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Hi,
I hope this is ok to post. I've been working lots on my soloing (both in a blues and Jazz context) and am making very slow, but steady progress.
I then suddenly had a horrible thought ... if someone asked me to jam a Blues (or more specifically a Jazz-Blues), then my comping would really not be up to scratch (and actually would likely let me down more than my soloing).
I know Dom7 chord voicings across the neck, as well as the typical blues "chunk-a, chunk-a" thing we all learned, but nothing particularly sophisticated and I'd like to fix that!
I watched the Robben Ford clinic on Youtube (and took a lot away from that), but I'm looking for something quite comprehensive - does anyone have any advice or resources they can recommend?
TLDR: I'm looking for a book or resource on Blues and Jazz-Blues comping / grooves I can play as part of a Blues or Jazz jam.
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10-24-2024 01:07 PM
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Jim Ferguson’s book:
All Blues for Jazz Guitar: Comping Styles, Chords & Grooves
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Avoid books that are going to over complicate things. Watch Guitar Night with Frank Vignola, he chunk-a chunk-a's through a blues every time and it sounds great.
If you literally don't know where to start, get the Mickey Baker book, it'll teach you the moves Frank V. uses.
I think comping is one of those don't complicate it situations. Play simple stuff well, listen to Red Garland. You're supposed to be supporting the soloist, not soloing underneath them mucking it all up. When you have the simple stuff down, start playing around. Foundation Foundation Foundation.
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Thanks for this great advice!
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Ah - I didn't realise the Mickey Baker book covered Blues comping! Is that the 1st or 2nd book?
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In book 1, there are 3 examples on page 21.
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Having just looked at the preview on Amazon - this looks like the winner! Very comprehensive & keeping it simple too. And it looks like there's a version for Jazz comping as well as blues! Originally Posted by pcjazz
Thanks so much.
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I think it’s a great book when you’re getting started.
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OK..you sound serious..you know there are literally hundreds of blues vids online..but if you want ALOT of blues info all in one place by Originally Posted by jamiehenderson1993
someone that the top players have gone to try..
tedgreene.com
go to Lessons Blues
this should be enough to cover many styles of blues in different keys ..it will require practice and patients ,,check it out
they do ask for a donation (not required!) if you find the lessons helpful.
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There is a long section on blues progressions in the book, The Joe Pass Guitar Style.
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Cory Congilio's Working Class Guitar: Working Class Guitar
Video lessons and they are reasonably priced. He has some lessons that can help transition between blues and jazz.
DougLast edited by Doug B; 10-24-2024 at 08:09 PM.
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Here is a free class on comping the blues by Barry Greene. Barry also has a video course for sale on his website on comping the blues. It runs about 45 minutes and costs a whopping 15 bucks. I like Barry’s videos a lot because he gives you the tools to get going on your own. Unlike a bunch of written examples in a book. They are true living breathing lessons.
Live Master Class - Comping on the Blues - Barry Greene Video Lessons - YouTube
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Actually I always heard, read, saw that good comping involves creating a little motif to inspire the soloist. That is what I try to do anyway. True not too busy but something “moving” under the soloist. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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So, there's a LOT of things to consider here. If it's a duo and you know the soloist and you know they are playful and engaging and you have the chops, then yeah, play around. If it's a jam and you get up with six people you don't know, be conservative unless you're invited into the conversation. There is a LOT of context to navigate and I think it's better for a new player to solidly fit in rhythmically. Originally Posted by alltunes
Like, don't worry about comping with motifs until you can get comfortable with vanilla jazz blues.
At first you want to get the foundation and basics down so you can hear where you fit.
Just like we need to hear if B A F D is Bm7b5 or rootless G9 with context, we need to give advice to new players with context. OP can't comp blues and wants help starting, telling them to create motifs is too much too soon.
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+1 Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Listen to not only guitar players, listen to piano, organ and horns too. Listen to blues of all styles and eras and to spirituals and old-school gospel. Listen to rock'n'roll and doo-wop. Listen to boogie-woogie. Listen to funk and soul music. Listen while in the car and on public transport. Listen until your ears fall off, listen, listen, listen until you have absorbed the feeling. Dance to the music (you do not have to do it in public), make love to the music, etc. etc. etc.
And if you insist in books, here is a secret tip: There is a book by Junior Mance (published by Ray Brown's publishing company IIRC). It has been out of print for a long time. Hunt this book down on the used book market and translate its contents to the guitar.
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^^^
I forgot to mention that it is more effective on your learning regarding comping to dance in public (even public transport) than in your bedroom.
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Controversial opinion of the day: Blues, straight blues, is music of the street not music of higher learning institutions. If you are learning it out of a book or at a school it's probably shit because blues books are stupid and it's MOSTLY bums who don't make enough money playing blues who write instructional books and make videos to compensate for their lack of blues gig income. I have never seen a good instructional book on straight blues playing. Books don't teach feeling, and blues is a feeling. Originally Posted by jamiehenderson1993
Get out to some jams, weekly, nightly if possible, even when you don't feel like going. Throw yourself into some difficult situations with better players and crash and burn or fly high. Get snubbed by some better players cause you suck a few times. Motivation. It's part of the process. You have no business soloing if your rhythm work sucks. If you think chunk-a chunk-a is one and done you are also mistaken. There are a lot of ways, dozens perhaps, to vary that up, also not taught in a book. How's your flat tire shuffle?
When you feel you are ready here is how to proof test your chops: Double shot of Wild Turkey 101 or other high proof bourbon right before going on stage. If you blow it then it's back to the drawing board. People here might tell you this is bad advice. They are entitled to their non-blues playing opinions. The last thing you should lose before your heartbeat is the ability to make those 1, 4, 5 changes in the corect order, in any condition, sick, drunk, sober, cold, hot, happy, or pissed off.
However, If all you want to do is play jazz-blues then disregard my post completely and get some books cause that is music of higher learning institutions now. I like it raw myself. Good luck on your journey.
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You should also probably walk to some of the jams at least four or five miles. Ten is better. If it's further you should take a shitty city bus or hitch hike at least one way. If you have to drive then hopefully the jam is in a seedy part of town. If you haven't had some level of fear when going to a jam or tryout you haven't hit enough jams or try outs.
If you aren't buying your beer or liquor and consuming it prior to entering the club you aren't living the blues life. Drinks served in the clubs are for rich people who work 9-5, not you. Also, you are now the lowest man on the totem pole, underneath the bus boy and dude mopping floors. Learn to embrace disrespect and mistreatment and maybe even some ridicule. That's the fuel.
You should walk some alleys to the club. If the club is in an alley, even better. Maybe pack a pistol once in a while if you feel the need even if it's against the law. You should always have a nice sharp knife. Once you have your own group, make sure to proof test your members using the whiskey trick I mentioned.
The lessons aren't in a book man, they are out there on the street, in the club, waiting for you to answer the call. And never, ever ever ever ever say "blues is easy".
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And don't forget the crossroads. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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Papa Legba just told me that if have not transcribed this until tomorrow morning at 6:13 a.m. you can forget about it ...
EDIT: Did I already mention the transcription has to include the piano part as well?
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DawgBone is right, you need to get those 1 4 5 changes down and also go out and play a TON of jams. I was hitting up jam nights 3-4 times a week for over a year before I found some blues guys who also like jazz. See, I don't want to play frantic shredder Coltrane, Chick Corea or Holdsworth jazz. I want to play Lester Young, Chet Baker and Oscar Peterson jazz. Heavy Blues, heavy swing. So I wanted to find guys who could do blues but liked jazz too.
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3-4 per week is some real dues paying. It worked out good for you, I'm still proud of you getting your own group together. That's badass. I still hit those jams myself when I don't have a lot of gigs on the books. Usually around this time of year into about March things are slower for me. You get tossed into unknown situations and have to make something happen. I think I'm gonna go downtown Austin sunday night to the Friend's Bar blues jam and hopefully see some old friends I haven't seen since prior to covid. Hopefully I can get someone else to drive so I can proof test my playing with some Wild Turkey 101. It's on dirty 6th so it def qualifies as seedy. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Lester on rhythm changes is a pinnacle of pure blues in a jazz setting. A real high water mark IMO.
If you walk to the jams you get to think about the rhythm of your feet on the pavement and think about your licks and approach the whole walk home. I did that many nights and value it still, as part of the journey. 35 miles walking to Austin might be a bit far tho, lol.
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You definitely seem to know what blues is - I'd love to see or hear you play - can you share some footage or audio of your playing please? Originally Posted by DawgBone
Last edited by jamiehenderson1993; 10-26-2024 at 08:31 AM.
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Private message sent. Originally Posted by jamiehenderson1993
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Speaking of which, a forum member shared this -- Joe Pass Guitar Style Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Ain't nothing wrong with chunka-chunka. Well-executed chunka-chunka = lots of freedom for the soloist. Originally Posted by jamiehenderson1993
I'm assuming you can already play all 4 inversions of dominant chords in the 'shell' configuration (6th string, 4th string, 3rd string). At this point, you can consider putting a diminished shell voicing in between each inversion of a dominant chord. (Barry Harris' Dominant 7th Diminished Scale deals with this.) The diminished chords create some movement and add a bit of interest.
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