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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by brwnhornet59
    You also knew, at least I did, that 8string and Reg were referring to the obvious root, 5th, root, 3rd, not inversions.
    I honestly didn't know that.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vihar
    I honestly didn't know that.
    FWIW, neither did I.

  4. #53

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    Hey look he doesn't like it when someone takes cheap shot... If your going to dish... be able to take.
    Typical bar chords used by guitarist are open position chords moved up the neck with use of a bar, (your first finger), generally built on root 6th, 5th and 4th strings. The "fifth on bottom" is making reference to the most common versions, open E chords and open A chords. Which have a fifth on bottom.
    Your chord, or inversion of C triad with maj7th on top... which is a open position Gmaj chord moved up the neck... is not that typical or what I consider standard guitar bar chord. But hey if you like it...cool.
    My history reference is... put as shortly as possible, Pop and Rock music tends to use concepts of harmony from "Parallelism". Pallallel motion tends to reduce the functional value of chords and emphasize the coloristic aspects of harmony. The use of typical bar chords is simply an example of this concept in use...
    While in jazz we tend to use modal concepts, which are applied to chord progressions, chord structures and more complex chord formations with implications...Many possible implications. There are more layers of controlling factors... The use of typical bar chords with fifths on bottom... limit the possible implications.
    What samples of your playing or posts about jazz theory, harmony or basic jazz knowledge would lead me to believe jazz is your thing... That's not a bad thing... sorry about cheap shot... Reg

  5. #54

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    I was fascinated by this thread about the question of why not use barre chords in Jazz (and how some bashed the person who asked it). I know is an old post, but illustrates one of the many simple points that people who played the guitar for years (perhaps badly or too simplistically like me) have had a hard time getting started with Jazz Guitar and we get frustrated since we can play well open and barre chords and understand some music and rhythm, but then we encounter the Jazz Guitar steep hill, and it seems that no one wants to explain some basic issues that those like me who already play guitar face in making a transition to or beginning with Jazz.

    I have yet to find a book or a course that deals with the situation. And, many jazz guitarists have a take it or leave it a approach: This is the way it is kid, it sounds better that way, keep practicing, memorize every scale, every chord, every triad and every inversion and maybe one day you can play like me . . . Ok I get it. I want to play like you but help me get there.

    This website is the ONLY place that I was able to find eventually answers to some of my questions (after hours of reading and searching). I guess I was looking for a book which does not exist (or at least I cannot find it): "So you Play Guitar and Now you Want to Play Jazz: What you Need to Know to and How to Make the Transition"

    The topic of the thread about barre chords is a one of the questions I sort of had the first day I started. I knew the Jazz chord sound better, but how do I go from there or how I relearn playing some of them when I play a Jazz standard. How do I mute the strings that I dont play? I guess strumming is not the way I was use to with a barre chord. Do I strum at all? Better use my fingers then? Maybe not, maybe a pick, or not?

    In any event, this website is wonderful. It has great lessons, tips etc but in the posts i would encourage those of you who have already mastered jazz and it is second nature to you not to bash those who ask a simple question for example as to why not use a barre chord that I already know how to play. Trust me I appreciate your expertise and if it was not for you I would have ended my journey for the lack of answers to my simple questions. Please allow me to continue to ask those stupid beginner questions.

    Finally, I want to say that the book that is the BEST for beginners to get you started and keep you going and interested is the one FREE from this website: "The beginners Guide to Jazz Guitar" After that you can explore others, but don't waste too much money initially like I did.

    Again thank you all for your guidance and advice.

    All the best

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPP
    ....I have yet to find a book or a course that deals with the situation. And, many jazz guitarists have a take it or leave it a approach: This is the way it is kid, it sounds better that way, keep practicing, memorize every scale, every chord, every triad and every inversion and maybe one day you can play like me . . . Ok I get it. I want to play like you but help me get there.....
    Have you seen this book?
    The Guitarist's Introduction to Jazz by Randy Vincent | Sher Music Co.
    Jazz Chords vs Barre Chords-9780997661743-jpg

  7. #56

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    No I had not. I will check it out for sure. Thank you!

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPP
    ...it seems that no one wants to explain some basic issues that those like me who already play guitar face in making a transition to or beginning with Jazz... ...I have yet to find a book or a course that deals with the situation... ...I guess I was looking for a book which does not exist (or at least I cannot find it): "So you Play Guitar and Now you Want to Play Jazz: What you Need to Know to and How to Make the Transition"
    I suspect you may already be way past that stage, but you may still find value in Glen Rose's booklet and video for rock and folk guitarists looking to transition to jazz

    Here's his website: Jazzy Guitar
    The original course has been out for several years, and apparently he's added a new one recently for jazz blues.

  9. #58

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    Thanks v281. I wish I had found that book months ago when I was starting the journey into jazz. I am still going to get it though since it is exactly the book I was hoping existed and I never found it. I really appreciate it. Thank you again.

  10. #59
    With all due respect JPP, all your questions would be answered by a good teacher. A book can get you started but a book AND a teacher is a program, and my experience is that a program will save you much time and frustration.
    Plenty of people learn from books and it's a running joke on the site about how many instructional books some of us have on the shelf. But the feedback and guidance of a good teacher is invaluable and will keep you on the True Path.

  11. #60

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    "Everything I play is from a barre". - Joe Pass

    Some interesting insights into barred jazz chords in this video of Joe Pass.


  12. #61

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    An old thread but not an old topic for newcomers. A couple of thoughts:

    1. There are many good jazz guitar chord oriented books. That said, I don't know of any comprehensive jazz guitar book(s) that cover everything one needs to learn about jazz guitar (no matter the book's title).

    2. It's not really a question of jazz chords vs. barre chords, is it? It's really a question of:

    A. 5-6 note voicings for triads and seventh chords - which of course require a barre,
    vs.
    B. 3-4 note voicings which may/may not be triads or seventh chords.

    Jazz guitar sometiemes uses category "A" chords (chord melody/solo guitar playing), and some category "B" chords make use of barres. So, one needs to learn both to play jazz guitar.

    As stated above by others there are a number of reasons that category A voicings are not emphasized in jazz guitar playing. Harmonic expression (both color and harmonic rhythm), the role of the guitar in the ensemble and thus the lack of need to actively strum, strum, strum away to fill up sonic space, amplified vs. unamplified guitar, etc.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAJackson
    "Everything I play is from a barre". - Joe Pass

    Some interesting insights into barred jazz chords in this video of Joe Pass.
    Ha, I was thinking of this Joe lesson with all this talk about jazz guitarists not using barre chords. "This is stuff every guitarist should know." Of course he was doing fingerstyle, so muting not an issue.

    I have a bit different guitar problem. My background was in piano, and I did self-learning of the guitar on the side. But I mostly focussed on learning jazz stuff. If I were asked to do a rock, blues or country gig, there's some basic vocabulary I think I'd be lacking. I'd probably be trying to use shell voicings on Achy Breaky Heart. Oh and the only pedal I own is a looper.

    Tim

  14. #63

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    There's nothing the matter with barre chords, it can be a big help/easy way to play a lot of voicings. If nothing else, also a starting point to navigate to "jazz chords". Take an A "power chord", and "conjugate" it, make it a dom 7, maj 7, min 7, m7b5.

  15. #64

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    Also I should clarify for anyone like the OP who is wondering, Joe Pass is barring to free up fingers. He's not usually playing all those doubled notes. As has been mentioned, those freed up fingers are useful to do some voice leading to the next chord.

    I have small hands, so tend not to be a fan of full barres, but it is a very useful tool for solo guitar and active comping. Again, this is tougher if you're not doing fingerstyle. Hybrid is awesome though.

  16. #65

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    Joe pass is a great place to start. He said to learn CAGED forms. He didn't explicitly say how to learn minor and dominant chords but I think it is implied it is indeed based off of the major forms. The 'jazz chords' are gap fillers between these forms which happen to include all the pretty 9ths 11ths 6ths ect.