what is a mirror image of a chord ?

[604bourne123]

If you have a C major scale cdefgabc the mirror is aflat phyrgian or triads ceg=f,aflat,c.egc=ecsharp gsharp=gce=bflat d g

[Luan]

Never heard of something like that

[timscarey]

it's how you play guitar chords on a mandolin, seriously. but I have no idea what your talking about.

[Lester]

Maybe it's like a Bizarro Superman thing....when Ed Bickert plays a good riff, Slash plays a bad riff, or a "mirror image" of Ed's riff.

obvious is the reverse of the interval pattern.? anybody know. i heard it somewhere is it sensible?

[JohnW400]

Never heard of it. Maybe Matt has. The only thing I could think of it that is may apply to diminished 7ths and augmented triads or the tritone.

[Paul J Edwards]

It is how the chord form looks when you play in front of a mirror.

[Banksia]

I recall seeing this as a lesson 30 years ago. Take a 3-string Dm at 5P: the fingering is 1st Finger 5F 1s, 2nd 6F 2S, 3rd 7F 3S. The mirror would be 1st Finger 5F 3S, 2nd 6F 2S, 3rd 7F 1S. It can be used on four strings too. I recall it was just a warm-up and dexterity-builder. If you move the positions chromatically it might have some limited riff value.

Other than that, No Idea!

[bako]

C E G- C is the generator- E a Ma3 ascending- G a P5th ascending

C Ab F- C is the generator- Ab a Ma3 descending- F a P5th descending

C major triad= F minor triad using mirrored intervals off of C as a generator

CDEFGABC=CBbAbGFEbDbC C Ionian = Ab Phrygian

I don't know if this is the concept that you are referring to.

There are 20th century classical composers and some contemporary jazz musicians who have very keen awareness of intervalic shapes and their inversions moving in both directions from any degree.

[JohnW400]

C E G- C is the generator- E a Ma3 ascending- G a P5th ascending

C Ab F- C is the generator- Ab a Ma3 descending- F a P5th descending

C major triad= F minor triad using mirrored intervals off of C as a generator

CDEFGABC=CBbAbGFEbDbC C Ionian = Ab Phrygian

I don't know if this is the concept that you are referring to.

There are 20th century classical composers and some contemporary jazz musicians who have very keen awareness of intervalic shapes and their inversions moving in both directions from any degree.

Now that makes sense. Thanks for that.

[mike palmer]

I see this is an old post but thought I'd add something (of very little use). First, I do not know what a mirror image of a chord is. I think timscarey and paul edwards are both clever, humorous and who knows, maybe correct. The chords on a mandolin are reverse/mirror images of guitar chords. bako's reply seems the most logically sound.

I have heard 'mirror image' used in terms of motif development. It was referring not just to chords, but the visual appearance of the notes on the staff. So an ascending arpeggio and a descending arp would be a mirror image if you just looked at the physical shape of the notes on staff as 'dots.' That is the basic concept of the term as I've heard it before.

There is an endless amount of variations and use for this. It simply involves moving the mirrored shape around as a tool to come up with a melody for improv/composition. If you take a motif, you can move it up chromatically and keep the same steps between the notes. or you could move it up diatonically and keep the scalar steps, or you could move it up a minor 3rd, etc, etc. Then you split the images, move one up, one down. The basic concept is taking a few notes and creating inside/outside sounds by moving a similar shape or similar intervals around so the improv sounds more like an intended composition, a less random improv with more symmetry and fewer weak spots; sort of a scale buster, so your improv isn't all about sclaes and arps. It's almost mathematical in approach (check out Baroque composers and some of their tools for variations), one just applies this concept and see what intervals develop. There are a lot of 'systems' that are very similar.

It was usually pianists that I've heard discussing this, better used in 3-4 piece combos where the keyboard can take all the space it wants, and was most often used in a modal environment. So maybe some of you that also play keys can say whether this is 'mirror image chords' or if I am just lost (wouldn't be the first time).

[bako]

1.Starting with a minor 2nd.

//C-Db/B-D/Bb-Eb/A-E/Ab-F/G-F#/F#-G/F-Ab/E-A/Eb-Bb/D-B/Db-C/C-Db//

2. Starting with a unison

//C-C/B-C#/Bb-D/A-Eb/G#-E/G-F/F#-F#/F-G/E-G#/Eb-A/D-Bb/C#-B/C-C//

These are 2 different interval spirals in contrary motion.

#1 contains m2/m3/P4/P5/ma6/ma7/b9/#9(m10)/11/P5 8ve/13/ma7 8ve/b9 8ve//

#2 contains unison/ma2/ma3/#4(b5)/m6(#5)/m7/octave/ma9/ma10/#11/b13/m7 8ve/octave 8ve//

Each spiral hits the opposite intervals of the other. On guitar these can be played harmonically or melodically.
They can be played forwards or backwards, sequentially or all manner of skipping around just like any scale.
They can be transposed to all generators (central note) and the 2 spirals can mix with each other as well as combine with the sum total of our music making tool box.

Steve Coleman presented this material in a workshop. He is not the inventor but someone who is very fluent with it.
He can use it in song form and harmony as well as more open environments. It is simply another filter and additional perspective. Like all technical pursuits it can become useful as our ability to hear it's possiblities and realize them on our instrument becomes second nature.

[JohnW400]

Yes I remeber hearing something about this YEARS ago, now that you've shaken off some cobweb from my memory. Thanks.

[mike palmer]

bako, nice. i looked at steve coleman's site and here is the link to his essay. there is even some music notes on staff to see the basic forms that mirror the movements and show the physical representation. it moves into use and develpment of application. cool, glad you mentioned his name, bako.

JohnW400, bako has it nailed i think, you should check the link out.


Steve Coleman: Essays: Symmetrical Movement

as far as the term 'mirror image' i imagine there's other 'systems' or concepts that are similar and maybe just explained with different words or by a different person. i see that Coleman uses the word 'symmetry' and that's what i've heard, and i've seen the concept expanded 'vertically' and 'horizontally.' spirals, harmonic networks, spatial geometry...pretty academic stuff.