ways to handle a f#-7b5 / b7b9 in a 4-beat measure

[7Flat9]

Anyone have any fresh ideas on this? All I know is:
1. F# dim whole tone
2. G Mag sounds good to me
3. So does E mag
4. The best I've found is a B Spanish Scale.

Does anyone know of a better way to skate this change? Thanks

[mr. beaumont]

E harmonic minor?

What's a Mag scale?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Are you saying the measure is:

|F#m7b5 / B7b9 / |

And is mag = maj, hmm?

And what is the Spanish scale?

[7Flat9]

Its short for Major scale

[7Flat9]

Don't have a guitar with me but going on memory, a Spanish is H,-3, H, W, H, W, W

[7Flat9]

thanks---I'll try e-harm minor

[7Flat9]

Yes, that's what the measure is. Yes, mag = maj. Sorry for the typo. Can you think of anything that works?

[fep]

Arpeggios work great. Or, arpeggio over the m7b5 chord and altered scale over the dominant chord.

Check out post #102 of this thread, there is a video and notation:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...tml#post283787

Those lines are over | Dm7b5 / G7 / | Cm7 / / / |, but I think in almost every line I include the b9 over the G7 chord.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

What chord is next -- perhaps E minor or E major?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Don't have a guitar with me but going on memory, a Spanish is H,-3, H, W, H, W, W

That's the fifth mode of harmonic minor. So B Spanish has the same notes as E harmonic minor.

[docbop]

You mean G melodic minor that would give you a F#7 altered sound and could play that through the whole bar as long as you have strong resolution on the (assumed) follow I chord. Robben Ford used to do that all the time playing with Mile Davis skip the II chord and start on the V.

[Tag]

Anyone have any fresh ideas on this? All I know is:
1. F# dim whole tone
2. G Mag sounds good to me
3. So does E mag
4. The best I've found is a B Spanish Scale.

Does anyone know of a better way to skate this change? Thanks

A real pure way is just to view F#-7b5 as Amin13. (Or A-6) You can play A dorian or A melodic minor over that, AND the upcoming B7, or go to a B altered, B1/2 whole diminished, or B Wholetone. You can always think of a min II-V as a Min iv-V. The II and the IV chord have the same function in both major and minor keys, and are almost always interchangeable. You always hear guys like Martino and Benson playing V lines over IV chords and IV lines over Vs.

[7Flat9]

Hey, thanks---I'll give it a try

Arpeggios work great. Or, arpeggio over the m7b5 chord and altered scale over the dominant chord.

Check out post #102 of this thread, there is a video and notation:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...tml#post283787

Those lines are over | Dm7b5 / G7 / | Cm7 / / / |, but I think in almost every line I include the b9 over the G7 chord.

[7Flat9]

I think so. the tune is But Beautiful

[7Flat9]

Sorry, meant to reply to you (new to this)--yes, the next chord (I think!) is E-. Tune is but beautiful.

What chord is next -- perhaps E minor or E major?

[randalljazz]

hit the guide tones: A - E - D# - (A > G or C > B)

[Reg]

Try hearing or thinking about different methods of approaching.

As with almost everything in music... you need a reference, a starting point to create relationships and develop.
You need something for what you play to have a relationship with... to help the listener... even you, understand what your playing, make some sense, sound good, bad or whatever.

There are many approaches... concepts with applications.

You can mechanically come up with collection of notes from each chord... have that be your reference. Then use those notes with some type of concept... and create applications... different versions of what you play using those notes,(as reference). Pretty simple... but will work.

Examples of reference could be... The chord(s) or any part of the chord(s)...
The reference could be the Tune, the melody, The next chord, the chord before, the basic tonality of tune or chord progression. What you played yesterday... what you play can become the reference... and the chords become a reference to what your playing but that takes some skill.

The point is you need a starting point... a reference, and be aware of that reference. How you organize what you play in relationship to that reference... is the fun part. You can have more than one reference, (there usually are many going on simultaneously), but as with any technical skill, that takes practice... time on the skill.

I personally usually have target references within a single concept reference. Example could be... I decide to use a V I ... harmonic reference. I approach the basic tonal center of tune with a dominant - Tonic reference... ( I know pretty basic, but I want the idea understandable)... So the tunes first reference is to one tonal center, lets say Emin.

I can use your F#-7b5 B7b9, I could even just say "E". I decide to make B7 to E... my basic reference. (V I).
So everything I play while soloing... has that basic reference. All my choices of determining note choices and how I use them while soloing have beginning reference to B7 to E. The notes may change... but still have reference to V I and with starting reference of "E".

My target references would be what I hear or choose to hear as important target points of tune... generally very mechanical... can be as simple as the actual physical time... repeats, bridges... I usually use the "Form" of the tune to help organize. The melody and harmony are the same to me... there both going on all the time. I'm not bringing in rhythm.

So I can approach any chord in the tune with a V chord. I could approach your F#-7b5 with a V chord...C#7b13 to F#-7b5... then approach B7b9 with a V chord... F#7#9 to B7b9. So now I could have...

(C#7b13), F#-7b5, (F#7#9), B7b9.... (E-9).

The use of approaching V chords has a very mechanical method of organization... creates very strong reference. Very easy to add use of other harmonic and melodic concepts with.

Reg

[7Flat9]

Many thanks to all who offered help on my question. I came away with a boatload of cool ideas, some of which I can hear right away, others will require further ear training to dig. But thanks, everyone!