The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Wondering about some particular grips I see frequently in MW's CM's.

    one example: X X 2 2 3 3. I notice this grip used extensively by Matt but not in a lot of other CM's; sure is easy to play and slide around but I'm not always sure of the chord. In this example is it an Em 11 with no 5, 9 ??

    Sailor

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Hey Sailor,
    That is the "jack of all trades" grip. Depending on the root it can be many things.

    For example, with those exact notes you mentioned, E A D G, that could be:

    Em11
    F6/9
    F#alt(b9,#9,#5)
    G6/9
    Am11
    Bbmaj6
    Bm7(b6)
    C6/9
    Db7alt(b9,#9,b5,#5)
    Dm11

    MW

  4. #3
    I'm glad you are the one who responded first Matt - I see this common grip more in your CM's than anywhere else so I was surprised that it is so widely used; certainly the easiest to play and move around.

    Although it can be so many chords, is it used more often for some?? Also each example you gave is obviously missing some chord tones. I guess I'm asking where the conventional use of this grip is used the most and what chord tones are most frequently omitted?, or most common chord name????

    Kind of vague question I know.

    Thanks Sailor

  5. #4

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    I getcha.

    I would mostly use that particular grip, EADG as these chords:

    Em7, Dm11, Am11, C6/9, F6/9, G6/9

    so the minor and major7 chords.

    Also, this grip is easily moved to other string sets like:

    x7778x

    or

    12121212xx

    Try taking this chord through a scale, for example C major, on the top four strings.

    So:

    xx0011 Dm7

    xx2233 Em7

    xx3455 Fmaj7(#11)

    xx5567 G7

    xx7788 Am7

    xx991010 Bm7b5

    xx10101212 Cmaj7

    Then try the same notes on a different string set, it's a great Ed Bickert, Lenny Breau type sound.

    MW
    Last edited by m78w; 11-05-2008 at 09:40 PM.

  6. #5
    Thanks for this great lesson Matt! I just played all grips given. This is going to change my playing a lot if I can get my mind around chording like this.

    Why don't you see this in Arnie Berle or Jody Fisher books, or in other peoples CM's?? Is this modern, or advanced?? I think it's a little hard because of all the omitted chord tones and inversions; especially since most of the jazz songs I play have 5th and 6th string roots still. I really dig this stuff and I'm starting to sound jazzy!

    Sailor

  7. #6

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    It's definately a more open sound. If you can go back and listen to any recording of McCoy Tyner with Trane in the mid 60's and his comping and soloing is full of these grips.

    They're traditionally called 4th grips, or the "So What" grips, as they are the first two chords of So What.

    I like these chords a lot because of the openess of their sound, they're not as definative as drop 3 or drop 2 chords, which gives you more leeway to work with.

    MW

  8. #7

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    Very nice lesson, Matt! This is one of my favorite chords because of the versatility it offers.

    wiz

  9. #8

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    Glad you dug it!

    MW

  10. #9
    How about a short simple lesson on these grips at this site or MW's??
    (like in the context of a progression?)

    Sailor

  11. #10

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    I can post a sample of this in this thread tonight through a tunes, how about over a blues in F?

    MW

  12. #11

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    great information again thank you Matt, on the other hand I guess it should be xx991010 for Bm7b5 which corresponds to xxBEAD. For fingerings I suppose you prefer to use the index and the middle finger, right?
    [chord]

    ---|---|---|---|---|-m-|---|---|---|---|---|
    ---|---|---|---|---|-m-|---|---|---|---|---|
    ---|---|---|---|-i-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
    ---|---|---|---|-i-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
    ---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
    ---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

    [/chord]

    cheers

  13. #12
    Matt - any lesson would be cool! I really want to understand these grips, so whatever tune you think is the most instructive would be great. I think the obvious questions that will come up with us "beginners" is the naming of these chords and how you arrive at what tones to be omitted. Certainly doesn't follow the 3rds and 7ths rule, right???

    Sailor

  14. #13
    Gokalp - I use 1 -2-3-4 for these.

    Sailor

  15. #14

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    Here's a couple of examples of the "So What" voicings over a blues in F. I kept the rhythms very simple so feel free to change them as much as you want.

    MW

  16. #15

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    As for fingerings you should use 1-1-2-2 on the top four strings, and 1-1-1-2, for the middle four.

    MW

  17. #16
    Love it! I'll spend some time on this. How is second chord on "More outside" a B7?

    Also you don't like the feel of 1-2-3-4 when playing these chords?? I think they play more clearly.

    Thanks a lot, Sailor

  18. #17

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    The B7 is the tri-tone sub of F7 and leads by half-step into the Bb7 chord.

    also, I use 1122 because it allows me to keep my third and fourth fingers free to add other notes to the chord.

    MW

  19. #18
    sorry to be a pain; the Bb in the F7 sounds strange to me even in "plain Jane".

    It's not a Maj 11?? I'll get this soon but all the chords sound a little "outside" to me right now.

    Sailor

  20. #19

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    Yeah, that gives it a 7sus4 sound, which is why these chords are so often described as "open" sounding, becasue they are sometimes neither major nor minor, but occupy a space somewhere in between.

    MW

  21. #20
    Thanks Matt - I'll get this stuff soon; I can read and play it it just sounds a little off to me. I don't listen to enough jazz, that's the problem - I still like my Bach!

    Sailor

  22. #21

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    Just think of it as an unresolved suspension, Bach would be proud.

    MW

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by m78w
    I getcha.

    I would mostly use that particular grip, EADG as these chords:

    Em7, Dm11, Am11, C6/9, F6/9, G6/9

    so the minor and major7 chords.

    Also, this grip is easily moved to other string sets like:

    x7778x

    or

    12121212xx

    Try taking this chord through a scale, for example C major, on the top four strings.

    So:

    xx0011 Dm7

    xx2233 Em7

    xx3455 Fmaj7(#11)

    xx5567 G7

    xx7788 Am7

    xx991010 Bm7b5

    xx10101212 Cmaj7

    Then try the same notes on a different string set, it's a great Ed Bickert, Lenny Breau type sound.

    MW
    MATT,
    I've only been a member for a few days, but I think this is what I need and can handle . As I stated in my profile, I've been playing for about 45 yrs (Pro 30), but at 67 I lost my hearing in one ear and am losing my grip to acute Arthritis in both hands so drop 2 chords I can still handle. My question is-Where can I get a book on Drop 2 grids to quickly learn to apply them...HELP!!

  24. #23

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    Here's a link to a lesson on Drop 2's

    Drop 2 Chords & Voicings For Guitar

    Also, here's a page I put together for my students, check it out.

    MW