: Whenever you see a II-V, after the II, play a dominant chord one fret down. Eg. Instead of Dm-G7-Cmaj7, play Dm-Db7-Cmaj7.
Simple, and it always works.
If you are interested in dominant substitutions and why they work, look again at the Kingstone book. He talks about it in one of the chapters. It opened my eyes to many uncommon substitution possibilities.
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Thank you Alain Originally Posted by AlainJazz
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Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
WOW, now I have to try and understand it Thanks Bako!!!!
Ken
Tritone subs work because the 3rd and 7th of both chords are the same notes.
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11-24-2015, 04:54 PM #236destinytot Guest
Great thread - nice one!
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ty Originally Posted by destinytot
Great thread - nice one!
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Larry Carlton can play very fast, have you heard his song "Point it up" From room 335 album, I believe that's the name of the song
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Xclnt, I really like the movement you project with those chords.
Looks like another one for the wish list.
Although this one goes to the top of the list.
Thanks Alan
edh
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Again I think it was a mistake not to show how it could be used over different standards, such as My romance , Misty and a like.
ken
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Alan, I hate books. I've never learned anything useful for my day to day playing out of a book .... Until I got your book. Very insightful and immediately useful. Thank-you.
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Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
I'm as helpless as a kitten up a tree.
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I think the idea is you should be able to figure this out for yourself. Bear in mind I've only skimmed the book so far, but I can see there are chord lines (scales if you like) for a Major context, and a Minor context. The diminished chords are used for the 'in-between' tones. And (I'm guessing a bit here, I haven't got to this in the book yet) you can usually fit an appropriate diminished chord over an altered dominant 7th chord. (For example I sometimes use an F diminished on the top 4 strings to replace a G7alt chord, it fits quite nicely). Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
Most of what you encounter in standard tunes will be building movement over a major chord or a minor chord or a dominant chord. Like Joe Pass said, those are the only 3 chords he concerned himself with, essentially.
So if you have a typical ii-V-I progression you could easily construct some movement over it from a combination of the appropriate chord line ideas in Alan's book, I would have thought. In fact doesn't the book give one or two examples of what to do on a ii-V-I? I'm sure I saw that on one page.
At the end of the book there is a completely written out (standard notation) example over a standard, with a bar-by-bar analysis of which devices from the book were used, in EVERY BAR. I can't see why you can't get something from that and apply it to other tunes.
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Alain, edh, Graham, thanks to all for your kind words. I'm glad you find value in the book.
Navdeep, yes the book is solely a harmonic method.
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Love that story in the book where you started cataloguing every possible chord variation using the method, and Barry Harris said 'don't do that, you'll spoil the fun for everybody!' Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Ha!
I can still hear him "you're taking all the fun out of it".
That thing was going to be the size of a phone book.
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That's good stuff. Thanks. You should post more. You've definitely got something many others want. Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
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Just out of curiosity - I read here references to a "method". Is there a guiding principle to be enunciated relating to the use of the m6th or diminished chords? I listened to the nice playing in Alan's video which was characterized by excellent voice leading. I'm not trying to get the Cliff Notes version but rather to understand what makes Barry Harris' concept of harmony different from traditional approaches.
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See my post no. 61 (on page 2 of this thread). There is a website link with some useful details. On that web page there is a PDF with some examples of the Barry Harris chord lines/scales. Originally Posted by targuit
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Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
Sounds like Bill Evans I think it was his brother asked him multiple times how he played something and Bill just ignored him. Finally his brother asked him why won't you show me that and Bill's response was... I don't want to deny you the joy you'll get when you discover it yourself. The old school teachers like Barry Harry know that it's the process that teaches not the answer.
BTW I had difficulty getting into the book early on and mentioned it in other threads. I admit I was one of those idiots asking for more examples. Now that I picked up the basic concepts via a piano player I'm back working on your book and digging it. It's really opened up my comping and my single line both applying the concept.Last edited by docbop; 12-02-2015 at 01:40 PM.
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