The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I am just getting into jazz playing and I am looking for more interesting ways of subbing chords or rather more interesting ground to work with. I know harmonic minors add alot of tension to chords, but are they often used as the basis for a chord progression in modern music? i.e., most songs seem to have a strong basis on the major scale and then subbing chords and adding tension notes, but do the chords themselves come out of a harmonic minor scale. I mean, from my understanding these other exotic sounding scales were the basis for classical music. Is that the case in jazz, if so, can some examples be given of standards that represent this idea?

    Thanks.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Jazz only uses the 5th mode of harmonic minor on a regular basis. Some modern composers are exploring the posibilities of this scale in their music, Kenny Wheeler, Dave Holland etc, but in a traditional sense most guys stick to the 5th mode.

    The fifth mode is used as a sub for a typical V chord, so over a G7 you could sub a G7b9,b13 chord, which is the fifth mode of harmonic minor.

    A lot of guys use this as their go to scale for V7's that resolve to a minor I chord, but you can also use it in a major key to get a different flavor in your dominant sound.

    MW

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjs720
    .. do the chords themselves come out of a harmonic minor scale. ... if so, can some examples be given of standards that represent this idea?
    Thanks.
    Jazz tunes don't often stay diatonic to just one scale. But there are lots of songs that portions of the tune has chords that could be considered coming from the harmonic minor. Let me open my real book starting with the songs titles that start with A...

    Here's one, Airegin, 1st 9 bars

    F- | C7 | F- | F7 | Bb- | F7 | Bb- | | Dbmaj7 ||

    That is based on chords from F harmonic minor except those F7 chords which function as dominants of the Bb-.

    So I didn't have to get far in the real book to find one.
    Last edited by fep; 12-18-2008 at 08:19 PM.

  5. #4

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    ok, so for the Harmonic Minor i have seen varying nomenclature for the scale formulas so i am not exactly sure which is the 5th mode. Is phrygian Major considered the fifth mode? if so, what is the 7th mode of this scale? my formula seems messed up. So would phrygian major be played over a dom b9 chord?

    How about the Harmonic Major, is that used often?

    Thanks alot for the quick responses!!!!! That was my first post and I am so excited I found this website. I just stumbled on it randomly, I have learned so much these last couple of days my head is throbbing.

  6. #5

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    Here's one, Airegin, 1st 9 bars

    F- | C7 | F- | F7 | Bb- | F7 | Bb- | | Dbmaj7 ||

    That is based on chords from F harmonic minor except those F7 chords which function as dominants of the Bb-.
    i am assuming you mean the aeolian mode #7 = harmonic minor mode

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjs720
    i am assuming you mean the aeolian mode #7 = harmonic minor mode
    Aoelian mode #7, I've never heard that term.

    I also haven't heard the harmonic minor being called harmonic minor mode.

    The terms could be correct I've just never heard them.

    The scale I'm referring to is from classical theory when they discuss natural minor, melodic minor and harmonic minor. (Coincidentally yesterday I had to sing those scales along with the modes for my ear training final. One on one with the teacher, and she'd say, "sing the harmonic minor scale", then say, "sing the mixolydian scale" etc.)

    The notes of an A harmonic minor would be: A B C D E F G# A

    The 5th mode of an A harmonic minor would be: E F G# A B C D E (which as m78w was saying, this works well over E domimant chords).

    Does that make sense?

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep

    Aoelian mode #7, I've never heard that term.

    ...

    The notes of an A harmonic minor would be: A B C D E F G# A

    The 5th mode of an A harmonic minor would be: E F G# A B C D E (which as m78w was saying, this works well over E domimant chords).

    Does that make sense?
    yes that makes complete sense. i guess what i am trying to do is take that harmonic minor and modulate it to get to the 2nd mode, 3rd mode, 4th mode, 5th mode, etc (i do not know how useful these other modes are). I am basically hearing from you guys that Harmonic Minor and the 5th mode are most prominent, correct? From what I see, the Harmonic Minor looks just like Aeolian except the 7 is natural (or the b7 is sharped), that makes it much easier for my brain to digest.

    So I think the question I really need answered for my brain to heal is:

    What modes of this harmonic minor should I become familiar with.

    Thanks a ton!!!

  9. #8

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    The 5th mode of the harmonic minor scale is also called the Phrygian Dominant scale and is commonly used in Spanish music and Jewish music. The formula is 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7 (as in fep's last post, E F G# A B C D = E phrygian dominant = A harmonic minor starting on the 5th degree, E). Another easy way to construct this scale is just take a natural minor scale and lower the 2 and raise the flat 3, i.e. E natual minor scale and flat the F# to F and raise the G to G#, the rest of the notes stay the same. This scale is implied by any progression that goes im7 to V7 (for example Am7 to E7 or, as in fep's example, Fm7 to C7). Being of the Hebrew tribe myself, I am somewhat partial to this scale and progression. Check it out and have fun with it.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjs720
    From what I see, the Harmonic Minor looks just like Aeolian except the 7 is natural (or the b7 is sharped), that makes it much easier for my brain to digest.

    So I think the question I really need answered for my brain to heal is:

    What modes of this harmonic minor should I become familiar with.

    Thanks a ton!!!
    Yep, what you say is correct, and if that's the easiest way for you to understand it, then go for it. It's not really different than the way I understand it, just semantics... I start with natural minor which is the same as Aeolian.

    As far as modes, I only conciously use it off of the 1st mode and the 5th, although as the chrds change and I stay with the scale one could say I'm playing other mode... I suppose. I don't think of modes when I play though. Some others might give you better insight on that question though.

    I sure like that 'exotic spanish' sound of the 5th mode though.
    Last edited by fep; 12-19-2008 at 12:30 PM.

  11. #10

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    Chords of the Harmonic minor scale:


  12. #11

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    The ones in jazz which you will run into are 1 and 5.
    But I don't see how you can propperly apply a scale without being able to play it anywhere, meaning you always learn all the modes.
    Remember when playing the minor, the main difference between the natural, harmonic and melodic minors, is the way we aproach the root.

  13. #12
    Melodic minor is another way to create interesting sounds. For example, in "Airegin" if you played Db melodic minor scale over the C7 chord.

    But modes are overemphasized, in my opinion. It's all well and good to learn the theory but knowledge of the modes doesn't help you with soloing or learning the positions on the fretboard.

  14. #13

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    Actually most would argue that helping you in soloing over harmonically difficult pieces is the most important reason to learn modes, but learn them propperly which is where most people make their mistake.
    Learn the notes and intervals in each mode so you can at every place in your fretboard lead into new scales quickly and instinctively.

  15. #14

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    Right... I know the modes so I wind up with different combinations of notes popping into my head. Over a minor 7th chord you should be able to instinctively think... nat 2, nat 6... nat 2, b6... b2, b6... b2, nat 6. You should know which intervals you can hit to produce certain qualities over certain chords and you should know how they'll lead back to your next chord (for instance the natural 2 over a minor chord will lead nicely into the 7th of your dominant chord while the b2 will lead back to your 5th). Now you don't have to actually be thinking Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian, Dorian b2 everytime you see a minor 7th chord, but the objective is to know the modes well enough that you know what you can play, what it looks like, and what it sounds like without really thinking.

  16. #15
    The modes represent the underlying harmonic structure. One can't be ignorant of them in any advanced form of music. But in my (humble) opinion, modes come from classical music (i.e. piano) and aren't the best way to learn your way around the guitar. For example, there are 7 modes but one can learn every note on the guitar from 5 chord positions. So a modal approach to guitar scales has a lot of redundancy built into it which comes from the piano keyboard but isn't useful for the guitar.

    Moreover, modal thinking makes one less focused on melody. Instead of asking "which mode should I use for this chord", one should focus on developing a melodic sensibility that transcends particular chord changes. I believe this distinguishes guitar players from other jazz instrumentalists.

    But that's my "humble" opinion. I'd love to hear what you guys think!

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by tapintoamerica
    The modes represent the underlying harmonic structure. One can't be ignorant of them in any advanced form of music. But in my (humble) opinion, modes come from classical music (i.e. piano) and aren't the best way to learn your way around the guitar. For example, there are 7 modes but one can learn every note on the guitar from 5 chord positions. So a modal approach to guitar scales has a lot of redundancy built into it which comes from the piano keyboard but isn't useful for the guitar.

    Moreover, modal thinking makes one less focused on melody. Instead of asking "which mode should I use for this chord", one should focus on developing a melodic sensibility that transcends particular chord changes. I believe this distinguishes guitar players from other jazz instrumentalists.

    But that's my "humble" opinion. I'd love to hear what you guys think!
    well, like you said, the modes aren't the best way to learn the guitar fretboard. but i don't think that's the way people apply them...

    they open up your mind to different sounds, i think. and that in turns, helps in improvisation. the point is learning all the notes on the fretboard with those 5 chord positions and then apply the knowledge of the modes to see different ways to connect the dots, thus producing different sounds.

    the point isn't thinking "which mode should i use for this chord" but knowing there are different sounds and using the knowledge to accomplish that. like DMatthewsBand07 said "the objective is to know the modes well enough that you know what you can play, what it looks like, and what it sounds like without really thinking."

    i hope i got my point across. i have the basic idea, i'm just having some trouble putting it into words.

  18. #17
    yes i agree with what you say about connecting the dots. And modes are very useful for generating new chords (which is what this thread was about, so my words were a bit of a digression, I admit). I was only cautioning against overly focusing on modes since they are, after all, simply a logical construct for organizing the harmonies embedded in a scale, while music itself is something else.

    cheers!

  19. #18

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    I think modes are a small part of what jazz musicians need to learn and understand but when the chips are down and you are soloing, do you really think much about modes? I, for one, can't play much of anything with that approach. I gotta have the melody going in my head to make any improvisation I try to do make musical sense to me. I guess I am primarily an ear player and I rely mostly on my ear and the many, many years I have spent listening to and transcribing from my favorite jazz players. (mostly horn and piano and very few guitarists). IMHO, training your ear and as Pierre might say, time on the instrument, are much more important than a modal approach to impov. These comments are not intended to offend anyone and they truly only represent my own personal experience.

    wiz

  20. #19

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    If you have a change for example Amaj7 Dmaj7 Em7 A7 Dm7 Dmaj
    You have the scales Amaj Amaj Dmaj Dmaj Amin Amaj that you are playing looking purely at ionian roots. If you understand the modes you recognize that the Em7 comes from the Dmaj and Em7 is E dorian A7 is myxolydian and Dm7 is the 4 in the Amin which you could also look at as D dorian.

    Knowing your modes makes improvising over a new chord patern easier.

  21. #20

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    I use modes all the time as a basis for creating new lines and for just getting around a new tune (improvising that is). eg. Against a G7 for an altered sound, my usual options are C harmonic minor, G# melodic minor or G# dim, wholetone scale, etc.. For an unaltered sound, the G mixolydian, lydian sudominant, etc. with arpeggio subs, chromatic approach, etc. etc.

    What this gives me is options as to how far in or far out I want to be at that time. There are 12 notes surrounding a chord's root (the chromatic universe) and this is one way of incorporating the use of these in my playing.

    Nowadays, I find I play hybrid scales using bits of a couple of modes in an improvised line and it usually comes down to; do I want to flat the sixth or leave it natural, etc.? and down to my ear like Howie says. For me it's an organized method to get where I'm going and to do some exploring. Hope this makes sense.

    Gary

  22. #21
    I do use those modes also, to achieve altered sounds. As has been said here, it is a way to generate new sounds but it is very important to internalize them so that the playing becomes instinctive. I don't think there's much disagreement about that overall.

    Sometimes I wonder if I have too much theory in my head. I think when I first approached jazz I thought in terms of theory first and practice second. i.e. good playing was largely a matter of having good ideas for music based on advanced harmony. Now I realize that is only part of it i.e. maybe it is more important for us to *first* develop an intuitive connection between one's fingers and one's brain, and *then* develop the ideas within the brain. As of now I am putting down my "modal" thinking and trying to play what I can sing, ideally in real time. It frees up my playing, both harmonically and rhythmically. Some of it encompasses modal ideas, of course, but I am less focused on "is the 6th there in the chord or not, is there a #5 AND #11 or simply #5 or #5 AND 9", etc. Perhaps for some players this is an obvious point but for me it certainly has not been.

  23. #22

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    That is so true tapintoamerica. When I first got into jazz, I had no idea what to play to changes but I did know that I could scat to them. So I tried slowing down my scat singing and learned to play those lines on guitar. It was much later that I really got into the theory. When you think of it, that's probably how the early jazz players learned to improvise.

    I find working with theory helps you progress because some tonalities and note combinations are not natural to the ear. The ear will internalize new tonalities and new motifs and move you forward expanding your options.

    Never enough time

    Gary