The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    I remember selling them on west coast in 74 for as little as $10, but usually $20. And I gave them to most of my friends... they were printed down the street from Berklee. I remember the guys who were involved... I just don't think it's cool to bring up... It wasn't only a $ making venture at first... But I was a naive kid.... hell I still am...

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    I guess I'm late to the party here, but I have 3 "Fake Books" - Volumes I, II, and VII I think - that I got got from my guitar teacher in the mid '60's. I think I paid $25 each for them. He said he got them from someone who sold them out of the trunk of his car! I've also got a green one and pink one that I got at Berklee in the early '70's that looked like they were made on a copier. (Does that ring a bell, Reg?) I'm going to go now and see if I can find them amongst all the years of clutter around my house.

  4. #53

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    $20 in the mid 70's was a heck of a lot more th an$20 is today.

  5. #54

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    Hey Tom... I was on west coast in 60's... never saw anything like real book. Have some lousy smaller with lousy changes, and melodies, fake books from 60's... pretty useless except for reference to stimulate the memory. I guess that's what they really all do... but harmonically they're pretty bad.
    And yea the real book went off pretty quick... it really helped...

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    $20 in the mid 70's was a heck of a lot more th an$20 is today.
    Indeed, $20 in 1975 is the equivalent of $80.13 in 2010.

    The Inflation Calculator

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Indeed, $20 in 1975 is the equivalent of $80.13 in 2010.

    The Inflation Calculator
    hehe - great little site that. Further evidence that Gibson are charging way too much for Super 400's and es-175's.

    NL

  8. #57

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    I just bought the Hal Leonard play along series and am finding the tunes recorded are sharp by varying numbers of digital cents. It is not pleasant. Anyone have a tuning chart for the tunes?

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawks
    I just bought the Hal Leonard play along series and am finding the tunes recorded are sharp by varying numbers of digital cents. It is not pleasant. Anyone have a tuning chart for the tunes?
    No tuning chart, but what some would do is to rip the tracks to .mp3 format (Windows Media Player does this) and then play each one back in a media player or editor that allows for pitch correction. Audacity is a superb freeware music editing program that lets you do this, I'm pretty sure.

    Once you have a track corrected, "save it as" the New Version (maybe to a special folder or flash drive, for later burning to DVD, etc.)

    Playing along with an actual CD is asking for slight discrepancies in pitch, IMO. Go digital.

  10. #59

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    On a related note, what's the difference between the "Real Book" and the "New Real Book"? Is the "New Real Book" an update from the publishers of the "Real Book?" They have a completely different cover and when I was taking jazz guitar lessons my teacher told me to get the "regular" Real Book because the chord progressions are simpler. He said the New Real Books are good, but he wanted to pencil in the subs himself, so I could see the basic chords compared to the subs, whereas the New Real Book already has way more substitutions presented. When people say they use the "Real Book" do they mean either version?
    Last edited by Steze; 02-26-2012 at 01:04 PM.

  11. #60

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    The idea that you can import the audio files into a good sequence application is appealing but I have not found that it works as far as retuning. I have Logic Pro 9 and run backing tracks and play along tracks to performance standards.

    When I play guitar with the newly purchased Realbook play along imported audio files and use Pitch Correction to retune i get occasional digitalized warbles that ruin the track. It seems like a chart like:
    Autumn Leaves/ guitar needs to be tuned 7 cents up.
    Bright Size Life/ guitar needs to be tuned +15 cents
    Etc.
    ...is needed for this series of Trio accompanied Realbook tunes.

    Unless someone has a steps like answer.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steze
    On a related note, what's the difference between the "Real Book" and the "New Real Book"? Is the "New Real Book" an update from the publishers of the "Real Book?" They have a completely different cover and when I was taking jazz guitar lessons my teacher told me to get the "regular" Real Book because the chord progressions are simpler. He said the New Real Books are good, but he wanted to pencil in the subs himself, so I could see the basic chords compared to the subs, whereas the New Real Book already has way more substitutions presented. When people say they use the "Real Book" do they mean either version?
    Most folks mean the Hal Leonard Real Book, which is the most similar to the old illegal RealBook.

    Both are worth having....the new Real Book has better charts--meaning you have to play with them less to get things "right"--but any fake book chart is a suggestion, not an ultimatum.

    The Hal Leonard Real Book has more common jazz jam session tunes.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawks
    It seems like a chart like:
    • Autumn Leaves/ guitar needs to be tuned 7 cents up.
    • Bright Size Life/ guitar needs to be tuned +15 cents


    ....is needed for this series of Trio accompanied Realbook tunes.

    Unless someone has a steps like answer.

    If the CDs need a chart or document to follow so that a guitar can be tuned to them (and thus play in tune with the tracks), it seems to me you have a faulty product and you should ask for a refund. What are the poor piano players going to do when playing Bright Size Life, followed by Autumn Leaves?

    Do you have problems with other jam tracks, or only with these?

    kj

  14. #63

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    Most backing tracks that I own do not have this problem. I even have Hal Leonard CD plus book collections, like Bill Evans Originals, with split track arrangements that give a Bb to tune to.
    This RealBook Trio collection is a different sort of problem because there are alot of tunes and if they used different pianos to record this series, then the collection is bound to be out of tune with itself. The playing is good. The fidelity is mono and above average. As a guitarist, I'd love to just get a series like this that was split track to where you could mute the piano and just hear the standup bass and drums. I played alot with it today and will pick and choose the best. Chelsea Bridge was in tune and had a good feel. It was easily worth the money and if nothing else good for the woodshed.

  15. #64

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    Another good example would be that some pieces as presented in the real book are based on specific versions. The commonly accepted version of Stella by Starlight for instance is mostly based on a version of Miles Davis I believe. Anyway, the presumably "original" changes are a lot less "dramatic" if you will. Les half-diminished chords etc. If you want to know what I mean, listen to the Parker with strings version and you will find a totally different version of the harmony. That may have been the original! Maybe not, who knows. But it's a good example of possible origins of this "right"/"Wrong" battle. My teacher showed me this and I thought it was an awesome perspective.

    Cheers

  16. #65

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    The good ole real book (prior to Hal Leonard edition) sure has a lot of mistakes in it.
    e.g. the tune 'Blue Train' by John Coltrane.

    There's no doubt that the main reference for a written sketch (lead sheet) of this piece has to be the composer's 1957 record 'Blue Train'. The real book explicitly also does so.

    Please note that I refer to the good ole (illegal) real book vol #1. My 6th European (Hal Leonard) edition doesn't contain the tune anymore. So I can't guess if the 6th American edition possibly contains a (corrected?) version.

    Now let's see how accurate the chart is:

    1) the title: 'Blue Trane' instead of 'Blue Train' - we let it pass as a kind wink to the composer.

    2) the melody: there are 2 wrong notes in bar 8 on beats '3' and '3and': accepting the transposition to the key of C, the notes would have to be 'Bb' and 'Eb' instead of 'C' and 'D'.

    3) the key: I can't find any reason to transpose the piece down a minor third from the original (from Eb to C) - but one: in a gracious mood the transcriber (teacher) didn't want to confront the students with a key signature with 6 flats - which directly leads to the next error:

    4) the chords and the key signature suggest that the piece is a blues in a MINOR KEY - which is completely wrong. Blue Train as played on the record I mentioned is a perfectly normal (major) blues in Eb. During the head section, the chord changes are:

    4 bars of Eb7#9, 2 of Ab7#11, 2 of Eb7#9, 2 of Bb7#9, 2 of Eb7#9.

    On the melody repeat the horns sound an Eb minor triad on the I chord, giving it a strong #9 flavor, while the piano continues to play Eb7#9.
    For the solo sections the form is a perfectly normal Eb major blues, with a #9 for the I and V chords only as one of many options.

    5) the typical vamp figure for the chords on beats '3' and '4and' in every other bar during head section is missing in the chart.

    I think that's quite a lot of inaccuracies for 12 bars of music. I wouldn't say that it isn't possible to play the tune as a minor blues or with the altered melody. But to me this chart doesn't give a hint how it has been played, as a basis for jamming and for possibly finding your own way of playing it, which I think is the object of lead sheets in general.
    Last edited by andypiano; 04-16-2012 at 04:04 AM. Reason: precision

  17. #66

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    More proof that you can't trust anybody! Go back to the source and do your own transcription/analysis.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by andypiano
    The good ole real book (prior to Hal Leonard edition) sure has a lot of mistakes in it.
    That's why we don't rely on it anymore. It's 2012.

  19. #68

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    But the g.o. one has been there for about 40 years, and admittedly there is a lot of good transcription work in it also. It is common ground, a lot of people learned their tunes from it, so we can't ignore it. It has got a bible status of sorts, e.g. meaning that all the tunes it contains (and just those) tend to be considered 'standard tunes', which isn't true, of course. There are quite some tunes in it that were of some interest only at the time the book was set up. But that is true with all of the Sher Music new real books either.
    The Hal Leonard edition on the other hand is sure much more accurate, but the selection of tunes is rather different from the g.o. one (a lot of unquestionable standard tunes are now missing / others are now contained at last / some are presented in a different key now), so it isn't an easy alternative.

  20. #69

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    There is an interesting mistake in the Real Book 1.
    It is in the Jobim tune "corcovado".
    The first chord after the intro is written as D7/A althought it should be an Am6. They are actually enharmonic equivelent and have the same notes in both chords.
    But...
    Whenever bass players play this tune when it comes to that chord they play: D D A A D D A. When it should be A A E E A A E

  21. #70

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    you're right that both chords are equivalent, so I think both bass figures will work, as well as staying on A for 2 bars, or staying on D for 2 bars...
    here's a version of the song played by the composer with a D7 (D in the bass):

    I wouldn't consider D7/A a mistake - it's just an option as is Am6.

    andreas

  22. #71

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    That 'A' in the melody in the third bar of the Gm7 IS NOT an Ab, despite the key signature. (Which by the way should include a Gb, because the song is in Db.)
    There's mistake

  23. #72

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    In some circles knowing and correcting those Real Book errors is a litmus test of your legitimacy as a jazz musician. The expectation is that you can go learn it by ear from listening to the root source recording. If you can't do that, you're not a real jazz musician in some people's opinion. The 5th edition has several errata pages providing the corrections; the musician is expected to do those corrections themselves because the publishers of the Real Book did not redo the charts. My understanding is that the transcriptions were done by Berklee music students and the final charts were written out by a well-known bassist.

    Heh. I remember getting my copy in the 80s; there was an address IIRC in Illinois that I sent $20 in cash to, and a week later received my copy of the Real Book in a brown paper wrapper. No return address, all very clandestine and skulduggery-ish. I still have it; I've had to replace the comb three or four times now over the years. The pages are turning brown but I have a certain sentimental attachment to it. The Sher and Hal Leonard books seem more accurate, but the RB 5th edition is what seems to lurk in gig bags to this day.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    In some circles knowing and correcting those Real Book errors is a litmus test of your legitimacy as a jazz musician. The expectation is that you can go learn it by ear from listening to the root source recording. If you can't do that, you're not a real jazz musician in some people's opinion. The 5th edition has several errata pages providing the corrections; the musician is expected to do those corrections themselves because the publishers of the Real Book did not redo the charts. My understanding is that the transcriptions were done by Berklee music students and the final charts were written out by a well-known bassist.
    I can believe it! I used to be a bit like the myself lol. OMG Desifinado... EVERY ****ING TIME.

    Yeah I haven't learned a tune for the RB in ages, but I usually take a look to see what's in there.

    Jazz shibboleth stuff - yeah whatever... Those guys should get along well with the trad jazz crowd who look at you funny if you can't transpose Tishomingo Blues up a fourth at the drop of a hat. Life's too ****ing short to please everyone haha.

    My main aim on stage is not to be a dick TBH. If I hear someone do a RB thing even if it's a mistake or a misprint, or a dodgy sub, I try to know enough to go with it. In a way it's a annoying, but I guess it's part of the homework. I might gently suggest a change to the chart beforehand.

    I get the impression in NYC everyone has a good handle on the GASB, but in the UK there's greatest value placed in most circles on being able to work well and quickly from charts - lots of originals stuff, show work and jazz stuff is often originals and arrangements. So while the more dedicated straight-ahead players have a good working rep of standards often there are many very well regarded and indeed excellent players who don't have a big standards rep and even if they do might not have done a jazz pick up gig for several months. They might need to read a tune from the RB....

    And in the end... you are going to get roasted by someone. Puts hairs on your chest....

    Heh. I remember getting my copy in the 80s; there was an address IIRC in Illinois that I sent $20 in cash to, and a week later received my copy of the Real Book in a brown paper wrapper. No return address, all very clandestine and skulduggery-ish. I still have it; I've had to replace the comb three or four times now over the years. The pages are turning brown but I have a certain sentimental attachment to it. The Sher and Hal Leonard books seem more accurate, but the RB 5th edition is what seems to lurk in gig bags to this day.
    Of course the 5th Ed version has the pretty comprehensive Errata that literally NO-ONE read.

  25. #74

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    I like to learn tunes by listening to a number of classic recordings. At jams I try (with varying success) to hear what changes my bandmates are playing and adapt. The real book seems to lock everyone into one particular interpretation. It gets tiresome to always play a tune the same way, always using the same subs, even if they aren’t “wrong.”

  26. #75

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    I like F#o7 in All of Me.

    You wouldn't believe the looks I get.