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  1. #1

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    Who out there has one of Randy Vincent's books. The Drop 2 Book or Three Note Voicings & Beyond?

    I'm curious if one is a better start than the other, where they might overlap (if they do), etc. I'm leaning towards starting with the Drop 2 Book to further develop my limited Drop 2 knowledge. I play drop 2s quite a bit, but I don't have them down as much as I'd like (more inversions, voice leading, soloing with them, etc).

    But then I saw the 3 Note Voicing book. I might just get both, but wanted to see how they compare.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    In my opinion Drop-2 are more important voicings to master, because you can use them with any right-hand technique you'd like. many drop 3 voicings needs to be played in akward fingerings when using a pick, some you can't really use without the fingers (or some sort of hybrid picking). So I'd say, just because of technical matters of the guitar, go with drop 2 first.

    That's on the voicings themself. I don't know these books, so can't help with that.

  4. #3

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    For drop 2s (and everything else in all string sets) I would get 'Chord Connections' by Robert Brown. Combine that with your standards and a willingness to use your new chords in those standards and you need nothing else. Randy's book is ok but Brown's worked better for me

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    ... many drop 3 voicings needs to be played in akward fingerings when using a pick, some you can't really use without the fingers (or some sort of hybrid picking). So I'd say, just because of technical matters of the guitar, go with drop 2 first.
    Agree, but the other book mentioned was about 3-note voicings, not drop-3 voicings. I have both, and they are both great. The book on 3-note voicings is very useful even without the drop-2 book, since those 3-note shell voicings can be used as a starting point for amost everything, both comping ands chord soloing, and they make excellent voice leading possible.

  6. #5

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    I have a ton of stuff that I am working on right now, but I added both of those books to my Christmas list! I have been working on a lot of improv stuff lately learning a lot of lines and working on my bebop chops and on Trane changes. By Christmas time I should be ready for a change of pace! ;-)

  7. #6

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    I have both books and they are great. Before I had these books, I was working out of Barry Galbraith's Guitar Comping book for a while. It's an amazing book and I am able to analyze most of the chord choices, but there wasn't any elaboration on the things played. I think that's all good and it didn't make me think less of the book at all.

    The Randy Vincent books have many examples and the how-to of it all. I think it's a great combination and everything is realistic. It all depends on what is resonating with you right now as a player.

  8. #7

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    The Drop 2 got delivered today.

    Any suggestions on the best way to go through to get the most out of it? I ask that because on an amazon review, I saw something about a recommendation on skipping to chapter 4 for practice after each section...or something along those lines.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinopass View Post
    The Drop 2 got delivered today.

    Any suggestions on the best way to go through to get the most out of it? I ask that because on an amazon review, I saw something about a recommendation on skipping to chapter 4 for practice after each section...or something along those lines.
    I too have the book and the chords are beautiful. But I don't know how to use the book. What is the best way to learn, apply and practice the material?

  10. #9

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    I have both books an they are both excellent! I am going through them as I see something interesting from a voice-leading viewpoint. The concepts and study approaches are very thorough and easy to grasp. I like Randys' books and I don't know of any other books that are as well written for studying voicing concepts. There is a lot of really good study material here.

    wiz

  11. #10

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    Bret Willmotts book of harmonic extensions for guitar is an excellent study for guitar voicings and comping!You will find different combinations of chordal extensions and combinations for guitar playing!

  12. #11

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    Thank you Jam8, the book you mentioned is excellent! I just got it today and my quick review tells me it is very good for voicing studies.

    wiz

  13. #12

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    Youre welcome.... there are so many books out there that can really overwhelm us due to the information explosion of the internet,but the important thing is to get the useful information that will suit our way of playing music....HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!

  14. #13

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    You guys have peaked my curiosity here. Nothing like a well recommended technique book to add to my collection. I haven't posted much on JG. I must say that I really enjoy the continuous learning and improvement ethos that I see hear from all of you. You are all very helpful.

  15. #14
    I was looking at Bret Willmotts book of harmonic extensions on Amazon, it looks really good. Anyone have it and can you expand on it a little more, like why you like it or don't like it.
    thx
    Ken

  16. #15

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    I have the book and love it. Even within the limitations it sets it goes much farther and in greater detail than guitar books generally do.
    There are many overwhelming charts and I am not convinced that the idea of superimposition of this chord in this context
    yields new harmony X is the easiest and clearest way to teach the info but I can say that it changed the way I deal with voicings and melodies as well.
    I believe it is a worthwhile purchase even if it takes 3 years to be able to deal with it's density.

  17. #16
    Hey Bako,

    Thanks for the insight, so does it help comping more or chord melody in yoru opinion? From what i've seen on the examples on amazon it looks like it adds alot of chord movement?
    Ken

  18. #17

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    Hey guys: How about starting a separate thread on topic for Bret Willmott's book? I don't have it (yet) but I just got Randy Vincent's and would like to see this thread develop into more depth and perhaps help with study.

  19. #18
    Good idea Wisdom, i think i'm going to purchase this book

  20. #19

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    I own and like them both.

  21. #20
    Nuff Said Guest
    Members that have used the book, what are your views about:"Three-Note Voicings and Beyond" by randy vincent

    Thanks in advance
    Nuff

    Books by Jazz Guitarist San Francisco Bay Area Performer Randy Vincent

  22. #21

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    I haven't gotten anywhere yet in the Drop 2 book. It's packed with lot of great information. But the way it's presented isn't clicking with me for some reason.

  23. #22

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    Hallpass, you might try the "barry harris method for guitar" which covers the same voicings as the randy vincent book but lays everything out with a very different theoretical underpinning. I too had the drop 2 book and it didn't quite click until I started on Barry Harris.

    Nuff said: the three note voicings book covers alot more ground than the drop 2 book. Basically it's everything else you need for comping that's not drop 2. Closed and open triads, shell voicings with extensions, cuartal voicings, drop 2 minus one note, etc... These two books alone are a lifetime's worth of knowledge!

  24. #23

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    I was thinking about this same question today, and found this thread.

    My take on it is that you are going to learn both, so start with less complexity: three note voicings. They will give you a good foundation, as many drop voicings are just triads and 1, 3, 7 shells with another note added.

    Put another way, a three note chord is 3/4 of a four note chord. Overlapping certain triads and 1, 3, 7 shells gives you a four note seventh chord.

    I suppose the exceptions would be if you don't like the sound of three note chords, or you need fuller voicings immediately.

    Is my thinking overly reductive?
    Last edited by Jonzo; 09-07-2012 at 04:27 PM.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzo View Post
    I was thinking about this same question today, and found this thread.

    My take on it is that you are going to learn both, so start with less complexity: three note voicings. They will give you a good foundation, as many drop voicings are just triads and 1, 3, 7 shells with another note added.

    Put another way, a three note chord is 3/4 of a four note chord. Overlapping certain triads and 1, 3, 7 shells gives you a four note seventh chord.

    I suppose the exceptions would be if you don't like the sound of three note chords, or you need fuller voicings immediately.

    Is my thinking overly reductive?
    I've ended up doing exactly the opposite. It seems to work best for me... I learn a tune in full 4 note voicings in drop 2 and 3. Then I just eliminate one finger for quick moveable shapes when dashing from one position to another in a chord melody or chord solo. In combination with shells, those reduced drop 2 shapes are enough to produce interesting motion during comping, though. In other words, you could get by with pretty convincing and harmonically rich comping with only 3 note voicings. So if it's easier to start there for you, then go ahead!

    K

  26. #25

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    I am sure you can go from 4 to 3, but I think from a cognitive perspective, building from simple to complex makes sense.

    I did a little learning experiment with myself. I took several unfamiliar four note chords and divided them randomly into two groups of 7. In one group I spent 15 minutes going through repetitions of the 4 note chords. In the other group, I went through the triads, then the shells, and then the full chords, also for 15 minutes. When I tested myself at the end of the day. I was able to recall more of the 4 note chords from the group in which I started with three note chords, plus I knew the triads and shells.