The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Please post the method or process you found most effective for learning and memorizing triads. It could be your own method, or one from a Jazz guitar book or method, a free PDF on the web, or a video on YouTube. The reason I ask the question (again) is that I seem to hit a wall with the amount of data I try to keep in my memory as I progress through the string sets.

    I'm thinking there are one or two tried and true ways to memorize triads so they stick. For instance, is it best to learn one string set, then move on to the next string set and "forget" about the first string set?

    Ed
    (I think I posted a variation of this question way back.)

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    What really helps with learning triads and arpeggios is simply being aware of how intervals are laid out on the fretboard. For example, if you play the root on any of the strings, the minor third will always be located here

    |-------|-------|-------|-------|-------|
    |-------|---R---|-------|-------|-m3--|


    Or here (depending on wich finger is playing the root)


    |-------|--m3--|-------|-------|-------|
    |-------|-------|-------|---R---|-------|


    With one exception when the root is on the G string

    |-------|-------|--m3--|-------|-------|
    |-------|-------|-------|---R---|-------|


    Once you can do that it's really easy to build the triads yourself, and I think you memorize things better that way. This skill is of course also useful for building scales.

  4. #3

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    For learning triads in position (rather than doing a lot of shifting on the neck):
    1. Learn your positions (CAGED, for example).
    2. Understand the theory behind triads (1-3-5, inversions, major, minor, etc)
    3. Work out different patterns of triads. For example simple ascending ones (C-E-G, D-F-A...), reversing the triad order (G-E-C, A-F-D...), inversions (E-G-C, F-A-D...) . The patterns are endless. The aim is to get these under your fingers so you can play an idea without thinking of every note separately. (Not just ascending pattens, of course (C D E F ...), but descending, circle of fifths, etc...)
    4. While doing 3, try applying it to a tune you know. Use a looper or BIAB.

  5. #4

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    Is there some sort of minor syllabus or sequence to learning triads? I think this is pedagogy. When we study martial arts we follow a program of study. Same think with Yoga. Same thing with Engineering. Ed

  6. #5

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    Thanks to everyone for your recommendations. I think I will look into articles about learning and practicing guitar. I'm also going to revisit my notes from my Classical Guitar lessons for ways to chunk learning triads into small bits. I hope to post the results if I find my path.

    Ed

  7. #6

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    I don't remember how I initially learned them, but I've catalogued the most efficient fingerings(according to my hand size) over time.
    I try to avoid the ones causing stretches, like a minor triad with the root on the low E and the third and fifth on the A string. You find the same with the major triad with the root and third on the E string and the fifth on the A string. My hands don't like them. But in some cases, when linking triads together, using passing tones or in certain context, there is no better option.

    When available, I use the "chord form" of triads, one note per string because that is also instantly usable in comping or chord soloing. If I can visualize that in the middle of a line, I always have the choice of playing it linearly or using it as a chord for some harmonic or rhythmic spice.

  8. #7

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    I just got going with Van Eps. It's quite a challenge at first with the picking he recommends. I also started the Mimi Fox arps.

    http://fluctua.free.fr/Guitar%20Arpe...s_Mimi-Fox.pdf

    I like authors who don't try to cover a broad range of topics. I thought I knew my arps and triads but these two are a reminder that I don't.

  9. #8

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    George Van Epps Guitar Method Book...not Harmonic Mechanisms for Guitar.

  10. #9

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    Some general fingerboard rules I use

    -Start from the nut, then go up the neck to the 12th fret
    --Start from the 1st string, go to the 6th string as needed (triad string sets 123, 234, 345, 456)
    --Start with C, go down circle of 4ths, (F, Bb, Eb etc)
    --Sequence of triads-M, m, dim, aug
    --sequence will always be Root, 1st inv, 2nd inversion, but given above rules, you may find 2nd inv first, then just follow the sequence for rest-Root, 1st inv
    --thus, putting it all together, for each string set, find the root and 1st 2 inversions following rules above (eg, Begin with C major nearest nut and first string set 123, that would be 2nd inversion -513 or GCE--then find Root position and first inversion on same string set. say and play each note in sequence from lowest to highest, also disregard order and say and play each note out of sequence, to rearrange the notes in room position, if at a 1st or 2nd inv

  11. #10

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    Matt Warnock's site has some good stuff on this. Particularly conceptualising triads as rootless voicings and practising through the 251 cycle. Triads really do offer a whole lot more in terms of harmony/ texture than I first realised. Check it out!

  12. #11

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    Bugs Bower...Chords & Progressions

    Van Eps..of course

    Walter Piston...Harmony....

    Many other books show the same but these are the ones I used when learning them...at my age..less books were around to learn from...

    good replies above...

    time on the instrument...

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddy b.
    George Van Epps Guitar Method Book...not Harmonic Mechanisms for Guitar.
    I have a PDF version of that book! Wonder how I forgot about it. It is in standard notation so some of us might have to create paper drawings of guitar necks. What I remember from trying the method was it moved very fast into complex triads that lost me. Probably I needed a teacher. Ed

  14. #13

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    I also found a PDF version Eddie Lang's method book, "Eddie Lang's Fingerboard Harmony for Guitar". In the first half of the book he deals extensively with triads on all string sets. I forgot I had this book too. I've been away from guitar allowing for a Repetitive strain injury (RSI) issue to heal. I think it is better now, at least for steel string electric playing, not Classical Guitar.

    http://www.djangobooks.com/ has a lot of long out of print music books, including Django Reinhardt books.

    Ed T.
    Last edited by edspyhill01; 12-10-2013 at 02:33 PM.

  15. #14

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    I learned what a triad was theoretically before I began actually playing them. It was neat on the one hand because I came up with chords that I just didn't see commonly used. On the other hand... I wasn't learning chords that were commonly used. haha.

    I just knew that I needed a 1-3-5 and went from there. Then I started learning more common fingerings.

    I remembered thinking how great those chords sounded compared to the old 5 chord (power chords). I was thinking, "I sound like a jazzer!"

    Then I discovered the 7th interval. ...and I thought "I sound like a jazzer!"

    Then I discovered drop chords. ...and I thought "I sound like a jazzer!"

    Then I discovered.... yeah... you see the pattern.

    In then end... I still don't sound like a jazzer. I am just enjoying the ride.

  16. #15

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    The condensed version:

    I studied major, minor, augmented, diminished as well as what I call prefixes (my terminology) mab5 and sus4
    All inversions on all 3 consecutive string combos for closed voicings.
    All inversions across the neck
    I played chord scales in the same fashion as well as 3 or 4 chords per string group.
    I worked with all manner of triad pairs.
    I researched what triads represent which chord tones as extensions (3 5 7, 5 7 9, 7 9 11, 9 11 13, 11 13 1, 13 1 3)
    I play around with triad over bass note chords and triad over triad chord.
    I practiced triads broken up as dyad arpeggios.
    I practiced triads with doublings.
    Triads voiced through diatonic chord cycles.
    A bit of work with triads drawn from scale pairs voiced through the same cycles.

    The open voicings are messier and appear on several string group spacings.
    Ex.

    C G X E X X

    C X G E X X

    C X G X E X

    As dyads

    C G E X X X

    With these I attempted to do all of the above

    Also triad sequences with passing notes and suspensions ect.
    Harmonizing simple songs in triads.
    A bit of harmonizing songs with triad over bass chords

    That's what I can think of for now.
    This is over a spread of time far longer than one day or one week.

    Knowing how to spell the chords and knowing the fingerboard well were
    2 fundamental factors that made it easier to retain things.

  17. #16

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    The Van Eps Harmonic Mechanisms book (Vol I) - coupled with the exercises in the Bergonzi book on triad pairs (Hexatonics) - really helped me to solidify those triads all over the neck.

  18. #17

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    Lots of mentions here for the George Van Eps book. There is a new thread looking at his method, with videos for help:

    https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/playe...od-videos.html

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Lots of mentions here for the George Van Eps book. There is a new thread looking at his method, with videos for help:

    https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/playe...od-videos.html
    +1!

  20. #19

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    I didn't feel like I really understood the guitar until after I mastered all of the triads in all inversions in all the keys. By really thinking carefully while playing each note, the patterns really emerged and all aspects of my playing improved. It all started because I imagined what someone like Joe Pass knew that I didn't know. Learning the triads seemed like a simple and logical area of study, and man, it was deep. I hope these videos help get you started!

    Here's a lesson on Major and Minor Triad Construction:


    Here's a lesson on Augmented and Diminished Triad Construction:


    Why study triads on the guitar?:


    The exercise of Major Triads in 3 inversions in all 12 keys, from the book "The Guitar Lesson Companion, Volume Two":
    Last edited by Susan Palmer; 12-19-2013 at 03:51 AM.

  21. #20

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    Spread triads are cool. Every other string -----5-3-1, 3-1-5, 1-5-3.

  22. #21

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    Thank to all the new posters for your advice.

    Current approach, which is a synthesis of all the things I've read in the past 2+ weeks.

    1) I'm working to memorize the Maj triads on the first string set, G - B - E strings.
    2) Then I will find all the Major I IV V chord progressions on that string set.
    3) TBD, probably the next string set, D - G - B strings.

    The Van Eps Method book assumes I know the Maj, Min, Dim & augmented triads. I don't.

    I printed out the first triad lessons in the 1930's Eddie Lang book because it is the one book I have with extensive triad lessons, examples and studies.

    Bako - probably similar to your system of learning.

    Susan - I'll check out your book.

    I hope to continue on with this and will post from time to time.

    Thanks again.


    Ed

    One resource I have to mention and thank is Rich Severson. His examples on how to use triad inversions was eye opening.
    Last edited by edspyhill01; 12-18-2013 at 07:47 PM.

  23. #22

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    Thanks for the videos Susan.

  24. #23

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    Susan. Interesting video with you playing all three inversions in all 12 keys. Thanks. Ed

  25. #24

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    Thanks, Ed. I've got to say that doing those exercises for all the triads/inversions in all the keys really changed how I view the guitar neck. It was one of the most helpful exercises I did to master the notes on the neck. I don't have big enough hands to play all the possibilities (skipping strings) on the guitar, but I encourage you to do that if you can!

  26. #25

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    Progress update:

    Working with the Eddie Lang book.

    Working through the major triads on first string set, G - B - E.

    Working on exercise at top of page 31 - play the three inversions at one fret which share the same note on the E-string. Example - F - Db - Bb. These three triads share the F-note.

    Next will be the three triads that share the same note on the B-string. Example - these three triads share the D-note on the B-string - G - Bb - D.

    I printed out a Circle of Fifths with the notes in each triad and say the notes out loud when playing each triad. Sort of tricking myself to memorize the notes in each triad.

    This feels productive.

    Ed