Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Posts 76 to 100 of 129
  1. #76

    User Info Menu

    Okay, after finishing first exercise in all keys I realized how difficult it is. So, here's the thing: after I read through an exercise I play it for a few times and try to memorize. It is more or less possible. But when I played through all keys I forgot how to play the first keys - I mean, I can go back and read the fingerings and string sets again to help myself remember, and I can play the scales without the book but then there is a problem with string sets, I can't remember where to transfer to another string set, and again I have to look back at the book. Also, I feel how my technique has improved. So, how should this be approached? Just sight reading or memorizing them to be able to produce them at any time (what's the point in this)? Or just looking at the fret and naming the notes in triad is fine?

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77

    User Info Menu

    I think the first reason for people having these books taking dust is the average guitarist is a poor reader (like myself), that's why I am practicing with the Modern Method; it is doing a lot for my sight reading.

  4. #78

    User Info Menu

    The second reason these resources are not used may be that the guitarist doesn't realize how this information will improve their playing. If you don't see a book as containing useful information that you want to be part of your playing, most will never get through it. This is why it can be important to have a teacher or study group (even one with just you and one other person) that can help them to understand and remember the goals of learning the material. Not everyone needs a teacher or study group, but having a support system can help.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

  5. #79

    User Info Menu

    Jetaman, I have just arrived back after being away from my guitar for three days. I understand how you could forget when the string sets change, and I'm wondering how much that matters. If you understand that he uses different sets changes with different keys, surely all that matters is that you can figure out ways of doing it yourself. The principle being more important than the detail? I also forget, realise I've been practising it with maybe one change of sets different from the score. But realising I can do it more than one way is interesting enough.

    Steve Herberman recommends above that we should move through this material, as the real interesting stuff begins with the sub and supra added notes.

  6. #80

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jetaman
    Okay, after finishing first exercise in all keys I realized how difficult it is. So, here's the thing: after I read through an exercise I play it for a few times and try to memorize. It is more or less possible. But when I played through all keys I forgot how to play the first keys - I mean, I can go back and read the fingerings and string sets again to help myself remember, and I can play the scales without the book but then there is a problem with string sets, I can't remember where to transfer to another string set, and again I have to look back at the book. Also, I feel how my technique has improved. So, how should this be approached? Just sight reading or memorizing them to be able to produce them at any time (what's the point in this)? Or just looking at the fret and naming the notes in triad is fine?

    Here is what the master himself has written:
    page 3
    "Physically, exercises have many purposes. Some are designed to train the hand to walk smoothly on the fingers. Some are designed to be awkward and difficult, to teach the hand to be ready for the nearly impossible. Others are designed to fill the degrees in between. All are necessary- it is important to keep this in mind."

    page 14
    "An Instrumentalist must strive to be able to play in all keys, full range, with as near perfect chromatic control as possible. Working with the many varied mechanisms in all of these subtleties will help build the necessary finger control and dexterity to achieve this goal"


    I think you should work through his fingerings, but it is unnecessary to be able to reproduce them 100% at any time.

  7. #81

    User Info Menu

    Hey guys,
    I finally got around to recording a video of the first exercice. I didn't have time to record alll 12 keys (but I certainly played thorugh all of them), so I recorded only 2 keys C and F and a little experiment in A Key. Let me know what you think! Next step - Harmonic minor scales

  8. #82

    User Info Menu

    Well, yes, you have the fingering. I hate playing that two-string barre with the 2nd finger, while 4 is playing the sixth string two frets higher. I have a high action on my D'Aquisto, and that just doesn't feel good at all, so I use fingers 1 and 3.

    I think you have the right approach - learn everything as written, then play around with it. I've still only memorised C, F, Bb and Eb. Just too busy to take anything else on at the moment. So, kudos to you for learning all 12.

  9. #83

    User Info Menu

    Hello all,

    I wanted to throw my two cents in here to this discussion as someone who has been fooling around with Harmonic Mechanisms for over a year, on and off. It actually completely threw me in a different direction, to the point that I stopped working with seventh chords entirely and dedicated myself completely to practicing triads -- especially OPEN triads (not the "open" triads that Van Eps has in the book with the lowest voice dropped an octave, but the normal variety in which you hollow out the triad by dropping or raising the middle voice an octave). Through learning some of the pieces in Jordi Farres's transcriptions, I saw what a "pure" sound the triads offered. Coming back to seventh chords now, I was excited to realize that the stock drop-2 shapes are just open triads with the seventh stuffed in there somewhere, unless the seventh is in the soprano or the bass, in which case the triad is closed.

    Anyway, the first pages of the "Mighty triads" with row after row of triad chord scales first in major and then in harmonic and melodic minor are essentially the base material, the launching pad. I don't think that you will see any amazing transformations in your playing just from that, the same way going up and down single-note scales won't turn you into a good soloist. It's just to show you what's there, and Van Eps was a really meticulous guy (listen to the three hour interview Ted Greene did with him for Guitar Player and you will see that he was a real tinkerer; he apparently held patents for a diverse number of inventions that included a steam engine model train -- a real engineer-type) so I think for this reason he writes every last key out. The fingering system is the crux of it all, as others have mentioned. As a way to improve technique, I really enjoy going through the chord scales; at the beginning, some of the fingerings were awkward but I enjoyed the challenge.

    The big thing -- IMO -- is to start viewing the three voices as INDEPENDENT, not as block chords. Once you have got all the inversions down, Van Eps starts with some cool exercises. For example, you link all the inversions of a given major or minor chord by playing the relevant scale (minor always with both harmonic and melodic) in the top, middle, or bottom voice. You can see this starting on page 58. I have taken this idea and applied it to open triads as well, and in general it is just a great way to practice going through triad inversions while being musical about it.

    I think that the 3 to 6 up stuff and all the other permutations are also ways of working on technique and forces you to think simultaneously about 2 voices. Again, a very cool practice idea for expanding fretboard knowledge. I don't really do those exercises with the exact fingerings anymore; I like to jump around as much as possible to other string sets and see if I can keep it fluid and not screw up (I still screw up a LOT, haha).

    With Steve Herberman's talk of the super and sub sets I actually practiced today out of that section to see what that is all about. As of today I will add that to my routine. I see it as another way of breaking out of the "chord grips" mentality.

    Anyway, I am no expert on any of this and I am far from having gone through all the material, but I do speak as an enthusiast of the book. Does wonders for your technique and expands your general harmonic awareness (ah yes, forgot to mention that since he tells you to think simultaneously of the chords function as well as its name, you get much faster at recalling the sixth of Db or whatever... a lot of the work is mental and not just physical). Before starting with H.M. I had never really studied the sounds of harmonic and melodic minor, so it really helped me get a grip on that.

  10. #84

    User Info Menu

    It's always good to hear from people who have progressed some way through the books, and it's good to see you learned enough from the discipline involved to work with different chords.

    Again I'm stuck on the first page of triads. I find it helps to say the mantra: major, minor, minor, major, major, minor, diminished...as I go.

  11. #85

    User Info Menu

    Day 2 on exercise 1 first key...

    Fingers hurt but my sight reading is improving.

  12. #86

    User Info Menu

    Hey guys look what I found. Apparently they teach GVE method at Berklee.
    Building Guitar Technique through Triads | Berklee College of Music

  13. #87

    User Info Menu

    Yes, that's the slim volume he wrote before the Harmonic Mechanisms. The rhythm guitarist with Chic says he worked a lot with that book. It has wider applications than jazz.

  14. #88

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Yes, that's the slim volume he wrote before the Harmonic Mechanisms. The rhythm guitarist with Chic says he worked a lot with that book. It has wider applications than jazz.
    While I studied with Ted Greene, he was studying with GVE..Ted said..look triads or any chord actually are just frozen moving voices..and indeed they are..

  15. #89

    User Info Menu

    Okay, I'm halfway through Harmonic minor scales. And while practicing I notice that I don't actually memorize the function of the triad (Dm, C dim, Aaug etc), however it's writter above the triad, so I think it's there for some reason. Should a student memorize the names of these functions a well? I also noticed that it's easy to deduce the function from the top note - it the top note is D then it's D triad.

  16. #90

    User Info Menu

    I think you should memorise everything - positions, fingering, notes, function. I said above, for the major keys I find it helpful to remember:

    Major

    minor-minor

    Major-Major

    minor-diminished

    But knowing which is the vi chord, or the ii chord, etc, is also important.

  17. #91

    User Info Menu

    Hey guys,
    I've come back from 2-weeks holiday, where I didn't have a guitar to practice. But I didn't waste my time there. I did a lot of vizualiation stuff. When I was relaxing I vizualized the fingerboard and "played" the triads up and down the neck. While I played the triad I also named the notes, the triad and the step, like this: (in C major scale) f,a,d - d minor - 2nd step, g,b,e - e minor - 3rd step etc.
    It helped me not forget what I practiced at home, and also helped memorize things like names of triads and steps. By the way, in his interview George said that he vizualized a lot.
    Now I'm back and ready to continue my study of Harmonic Mechanisms.

  18. #92

    User Info Menu

    Let us know if the visualization stuff worked.

  19. #93

    User Info Menu

    Hey guys,
    I'm happy to let you know that I finished going through Harmonic minor scales in first inversions. Some things start to clear up. Visualization stuff actually worked, like I said in the previous post. The only thing when I visualize the scale I don't use the string set transfer as in the book, I move up the neck from the lowest note to the highest on 4/3, then again from the lowest to the highest on 3/3, then the same on 2/3 and finally on 1/3. It takes longer than usual playing exercise but helps memorize the neck better.
    Cheeeers!

  20. #94

    User Info Menu

    Hello,

    I have been working a little bit on georges van eps harmonic mechanisms for guitar, and I am trying to figure out why the open triads he uses in the book are not the regular open triads. Is it just to work something unusual with big strings skippings?

    And also why the regular open triads positions are missing, it seems weird in such an exhaustive book...

  21. #95

    User Info Menu

    Hey guys,
    It's been a while since my last post, and you probably thought that I gave up on Harmonic Mechanisms, like most people do. But I didn't. I continue working with Harmonic Mechanisms and I am very happy that didn't give up. I've progressed slow in the last few months, right now I'm finishing second inversion triads in melodic minor. I notice how I start recognizing triad names when I play them. Also I notice how my technique improves and how I started utilizing different triads over the same bass note in my regular playing.
    How have you guys been doing?

  22. #96

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jetaman
    Hey guys,
    It's been a while since my last post, and you probably thought that I gave up on Harmonic Mechanisms, like most people do. But I didn't. I continue working with Harmonic Mechanisms and I am very happy that didn't give up. I've progressed slow in the last few months, right now I'm finishing second inversion triads in melodic minor. I notice how I start recognizing triad names when I play them. Also I notice how my technique improves and how I started utilizing different triads over the same bass note in my regular playing.
    How have you guys been doing?
    when you begin to move the voices in each "chord shape" and see how they develope (morph) into other "chords" thus creating both harmonic AND melodic movement..you then have many "mini" progressions that revolve around each chord you play..see Ted Greens' vids and web site (he studied with GVE) this type of playing is close to "classical" guitar playing technique applied to jazz - standards and pop tunes -

    use some of the chord forms from the mel minor in a minor blues and see what developes..

  23. #97

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen
    when you begin to move the voices in each "chord shape" and see how they develope (morph) into other "chords" thus creating both harmonic AND melodic movement..you then have many "mini" progressions that revolve around each chord you play..see Ted Greens' vids and web site (he studied with GVE) this type of playing is close to "classical" guitar playing technique applied to jazz - standards and pop tunes - use some of the chord forms from the mel minor in a minor blues and see what developes..
    Thanks, with every exercise behind I start to see more and more. I've heard about Ted Greene a while ago, and I even tried to study some of his materials. I know that he studied with George. That's why I decide to study Harmonic Mechanisms first before going any further.I don't know if it's been mentioned before but while watching Ted Greene's video on Baroque Improv part 2, in 7:16 he says to Steve Herberman: "You should make sure that you have all your harmonized scales together. You can have that if you've gone through George's books". So I'm pretty sure that by George's Books he means Harmonic Mechanisms, and Steve is known for having worked with these books.I know that Steve visited this thread, so, Steve if you still visit this forum can you confirm this?
    Update on HM: finished all scales for Second Inversion. Start Root triads, page 40.

  24. #98

    User Info Menu

    After almost 40 years of studying... I know so little about the guitar. Jeez. Ted was amazing.

  25. #99

    User Info Menu

    Is this topic still alive? I am thinking creating a youtube channel and recording all exercises to motivate myself and others to study. Do you think I would have copyright issues? And do you think this could be a good ideia?

  26. #100

    User Info Menu

    Not at all meaning to burst you bubble, Tgv10, but I've recorded 30 videos of them already: GVEps – ArchtopGuitar.net

    But I don't doubt for a second that you would do them very differently, and it's always good to hear different approaches, understandings, and interpretations. I look forward to seeing what you do.