Blues Guitar Comping / Chords / Rhythm Resources ?

[DawgBone]

My favorite straight dom 7 shape is still the classic barre chord, minus the bottom two strings. If you just barre the top four, you can hammer the 3rd string with a fury using your middle finger for nice effect. Plus it puts the classic pentatonic/blues box right underneath your fingers, which is kinda the easiest box to work effectively.

[geoff23]

Ain't nothing wrong with chunka-chunka. Well-executed chunka-chunka = lots of freedom for the soloist.

I'm assuming you can already play all 4 inversions of dominant chords in the 'shell' configuration (6th string, 4th string, 3rd string). At this point, you can consider putting a diminished shell voicing in between each inversion of a dominant chord. (Barry Harris' Dominant 7th Diminished Scale deals with this.) The diminished chords create some movement and add a bit of interest.

That sounds intriguing, @brent.h! I *think* I know what you mean by 4 inversions of a dominant chord on the 6th/4th/3rd strings - I’m thinking the following (in the key or C, so G7): 3x34xx 7x57xx 10x9.10.xx and 13x12.12.xx (although I may be wrong here because 7x57xx is G major rather than G7 as it has no F in it??). But can I ask what exactly, in this specific context, would be the four dim7 shapes you have in mind here?

[pamosmusic]

jazz-shell-inversions.pdf

I made this for a student a few months ago.

For the passing diminished chords major 6 would work better than major 7, but that’s the same voicings as the minor 7. I wrote Cm7, but those would double as Eb6. I wrote Cm7b5 but those double as Eb-6.

[frabarmus]

[frabarmus]

Perhaps this book, too, might be interesting (for Blues grooves etc.)


Ulf Wakenius Oscar Peterson Licks For Jazz Guitar

[AllanAllen]

jazz-shell-inversions.pdf

I made this for a student a few months ago.

For the passing diminished chords major 6 would work better than major 7, but that’s the same voicings as the minor 7. I wrote Cm7, but those would double as Eb6. I wrote Cm7b5 but those double as Eb-6.

It might help OP to know that we have leaped from learning to comp the blues, to full on Jazz comping.

Also, learn those grips Peter posted. Just one at a time, play through that list as a warm up. Get as far as you get in 5 or 10 minutes and move on.

[pamosmusic]

It might help OP to know that we have leaped from learning to comp the blues, to full on Jazz comping.

Also, learn those grips Peter posted. Just one at a time, play through that list as a warm up. Get as far as you get in 5 or 10 minutes and move on.

He did say blues and jazz blues, in a blues and jazz blues context.

But yeah. I would say learn them all from the root pretty quick.

As you get into it more, learn them from the fifth in the order that you use them. In this case that probably means dominant, then minor 7, then m7b5, then major 7.

Just that gives you tons and tons and stuff to work with. You could live there for a very long time.

From there add the thirds, also in order that you’ll actually use them.

Sevenths last. They tend to be less useful. Major 7 probably not at all.

[brent.h]

Below is Barry Harris' Dominant 7th Diminished Scale of Chords (adapted to the Freddie Green style). It alternates between the G7 chord and the A diminished chord.

Typically, these chords are played in drop 2 voicings (4 adjacent strings), but we're gonna skip the 5th string because chunka-chunka.

dom: 3x34xx
dim: 5x45xx
dom: 7x57xx (you're correct; there is no F in this shell)
dim: 8x78xx
dom: 10x9,10xx
dim: 11x10,11xx
dom: 13x12,12xx
dim: 14x13,14xx

Enjoy!

[pamosmusic]

14 x 13 14 x x

for that last one

[AllanAllen]

Below is Barry Harris' Dominant Diminished Scale of Chords (adapted to the Freddie Green style). It alternates between the G7 chord and the Ab diminished chord.

Typically, these chords are played in drop 2 voicings (4 adjacent strings), but we're gonna skip the 5th string because chunka-chunka.

dom: 3x34xx
dim: 5x45xx
dom: 7x57xx (you're correct; there is no F in this shell)
dim: 8x78xx
dom: 10x9,10xx
dim: 11x10,11xx
dom: 13x12,12xx
dim: 14x13,13xx

Enjoy!

You said Ab diminished at the top, but the example looks like A natural diminished. I'm not familiar enough with BH to say which is right.

[pamosmusic]

You said Ab diminished at the top, but the example looks like A natural diminished. I'm not familiar enough with BH to say which is right.

Yeah typo. He means A natural.

for some reason I caught the typo where the last chord is off by a fret on one note, but not the actual text of the post where it has the wrong chord

[brent.h]

Yeah typo. He means A natural.

for some reason I caught the typo where the last chord is off by a fret on one note, but not the actual text of the post where it has the wrong chord

Ah crap, typo guys.

Sorry about that.

[AllanAllen]

Okay, now that we are past that.

If I switch from G7 to GM7, G-7 or Gm7b5, do I keep pairing them all to the A diminished chord?

Apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread.

[pamosmusic]

Okay, now that we are past that.

If I switch from G7 to GM7, G-7 or Gm7b5, do I keep pairing them all to the A diminished chord?

Apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread.

Yeah. The idea is to switch between the home chord and the dominant functioning diminished chord (the leading tone diminished -- though I think BH usually refers to it as the diminished off the second).

The exception is Gmaj7. There are ways to get that chord cooking, but the operative thing is that since the chord contains the 7th, you don't get the usual eight-note scale by adding the diminished that contains that degree. So you'd use major 6 instead. But the nice thing is that you just use the minor 7 and don't need a new diminished.

Gm7 + A dim = G A Bb C D Eb F F#
Bb6 + C dim = Bb C D Eb F F# G A

Half-diminished has the same relationship to m6

Gm7(b5) = Bbm6

[AllanAllen]

Ah, I see. I wrote out my GM7 as G B D F# and didn't catch F# and Gb being the same thing.

[jamiehenderson1993]

jazz-shell-inversions.pdf

I made this for a student a few months ago.

For the passing diminished chords major 6 would work better than major 7, but that’s the same voicings as the minor 7. I wrote Cm7, but those would double as Eb6. I wrote Cm7b5 but those double as Eb-6.

This is great! If you have any other sheets you've made for students on Blues / Jazz comping (or even lead) I'd love to have them if you're happy to share! This is so great!

[jamiehenderson1993]

Also, thanks so much for all the useful info that's been shared in this thread - tonnes of stuff to think about!

[garybaldy]

Yeah. The idea is to switch between the home chord and the dominant functioning diminished chord (the leading tone diminished -- though I think BH usually refers to it as the diminished off the second).

The exception is Gmaj7. There are ways to get that chord cooking, but the operative thing is that since the chord contains the 7th, you don't get the usual eight-note scale by adding the diminished that contains that degree. So you'd use major 6 instead. But the nice thing is that you just use the minor 7 and don't need a new diminished.

Gm7 + A dim = G A Bb C D Eb F F#
Bb6 + C dim = Bb C D Eb F F# G A

Half-diminished has the same relationship to m6

Gm7(b5) = Em6

Isn't Gm7b5 = Bbm6?

[pamosmusic]

Isn't Gm7b5 = Bbm6?

hahaha yep

[AllanAllen]

Below is Barry Harris' Dominant 7th Diminished Scale of Chords (adapted to the Freddie Green style). It alternates between the G7 chord and the A diminished chord.

Typically, these chords are played in drop 2 voicings (4 adjacent strings), but we're gonna skip the 5th string because chunka-chunka.

dom: 3x34xx
dim: 5x45xx
dom: 7x57xx (you're correct; there is no F in this shell)
dim: 8x78xx
dom: 10x9,10xx
dim: 11x10,11xx
dom: 13x12,12xx
dim: 14x13,14xx

Enjoy!

I had big band rehearsal last night and they called Fly Me To The Moon(see below). It was brutal, really dense with 4 chords to the bar. After rehearsal I went to the piano player with my book and said I needed help, some kind of method to simplify this and get through the gig. He showed me that it was four way close voicings, the explanation seemed VERY near the Barry Harris thing. Taking a chord and pairing it with a diminished chord then, the way he did it, he played all 8 notes at a time and inverted them explaining it was all the same chord.

My point being, if I had learned the names of the chords you listed instead of just the grips, I would have known what was happening.

[pamosmusic]

I had big band rehearsal last night and they called Fly Me To The Moon(see below). It was brutal, really dense with 4 chords to the bar. After rehearsal I went to the piano player with my book and said I needed help, some kind of method to simplify this and get through the gig. He showed me that it was four way close voicings, the explanation seemed VERY near the Barry Harris thing. Taking a chord and pairing it with a diminished chord then, the way he did it, he played all 8 notes at a time and inverted them explaining it was all the same chord.

My point being, if I had learned the names of the chords you listed instead of just the grips, I would have known what was happening.

I hate this stuff so much.

If you’d just played the real book changes you’d have been fine. This happens all the time where you basically got copied and pasted from the saxophone voicings, almost certainly.

Measure 48 is using secondary dominants as passing chords

Measure 49 is what you’re referring to here, often called by arrangers “mechanical voicing” where the passing notes are harmonized with diminished seventh chords that pull to the chord they’re trying to reach.

Measure 50 is diatonic passing chords just walking up a scale, probably with the melody.

Measure 52 and 59 you see some tritone dominants that sound like side-slipping because of the root motion.

Measure 54 is a little weirder but that’s not a wholly bizarre embellishment chord for Dm. You see it tunes like Angel Eyes and Cry Me a River.

Point being these are all textbook (literally) ways of harmonizing non chord tones in soli writing.

If someone handed this to me to sight read I would clock that go “lol no” and then just play the changes I know for Fly Me to the Moon. I’d then pencil in circles on the spots where it’s a whole band hit. My guess is the Bb7 in m 54 would be one I’d like to play with the band, for example. But hard to know without hearing it.

I hate the way arrangers write guitar parts. (Or the way the seem to refuse to write actual guitar parts.)

[pamosmusic]

This whole site is great btw

Big Band Arranging | 13 | Soli Writing — Evan Rogers | Orchestrator | Arranger | Conductor

I read this entire blog series a few months ago when I was starting to arrange for my fifth graders because I was a little rusty. I guess I had a good bit of background with arranging so a lot of this was review, but I think it’s laid out really well and would be good for someone who wants to understand big band writing.

[Christian Miller]

I had big band rehearsal last night and they called Fly Me To The Moon(see below). It was brutal, really dense with 4 chords to the bar. After rehearsal I went to the piano player with my book and said I needed help, some kind of method to simplify this and get through the gig. He showed me that it was four way close voicings, the explanation seemed VERY near the Barry Harris thing. Taking a chord and pairing it with a diminished chord then, the way he did it, he played all 8 notes at a time and inverted them explaining it was all the same chord.

My point being, if I had learned the names of the chords you listed instead of just the grips, I would have known what was happening.

You can learn a lot about comping and passing chords from charts like this.

The more you play charts like this, the more you get use to these moves.

The Barry Harris maj6-dim drop chord stuff was all taken from 40s big band arranging. IIRC George Shearing was the first pianist to apply it in his piano stylings, and Barry was influenced by him. So it's no surprise it shows up in big band charts.

Depending on the pianist, I would mostly pared down voicings.

[AllanAllen]

I've hired the pianist for my quartet, he's excellent and a music teacher, so that's why I felt comfortable approaching him.

Anyway, I feel like with these charts, the arranger has some specific guitar moves or tenor lines they want and, if they'd just notate the melody or diads they want me to play on the 3rd or 4th string, it would be easier. If I really work at these, I'll find a spot where a bar lays nicely on the guitar and then the step wise voice leading is right there. But, learning 7 songs at a time, I forget them faster than I can learn them.

[pamosmusic]

You can learn a lot about comping and passing chords from charts like this.

The more you play charts like this, the more you get use to these moves.

The Barry Harris maj6-dim drop chord stuff was all taken from 40s big band arranging. IIRC George Shearing was the first pianist to apply it in his piano stylings, and Barry was influenced by him. So it's no surprise it shows up in big band charts.

Depending on the pianist, I would mostly pared down voicings.

I should clarify that I don’t hate passing chords. I hate it when an arranger pretty obviously just copies in their passing chords as if that’s useful to a guitar player. It’s very useful as a study in comping. Not useful in performing the music. For me this often feels like an arranging writing out a walking bassline.