Jazz Chord Subsitutions

[mr. beaumont]

hey, let's post some fun subs. here's one i got from a friend (and fellow guitar teacher)

in a ii V I in C

Dm9 (x5 3 5 5 5 ) to E/Bb (sub for G7) to C6/9 (x 32233)

here's the E/Bb voicing 6x6454 ...yeah, you gotta be careful with that Bb on the bottom if you're playing with other instruments...but a cool sound...and nice chromatic movement on top

so why does it work? well in that chord you got Bb, Ab, B, and E, which gives you a b9, a third, and a 13 as far as subbing for the G7, so that's all kosher. but you got a minor third on the bottom...should be yuck, but on the bottom, not so bad...i think of it as coming from the G blues scale, a simple yet tasty choice over an altered dominant...

so lets post some fun subs...

[wizard3739]

Hey Mr. Beaumont! this is one of my favorite subjects for interesting comping! Your substitute is a very cool sound.

Here are a few basic chord substitution concepts I learned over the years. I know this info is a lot for one session but it is good material for backing a singer or comping in general. Always remember when using these concepts, your ear is your best judge of how well they work!
best wishes

1) Major chord - Any major of the same name will work.
example: for C Major -----> CMaj7, CMaj9, C6, C6/9, etc.....

2) For Dom7

a) any Dom7 of the same root name will work
example: for C7 -----> Caug7, C9, C13, C7+9, C7b9, C7+5,
C7b5, C7b5+9, C7sus4, etc....

b) You may count up a b5 and use a dom 7 chord type.
example: for G7 -------> Db7

c) You may count up a 5th and use a minor 7 chord.
example: for G7--------> D-7

3) For a minor chord - Any minor chord of the same root name will work.
example: for Cm -------> C-6, C-aug, Cm(Maj7), C-7,
C-11, C-9, etc....

4) Another Major concept - play a scale progression to the 3rd degree.
example: For FMaj -------> FMaj7 - Gmi7 - Ami7
(both ascending or descending)

5) You may progress in 1/2 steps (up or Down) if the chord type is the same.
example: A-7--->Ab-7---> G-7---> Gb-7
note: This concept also works for major followed by Dom7 a 5th higher.

6) For Dim chord - Use a Major derivation after a major chord.

a) In effect, when a major chord is followed by a diminished chord 1/2 step higher (GMaj7 --->G#Dim), use a major chord with the root in the base.

b) if a major chord is followed by a diminished chord of the same root name (GMaj7--->GDmi), you may sustitute a minor 7th which is a major 3rd higher than the major chord root. You may also substitute a minor 7th chord which is 1/2 step lower than the major chord root.

7) You may substitute a Dim chord for a 7b9 chord by counting up a 5th.
To substitute a 7b9 chord for a Dim chord, count down a 5th.

[aPAULo]

b) You may count up a b5 and use a dom 7 chord type.example: for G7 -------> Db7

Just to make sure, this is tritone substitution right?

[wizard3739]

Yes aPaulo, you are correct!

[mr. beaumont]

wiz...

for 6a, you say use a major chord with the root in the bass, but what root-- not the same as the initial major chord? the same as the diminished chord? so like Gmaj-->G#maj of some sort?

i'll throw in another basic one on the dininished front. When you have a major chord (Gmaj7) followed by a dim a 1/2 step higher (G#dim) you can often use a dom. 7 a maj. 3rd lower (2 steps) than the root of the Dim chord. so in this instance, try E7.

and sticking with the dominant sound, i'll turn the vi chord in a progression into a dom. of the same name a lot (so in Cmajor, Aminor becomes A7) that's another pretty common sub...

by the way wiz, thanks for playing along. it's fun to see all of these out there...good for beginners to see and fogeys like me to remember

[FunkyE9th]

I can understand how these subs work in solo arrangements, but how does it work in a trio envirionment or when playing with a piano who is also comping?

I understand how Am in place of a D7 works (i.e. gives you D9). I see this more as embellishing a chord rather than a sub, assuming the bass player keeps walking on D7.

I've been learning some subs lately, but in a solo arrangement context. So I don't know it works if I do a tritone sub and the keyboard (or bass player) player does not do a tritone sub.

-FunkyE9th

[mr. beaumont]

well, if you're playing with a paino player you've gotta be careful...either work out a chart ahead of time or lay back and pare those voicings down to the essentials. i sub most often in solo arrangements or when i'm the sole chordal instrument...

but if you think arpeggios when soloing, subs can be a tasty choice then as well, especially with a good accompanyist who knows how to egg you on AND stay out of the way at the same time...

[seanlowe]

Otherwise; just dont play with the pianist!!! Once you've jammed with a good player a few times, they tend to get the hang of what you are thinking; but the key to letting off-the-cuff substitutions work is space, or a close link between the players involved. Hence why if you're playing with a big band and you do even a commonplace sub; like a #4 into a major7, you will get glares immediately

[kulzak]

How about someone explaining what " Chord Substitution " are and what rules if any apply. I probably know a few but don't quite grasp the concept. Tri tone vs. the other types...

Thank you

[Jazzarian]

How about someone explaining what " Chord Substitution " are and what rules if any apply. I probably know a few but don't quite grasp the concept. Tri tone vs. the other types...

Thank you

Wizard did a very good job above. Perhaps you didn't scroll up high enough?


Think in terms of a third up or a third down for chord substitutes. The tritone sub is simply replacing the current dom7 with a dom7 a diminished 5th above.

[Dennoow]

1) With a long lasting minor chord (over 2 bars for instance) you can play chromatically down from the root. For instance Emin - Em/maj 7 - Em7 - Emin 6. That's a fun substitution to use IMO. it lends itsself for the harmonic minor and melodic minor very well and it's more interesting than just play a minor chord 2 bars long.

2) Minor chords can be substituted for half diminished chords with the same root. So Em7 --> Emin 7b5. This is interesting because it then apears to become a minor ii-V-I progression, it doesn't, the V still resolves to major( just as smoothly).

[check1]

Ok, i got a newb question. Seeing as how you are in C (assuming Cmajor) what happens when you use that E/Bb seeing as how Ab and Bb aren't in the Cmajor scale, as far improvising goes.

by the way, can somebody provide the voicings for these chords from the jazz theory book for the melodic minor modes:

II - Dsusb9
III - EbMaj#5
IV - F7#11
V - Cmaj/min/G
VII - B7 alt

thanks

[mr. beaumont]

i think G alt.(Ab melodic minor) or G blues over the E/Bb.

[check1]

Ok, you had me at the G blues because i always thought of a blues as a pentatonic with an added tritone. That would G-A#-C-C#-D-F. That would be only 3 notes on C major and 2 chromatic notes, and the Ab or Eb of the chord isn't in either the G blues or C major. Is it best to just omit the Cmaj scale completely with a substitution like that and just build a scale over the new chord?

[mr. beaumont]

right on. that's part of playing the changes-- treating different chords...well...differently.

the onlytime i really think "key centers" is if the changes are really flying by.

[perhapsguitar1234]

Here's a useful and easy concept to understand. When you have a dominant chord, lets say C7, you can take either the 3rd, 5th, or 7th, of that chord and make it the root. You can play a Bbmaj7 chord, a G-7add9 chord, and a E-7b5 chord.

C E G Bb
Bb D F A (root is 7th of C7, 3rd is 2nd of C7, 5th is the 4th of C, and 7th is the maj 6th of C7.
G Bb D F A (same as Bbmaj7 but with a G in the bass)
E G Bb D (root is the 3rd of C7, 3rd is the 5th of C7, 5th is 7th of C7, and the 7th is the 9th of C7)

this concept is just taking each note of a dominant chord, or any chord and having it be the root. For example using the same 4 chords, you can have the band playing in G-7, you use the same concept and you can use the C7 to bring out other avaliable tensions.

Also once you understand this you can use your own chord voicings of each of the 4 chords and play them over C7 or Bbmaj7, G-7add9, and
E-7b5.

Hope this makes scence.

-Chris

[m78w]

My favorite ii-V-I sub is:

Dm7/G7/Cmaj7

becomes

Ebm7Ab7/Abm7Db7/Cmaj7/Em7

thanks Bill Evans!

MW

[rays_all4G]

i'm all new to this site and i'm so happy that i've found this world...

i hope that i can be accepted as a friend and contribute a part of my knowledge too, even though i've such a long, long, long, lonnng way to go to begin to sound like a master. I love my guitar so much that im happy to endure a journey and take you guys with me... these tips are fantastic, thank you so much .

[gravitas]

I'd forgotten about this thread.

Here are a few that I like:

Minor6/9 Root sub: Over a Dominant7 chord, I like to play a minor6/9 chord a semi tone up (ie, rooted on the b9). Say you take a D7 chord at the fifth position, play an Ebminor6/9 chord at the sixth position and the tones you get are the b9, 3, 7, and #9.

Backcycling over minor chords:

I think it's been mentioned already, but this is a goodie. You can treat any minor chord as if it is the tonic of a scale and play the V of that chord. A Bar of AMin can become Amin-E7, a bar of BMin can become Bmin-F7, etc.

Some intereting extensions of the tritone sub:

1. Melodic Minor Displacement: If you're blowing over a dominant chord, you can play from the melodic minor tonic a fourth below/fifth above the dominant. This works for chords rooted on the A string particularly well, as you can just play over the most stereotypical jazz box position there is.

The way the tritone sub plays into this is that, if you're playing a dominant chord progression where the roots follow the circle of fifths (à la Rhythm Changes), you can use this melodic minor over A string-rooted dominant chord concept to play over your tritone sub chord as well.

So, in the progression C7/F7/Bb7 you could play G Melodic Minor, Gb Melodic Minor, F Melodic Minor. You could play the same phrase three times just a semi tone down! Obviously, you don't always wan't to be playing Melodic Minor licks a semi tone apart, but what you have here is a really easy think that sounds hip in context.

2. Double tritone sub over minor chords: I snagged this idea off of Ed Bickert. If you can backcycle over a minor chord and play a dominant chord as if it is the V of that minor chord, you can apply the tritone sub to that backcycled V. Over DMin you can play Eb7, Over GMin7 you can play Ab7. It makes for some really interesting tonalities in that it "breaks" you of the temptation to play melodic minor over every minor chord; it yields the b9 and the b13. Neat, huh?

[m78w]

Here are some of my favs over the first section of Rhythm Changes:

Original chords

Bbmaj7G7/Cm7F7/Bbmaj7G7/Cm7F7/

Fm7Bb7/Ebmaj7Ab7/Bbmaj7G7/Cm7F7/

Here's a cool change over the first 6 bars:

F#7B7/E7A7/D7G7/C7F7/

Bbmaj Bb7/Ebmaj7Ab7/ etc

or

Abm7Db7/Gbm7B7/Bbmaj7G7/Cm7F7

or

Abm7/Db7/Gbm7/B7/

E7/Ebmaj7Ab7/etc

last one:

C7F7/Bb7Eb7/Ab7Db7/Gb7B7

Fm7Bb7/ etc

MW

[kmillen]

This is a nice forum with many creative voicing ideas.

I've always been fond (not necessarily proficient) of I 6/9 resolutions.

Fm11 E7#9#11 Eb6/9


[CHORD]
Fm11
||---|---|---|---|---|--1|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--4|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--3|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|--1|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--2|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/CHORD]
[CHORD]
E7#9#11
||---|---|---|---|---|--1|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--4|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|--3|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|--1|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|--2|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/CHORD]


[CHORD]
Eb 6/9
||---|---|---|---|---|--4|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|--3|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|--1|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|--1|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|--2|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/CHORD]