Excellent study of Barry Harris’ chord system

[Petimar]

Barry Harris Harmonic Method - YouTube


This playlist is the most organized way of showing Barry’s system I have seen. It has helped fill in some holes in my knowledge, now off to practice.

[Bobby Timmons]

Thx, good stuff. I'm gaining some fluency with BH. So I'm working on summarizing how to apply it to each chord, both with ways I've seen demonstrated and making up my own ways. I'm also looking for devices for how to use it. This has a lot of that material summarized nicely.

One of the videos I liked was him demonstrating you can simply go dom 7th chord, dim, dom 7th chord inversion, dim. I came to the conclusion how that was essential to have on the pallet for dom 7th chords even though I don't believe it is an official BH use.

I also like putting the dim on the root of the chord and the main chord on the extensions. This enables you to use major 7ths, or minor 9/11ths.

[garybaldy]

I'm partial to the Bill Graham videos.

[pamosmusic]

One of the videos I liked was him demonstrating you can simply go dom 7th chord, dim, dom 7th chord inversion, dim. I came to the conclusion how that was essential to have on the pallet for dom 7th chords even though I don't believe it is an official BH use.

Yeah that’s just dominant diminished. He doesn’t use it as much but it’s a thing

C D E F G Ab Bb B C

I also like putting the dim on the root of the chord and the main chord on the extensions. This enables you to use major 7ths, or minor 9/11ths.

“borrowing” I believe?

[Bobby Timmons]

Yeah that’s just dominant diminished. He doesn’t use it as much but it’s a thing

C D E F G Ab Bb B C

Bebop mix flat 6.

“borrowing” I believe?

Actually I realized it's just 6th on the 5th. If you want to do a rootless maj 9 it's just major 6th on the 5th. Like rootless 9 is minor 6th on the 5th.

[pamosmusic]

Bebop mix flat 6.

Gross.

Actually I realized it's just 6th on the 5th. If you want to do a rootless maj 9 it's just major 6th on the 5th. Like rootless 9 is minor 6th on the 5th.

Yeah that is true.

What you described above—changing a note from the sixth chord for a note from one of the adjacent diminished chords, or vice versa—would be borrowing.

I’ve been working on that the last couple weeks and it’s been beating me up good. Cool stuff though.

[Bobby Timmons]

Decided to compile all the BH devices for each chord. Maybe you guys can chime in and fill in more you know of or like. This isn't exhaustive, only the ones I plan to use regularly.

Major 6th/dim same as relative minor 7/dim
Minor 6th/dim same as relative minor 7 b5/dim
Major 6th on the 5th for a rootless maj 9
Plain old 7/dim
7b5/dim
Minor 6th on the 5th for a rootless 9
Tritone minor 6th on the 5th for altered
Minor 9/dim on the root
Just dim/dim for dim or 7b9

[Bobby Timmons]

What you described above—changing a note from the sixth chord for a note from one of the adjacent diminished chords, or vice versa—would be borrowing.

It's not borrowing, it's putting the entire dim chord on the root and the entire main chord on the other notes / extensions without resolving it.

I’ve been working on that the last couple weeks and it’s been beating me up good. Cool stuff though.

But yeah, borrowing seems to be a good device. Didn't know that's what it was called. Will work it.

Gross.

Mad at theory.

[pamosmusic]

It's not borrowing, it's putting the entire dim chord on the root and the entire main chord on the other notes / extensions without resolving it.

Hmm. Not following.

Like instead of C E G A, you’re playing C F Ab B?

Gimme some pitches so I know what you mean.

But yeah, borrowing seems to be a good device. Didn't know that's what it was called. Will work it.

Yessir. I’m struggling with it at the moment but there are beautiful sounds hiding in there.

Mad at theory.

Nope. If you wanted to call me “A Little Annoyed By Fancy-Ass Names For Things When Perfectly Serviceable Ones Already Exist” … then I would accept that.

[Bobby Timmons]

Hmm. Not following.

Like instead of C E G A, you’re playing C F Ab B?

Gimme some pitches so I know what you mean.

Such as minor 6th on the 5th for a 7 chord. In C, on the 5 chord G7. It alternates between D,F,A,B, the minor 6 chord which functions as a rootless G9, the main chord, and Eo7 or Go7 which is the dim on the root of the chord. Rather than the main chord on the root and the dim on the off notes.

My favorite one that I made up is alternating between rootless minor 9 and dim on the root.

Yessir. I’m struggling with it at the moment but there are beautiful sounds hiding in there.

I think so. Just gonna keep practicing it. I want to get pianistic stuff going rather than only stepwise stuff.

Nope. If you wanted to call me “A Little Annoyed By Fancy-Ass Names For Things When Perfectly Serviceable Ones Already Exist” … then I would accept that.

Mad

[pamosmusic]

Oh I was asking about this …

I also like putting the dim on the root of the chord and the main chord on the extensions. This enables you to use major 7ths, or minor 9/11ths.

I wasn’t sure how that translated to sixth on the fifth, but I’m there now. Sixth on the fifth (G6) puts a diminished chord on what would be the root of the chord of the moment (C).

It sounds in the initial post like you’re talking about just replacing the root of the maj6 with the root of the diminished.

Im back now.

[Bobby Timmons]

Yes. You can also make your own up. My favorite I made up is alternating between dim on the root and rootless minor 9.

[pamosmusic]

Yes. You can also make your own up. My favorite I made up is alternating between dim on the root and rootless minor 9.

Like Ao7 and Cmaj7?

There is the 6th on the fifth again. Like G6 on C6, which amounts to Am11 over an A root.

[Bobby Timmons]

Yes, I believe I strained my brain to figure that out. If you alternate between Ao7 and rootless A-9, of B,C,E,G, then it deviates by 1 note, the C instead of D, and wouldn't be 6th on the 5th G6 for Cmaj7.

I came to the conclusion that I like deviating a bit because I think they can sound good and still function well.

[pamosmusic]

Yes, I believe I strained my brain to figure that out. If you alternate between Ao7 and rootless A-9, of B,C,E,G, then it deviates by 1 note, the C instead of D, and wouldn't be 6th on the 5th G6 for Cmaj7.

I came to the conclusion that I like deviating a bit because I think they can sound good and still function well.

Yeah the borrowing would be sick for that … so transposing that B C E G straight through the scale …

B C E G
C D F Ab
D E G A
E F Ab B
F G A C
G Ab B D
Ab A C E
A B D F

Some awesome sounds in there

[Bobby Timmons]

[2bornot2bop]

I'm partial to the Bill Graham videos.

Way too much information in one video! Talk about overloading one’s brain. That’s an entire course of BH in one video. Not to speak of creating a video out of one’s closet. Just a personal observation.

[garybaldy]

Way too much information in one video! Talk about overloading one’s brain. That’s an entire course of BH in one video. Not to speak of creating a video out of one’s closet. Just a personal observation.

I wrote my own comprehensive set of notes of the info in the video. The last time I did anything like that was in the 70s when I was in university studying civil and structural engineering!!

[Bobby Timmons]

I'm a fan of the Bill Graham BH videos also and I thought about summarizing it into notes too. He explains everything and has some cool applications that I haven't heard elsewhere. That tritone minor 6th on the 5th for a dominant chord is spicy!

[pawlowski6132]

Yes, I believe I strained my brain to figure that out. If you alternate between Ao7 and rootless A-9, of B,C,E,G, then it deviates by 1 note, the C instead of D, and wouldn't be 6th on the 5th G6 for Cmaj7.

I came to the conclusion that I like deviating a bit because I think they can sound good and still function well.

Who cares? Do you REALLY need to understand this for anything?

[pcjazz]

Who cares? Do you REALLY need to understand this for anything?

Well you clearly don’t. What an unhelpful comment.

[pawlowski6132]

Well you clearly don’t. What an unhelpful comment.

Answer the question please.

[pamosmusic]

Answer the question please.

The answer to the questions ...

1. Who cares?

Well, obviously the people carrying on a somewhat sincere discussion of the topic on this thread.

2. Do you REALLY need to understand this for anything?


Obviously not, but then again you are on a jazz guitar forum so no one really needs any of this crap. And on a more serious note, theory of any kind is not strictly necessary to music making, but it can be quite helpful if it helps you categorize and process sounds you like. It's a practice tool. Undoubtedly helpful to some. Undoubtedly not to others. But I can guarantee you that incuriosity will get you nowhere.

[pawlowski6132]

The answer to the questions ...

1. Who cares?

Well, obviously the people carrying on a somewhat sincere discussion of the topic on this thread.

2. Do you REALLY need to understand this for anything?


Obviously not, but then again you are on a jazz guitar forum so no one really needs any of this crap. And on a more serious note, theory of any kind is not strictly necessary to music making, but it can be quite helpful if it helps you categorize and process sounds you like. It's a practice tool. Undoubtedly helpful to some. Undoubtedly not to others. But I can guarantee you that incuriosity will get you nowhere.

Ok

[Bobby Timmons]

Who cares? Do you REALLY need to understand this for anything?

Uh, if you like the sound of it and like working advanced harmony, yes. But no, it's not essential. I literally use this stuff sir, I don't just theorize about it. I think it sounds beautiful for ballads and slow medium songs where you have time to get the complicated harmony in there. For faster stuff it's too much.