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  1. #26

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    Just curious--does anyone know if Vincent ever addressed the question?

    I have been working on the three-note chord book. He really is exceptional at explaining the concepts and gives great exercises with which to learn them.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Answering my own question here.

    The Drop 2 book is "Volume 2". It would seem that he is suggesting that "Three-Note Chords and Beyond" should be studied first.

  4. #28

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    Jonzo, I was under the impression that triads and shells were the same thing. Would you be so kind and explain to me the difference.

    Thanks
    edh

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzo
    Just curious--does anyone know if Vincent ever addressed the question?

    I have been working on the three-note chord book. He really is exceptional at explaining the concepts and gives great exercises with which to learn them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzo
    Answering my own question here.

    The Drop 2 book is "Volume 2". It would seem that he is suggesting that "Three-Note Chords and Beyond" should be studied first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzo
    Answering my own question here.

    The Drop 2 book is "Volume 2". It would seem that he is suggesting that "Three-Note Chords and Beyond" should be studied first.
    In actual fact, the dop 2 book is "volume 1" and was published a few years before the three note voicings. Doesn't change the fact that one should find their own way to learn this material in the most convenient way.

  6. #30

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    I'd venture a guess that if you sent an e-mail to Randy, he'd answer your questions.

    For those that don't know him, he's an extraordinarily talented guitarist, and is something of a fixture out here in west Sonoma County. He was Julian Lage's guitar teacher from the time Julian was a preteen until he went off to college in New York. (He also taught my guitar teacher, Chris Pimentel, for several years at Sonoma State U.) I took a couple of lessons with Randy nearly two years ago, but I was nowhere near ready for him, and after his two-hour lessons, my head was about ready to explode with too much information. He is a great teacher for someone above my meager capabilities.

    (If you can't find his e-mail address, send me a PM and I'll provide it, but it should be readily available.)

  7. #31

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    I don't know if "shell" is an official musical term, but I understand triads to be full 3 note chords, with 1, 3, and 5, whereas shells drop one of the triad intervals to include a seventh, or other interval. I think some people even call 2 note chords a shell.

    Most often the 5 or 1 are dropped from a shell, because the 3 and 7 are required to imply the tonality of the full chord.

    For 3 note chords to sound "jazzy", shells would be employed more than triads.

  8. #32

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    As I understand it, 3 note voicings refers to any combination of 3 notes. Triads, 7th chord "reductions" and even shells can be considered 3 note voicings.

    Shells are a specific type of 3 note voicing that includes root, 3rd and 7th of the underlying chord. They are used as a basis for harmonically simple comping and structure and can be "Colorized" easily by adding upper register chord tones like 9ths, 11ths, 13, etc... They thus become 4 note voicings that include only the bare minimum (root, 3rd, 7th, color tone) of harmonic information to transmit complex chords.

    As Jonzo mentions, if you then drop the root from the resulting 4 note shell voicing, you have a small grip or shape that has 3 notes and a lot of harmonic content to get things going.

    K

  9. #33

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    Another thing I like about the idea of starting with three note voicings is it gets you away from the "more notes is better" school of jazz early.

    Of course, some guitarists never play 3 note voicings. I saw Peter Sprague play recently, and he used exactly four strings on every chord he played, all night. Not six, or five, or three. Four.

  10. #34

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    Nosoninja, jonzo, thanks for your time in explaining the differences.

  11. #35

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    There are a fair amount of sample pages on Amazon that can give you more information.

  12. #36

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    I too recently got the Randy Vincent Drop 2 book. It's not what I expected. In the introduction it says that this is an adaptation of Mark Levine - The Drop 2 Book. It's by no means a method book, more of a theory book with lots of ideas to work on. It does not teach you shapes for drop 2 chords, although these can be extracted from examples. It gives harmonisations of bebop scales using drop 2 chords on either bottom 4, middle 4 or top 4 strings. Major, Dominant, Natural Minor and Melodic Minor, plus altered. It gives standard harmonisations and "tweaked" - still not sure what that means.
    One frustration is that it doesn't seem to give any full examples of tunes harmonised with this bebop scale drop 2 system, although lots of short examples. Not quite sure what happens when the chord changes as opposed to when the key changes.
    My plan to use this book is to start learning the harmonised scales on the middle and top 4 strings (bottom 4 string versions are rather muddy as is stated in the book) and then try applying them in a chord melody fashion.
    Lots of writing out to be done as almost all examples are in C major.
    I think there is a lot of depth in the book but some frustrating omissions on how to apply this stuff to tunes in my opinion. I must say the harmonisations of the bebop scales sound great; I've never got sounds out of my guitar like this before.
    Rather a slim volume and the CDs are not much use to me - just playing the examples which I can do myself, albeit slowly.
    I would really be interested in how others are using this book.
    And I'm going to start saving my pennies for the 3 note voicing book which looks to have more meat (certainly more pages)

  13. #37

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    Both books by Vincent are excellent, very well presented in my opinion.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subfeeder
    One frustration is that it doesn't seem to give any full examples of tunes harmonised with this bebop scale drop 2 system
    You must have a different book. Before he shows any scales Vincent gives a clear example of Drop2 via "Blue Bossa." This is one of the best books I've seen...it maps the path to good comping and chord melody playing. I've been playing the harmonized bebop scales all summer...

  15. #39

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    I have the 3 Note book, and I think it is very good. He is clear and concise, and gives very practical exercises that will get you up and running with the content.

  16. #40

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    I am working my way through3 books right now:

    !) 3-note Voicing & Beyond. I have read through the whole book and am now going through the exercises which are IMHO, excellent.
    2) I have also read through the Drop 2 book and am picking subjects of interest for study and practise.
    3) Last but not least, I have Bert Ligons' book and several of his articles and all are excellent studies. I have read through his books and articles and I also pick and choose subjects from his material for study.

    I usually try to use the things I am studying on songs (old standards) I am famliar with. This approach works well for me and keeps me ready for my next gig. If I had to pick only one book, the 3-note voicings book is the one I would pick because it has great exersizes for some of my weakest skill levels. I usually spend a minimum of 2-3 hours/day playing & studying guitar.

    wiz

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by whatswisdom
    You must have a different book. Before he shows any scales Vincent gives a clear example of Drop2 via "Blue Bossa."
    Indeed I must:

    http://www.shermusic.com/new/sample_pages/1883217644_1.pdf

    Only 4 bars in that example. Would love to be pointed to some full chorus examples if they exist.

    I'd be interested to know how people apply this concept using bebop scales. Do you change the scale around for each chord as I suspect or is there a more general way of applying over a larger chunk of a chord progression - for example by key? Also, what do you do for a II V I on the II chord - do you use a dominant chord scale over the whole II V?

  18. #42

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    Hey guys,
    I really like Vincent's Drop 2 book. I was wondering if someone could scan it and send it through e-mail or something. It's just I come from a place which it's very difficult to ship to. I understand that it's not fair but I thought worth a try. I really hope someone could help me.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetaman
    Hey guys,
    I really like Vincent's Drop 2 book. I was wondering if someone could scan it and send it through e-mail or something. It's just I come from a place which it's very difficult to ship to. I understand that it's not fair but I thought worth a try. I really hope someone could help me.
    Don't even bother with the excuses.

    Randy's email address is available via his website: Jazz Guitarist San Francisco Bay Area Performer Randy Vincent

    So why don't you email him and tell him that you have no regard for the hard work he's put into his materials, that it's too hard to ship things to your place, that you know it's unfair to pirate his book but you're going to try to obtain an illegitimate electronic copy anyway. Maybe, just maybe, he'll take pity on your unfortunate situation and send you a copy out of sympathy, but I wouldn't hold my breath..

  20. #44

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    Okay maybe there is an electronic version available, except for Kindle Edition. the PC version. Because I'm ready to pay just to have the book.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetaman
    Okay maybe there is an electronic version available, except for Kindle Edition. the PC version. Because I'm ready to pay just to have the book.
    You can download a Kindle Reader for PC for free from Amazons website (and versions for for iOS and Android from App Store and Google Play respectively - also free).

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldane
    You can download a Kindle Reader for PC for free from Amazons website (and versions for for iOS and Android from App Store and Google Play respectively - also free).
    Thanks for help! I donwloaded the KIndle Reader. This solves all problems and the kindle version of the book is twice cheaper, which is good. Just one question: can you print pages from KIndle Reader? I think I won't have my computer with me all the time and want to have the book with me.
    Thanks!

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetaman
    Thanks for help! I donwloaded the KIndle Reader. This solves all problems and the kindle version of the book is twice cheaper, which is good. Just one question: can you print pages from KIndle Reader? I think I won't have my computer with me all the time and want to have the book with me.
    Thanks!
    You're welcome. It's always good to help a poor sinner back to the narrow track of virtue.

    I dont think you can print directly from Kindle, but at least you ought to be able to save a screendump (the prntscr key) to the clipboard and go on from there. An alternative is getting a cheap tablet and place it on your music stand. Then you can also get, say, the iRealB app which is kind of a downscale Band in a Box which many of us use happily for practicing. It's available for both iOS and android.
    Last edited by oldane; 03-31-2013 at 04:14 AM.

  24. #48

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    Hi Everybody,
    For those interested, Sher Music has just released the PDF of Randy's Drop-2 book. The PDF for Three-note Voicings will be available soon.

    Here's the link:
    Jazz Guitar Voicings - Vol.1: The Drop 2 Book by Randy Vincent | Sher Music Co.

  25. #49

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    The PDF for Three-note Voicings is now available!
    Three-note Voicings and Beyond by Randy Vincent | Sher Music Co.
    Last edited by bobafifi; 06-11-2015 at 12:09 AM.

  26. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by monkmiles
    The Drop 2 got delivered today.

    Any suggestions on the best way to go through to get the most out of it? I ask that because on an amazon review, I saw something about a recommendation on skipping to chapter 4 for practice after each section...or something along those lines.
    Hey man! Couple years later haha. I just bought the book and was wondering the same… Did you eventually found out a good way to get most out of it?