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  1. #51

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    there are so many books out there that can really overwhelm us due to the information explosion of the internet,but the important thing is to get the useful information that will suit our way of playing music...

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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  4. #53

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    I have both books. I like the 3 note voicing book more--but they are both great.

    I like small voicings. Easier to hear the individual voices and treat them as such. Less about block movement and more about 3 melodies that all align yet move differently. Like a string trio. Howard Alden talks about this in one of his Mike's Masterclass videos.

    Still easier to comp with 4 note grips, but 3 notes... you get those notes working for you and you end up telling a story that compliments the soloist instead of just being in the background. I like that idea of telling stories with harmony while the soloist weaves in single lines to the story and vice versa.

    That first George Van Eps book Guitar Method, is a great primer to Vincent's 3 note voicing book.

  5. #54

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    The 3 note voicing book is generally based on harmonizing a melody note with a bass note and adding a middle voice then moving these voices. It's a very strong concept.

    Getting good at 3 note voicings also means you have an additional finger available. Sparing a finger not only gives you more dexterity in playing and switching voicings but also you can use it at times to "thicken" the voicings with an added voice or to create melodies over one of the voicings.

  6. #55

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    I have the 3 note voicings book but I don't have the drop 2 book. However I remember checking it out in a store, it's content is very very similar to Alan Kingstone's Barry Harris book. Harmonized 6th diminished scales (alternating diminished and one of major6, minor6 or dominant chords) and borrowing notes between them. Accept the scales are called something else and the borrowing is called "tinkering".

    I read somewhere that it's a direct translation to guitar from one of Mark Levine's piano books.

  7. #56

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    The particular question: does anyone have the Kindle version of the 3-note voicing book? If so, does it work well? I've got a Kindle, I sometimes use the computer-based Kindle app also. If it works well, I prefer to buy the Kindle version, because I already own too many guitar instruction books, including Vincent's Drop 2 book.

    The general question: what about guitar instruction books on Kindle more generally? I just discovered this series of guitar instruction books being produced in England, and they are all available on Kindle. I can't find the name of this series quickly, but an example from the series is a book co-authored by Mike Stern called "Altered Scale Soloing for Jazz," only about $9 on Kindle. It seems to me that Kindle should be fine, especially on a computer, as long as the books are scanned well. Many Kindle books have a lot of typos, because they are not proof-read and they are not scanned well. I read a lot on Kindle, and this is a very annoying thing about Kindle editions. It's sort of more important in a guitar instruction book than in many other kinds of books that there not be typos, because I can almost always spot and correct a typo in a book, if it's just a mistake in English. Mistaking a sharp for a flat, however, is another kind of problem.

  8. #57

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    is called "tinkering".
    tweaking

    I actually like coming back to Randy's books occasionally though I am not so much of a 'book study' guy...

    and strange enough but I like Randy's approach.
    In this be-bop scale harmonization and tweaking the main difference with Barry harris is that Barry builds very beautiful integral theory (basically in my opinion he re-creates terminology for funcitonal tonality in jazz)... and I really love it as a theoretical conception.
    this makes Barry's approach very steady and stylistically referential.

    But what is good if one dgs Barry's stuff one gets not just a tip but he gets into a world where everything is beautifully related... and this challenge leads one into creative area (but within limited idiom).


    With Randy it seems he does not really bother to get into real deep theory (his explanation sometimes are a bit weird and if I did not have classical education and jazz background I might misunderstand some things).
    His explanation may be 'if you want to make it sound modern just raise a 2nd not from the top a whole step' and that is it)
    He does not care to back it up with integral explanatory theory...
    Also he takes a topic as a separate tool and just puts it down in details (even with a grain of mathematical precision). (Barry also has these 'mescelaneous tool' but it is not his method)


    But the benefit of it is that he leaves it very open in concern of stylist refrence... he even pushes one to go beyond the style.
    And also you can easily take just one idea from his books and go through it and get a lot from it... but I think what is important is that you should have eaither good musical background/or good ear and confidence or a musical teacher who could guide you a bit... because if you repeat it all just as it is written you wil just lean a set of mechanical patterns.
    you should be creative wi that stuff...

  9. #58

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    And 3 notes voicing is cool book... but it is also in his style. 3 notes just means ... basiclaly any 3 notes... it can be triads or 7th chords reductions... or 4ths... whatever...

    it is a bit strange but on the other hane it turns the book into fascinating study realted much to specifically guitar and its particularities

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    tweaking

    I actually like coming back to Randy's books occasionally though I am not so much of a 'book study' guy...

    and strange enough but I like Randy's approach.
    In this be-bop scale harmonization and tweaking the main difference with Barry harris is that Barry builds very beautiful integral theory (basically in my opinion he re-creates terminology for funcitonal tonality in jazz)... and I really love it as a theoretical conception.
    this makes Barry's approach very steady and stylistically referential.

    But what is good if one dgs Barry's stuff one gets not just a tip but he gets into a world where everything is beautifully related... and this challenge leads one into creative area (but within limited idiom).


    With Randy it seems he does not really bother to get into real deep theory (his explanation sometimes are a bit weird and if I did not have classical education and jazz background I might misunderstand some things).
    His explanation may be 'if you want to make it sound modern just raise a 2nd not from the top a whole step' and that is it)
    He does not care to back it up with integral explanatory theory...
    Also he takes a topic as a separate tool and just puts it down in details (even with a grain of mathematical precision). (Barry also has these 'mescelaneous tool' but it is not his method)


    But the benefit of it is that he leaves it very open in concern of stylist refrence... he even pushes one to go beyond the style.
    And also you can easily take just one idea from his books and go through it and get a lot from it... but I think what is important is that you should have eaither good musical background/or good ear and confidence or a musical teacher who could guide you a bit... because if you repeat it all just as it is written you wil just lean a set of mechanical patterns.
    you should be creative wi that stuff...
    I agree with every thing you said in this post.
    He actually has two borrowing related concepts. Tweaking and extensions. Extension is when only the top voice is moved, Tweaking is the middle two voices. All extensions together with the regular inversions make up a harmonization of the underlying scale in the top voice (he doesn't explicitly say that).

    Unlike Barry Harris he never makes the connection between the notes in the tweaked and the extension voicing and the alternating diminished inversions in the 6th diminished scales (ie. his bebop scales). In other words he considers these notes as voicings with 7ths, 11th, 13ths, #11's etc instead of considering them "borrowed" from the related diminished.

    He says for tweaked diminished voicings, the tweaked note is always a whole step away. This creates some voicings that are different from the borrowed voicings of BH. For example you can end up with a b9 in a major chord if you go a whole step from the diminished from the 7th.

    He also doesn't make the connection between the minor6th diminished scale (He calls it the bebop melodic minor scale I think) and the minor7b5 chord voicings (from the 6th) and it's application to dominant chords.

    These are some of the differences I observed between BH and Randy Vincent. As stated in the preface, the Drop 2 chord book is meant to be the guitar translation of Mark Levine's piano book.

    I got useful insights from both approaches.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 12-01-2021 at 07:22 AM.

  11. #60

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    I will also add that all Randy's drop 2 conception is about melodic highest voice (soprano).
    It may seem obvious maybe as drop 2's are often used as block chords.
    But nothing prevents you to play drop2 with melody in other voices...

    Randy does not exclude it but all his explanations and notions are defined through understanding soprano as melodic voice... e.g. this is how he differs (melodic) extensions from the 'tweaked' chords... though they may be similar by quality (C9 or Cma7) but have different voicings.
    As a result his extended chords can be tweaked too.
    This is purely ' from melody on top harmonization' approach in a very extended application and in a very practical way of layout.

    I think it is good actually because it allows a student to differ applications of the same chord and focus on how particular voice works in context (functional harmony, colour, melody..) so you do not see just Cmaj7 in various voicings as just the same thing essentially.

    In all his books Randy invents various terms that work this way allowing us to identify minor but important things within general things.

    How we name it is how we understand it