Partimento

[Christian Miller]

I bought the Job Ijzerman book a few days ago. It's a great book so far although I'm still on chapter 1.

I'm going slowly, taking notes and making up my own examples based on the text and examples in the book.

Does anyone else have the book?

I have it but didn’t personally get much out of it (yet)

That’s not to say someone else wouldn’t… it’s all good info…. But I kind of felt I knew most of that stuff already by the point I got it and the main thing for me was just to practice everything (which it still is.) Should give it another look though.

[Liarspoker]

the main thing for me was just to practice everything (which it still is.)

I was in Frank Vignola's hotel room one time and he told me don't just learn theory but be able to play it so your quote is spot on.

So far the Ijzerman book is counterpoint and the Descending sequence (suspension) as in chapter one of the Mortensen book but you know I'm having a great time writing little 4 or 8 bar pieces with everything that I'm reading.

I know that the beginning chapters lay the foundation for later chapters so it's nice to get everything under the fingers and in the ear as opposed to just reading the text and working through the workbook without playing any examples.

My ultimate goal is to go out and improvise with this stuff for an hour or two and gave it sound good. A lofty goal.

Edit. One think that I found interesting is example 1.6 in harmonic minor where there is a descending leap of a diminished 7th in the melody to avoid an augmented second F - G# ( nothing special there). But the bass seems to be melodic minor. F# & G# ascending and natural minor descending ( usual classical treatment of MM).

Why harmonic minor in the treble and melodic minor in the bass?

[Christian Miller]

Here’s my reasonably finished version of Fenaroli book IV, 5. Compare to earlier versions to hear how little I am improvising lol….

However things do get tweaked as it goes on, so I think it’s still working towards that goal. It’s not like I have a score that must be honoured exactly.

[Christian Miller]

Edit. One think that I found interesting is example 1.6 in harmonic minor where there is a descending leap of a diminished 7th in the melody to avoid an augmented second F - G# ( nothing special there). But the bass seems to be melodic minor. F# & G# ascending and natural minor descending ( usual classical treatment of MM).

Why harmonic minor in the treble and melodic minor in the bass?

well it’s all minor isn’t it? It’s not like you have to stick with one scale, provided you avoid false relations in the harmony.

[Liarspoker]

Here’s my reasonably finished version of Fenaroli book IV, 5. Compare to earlier versions to hear how little I am improvising lol….

However things do get tweaked as it goes on, so I think it’s still working towards that goal. It’s not like I have a score that must be honoured exactly.

Sounds great Christian. Well done

[Liarspoker]

well it’s all minor isn’t it? It’s not like you have to stick with one scale, provided you avoid false relations in the harmony.

Yes but I'm still thinking in terms of one scale per section then another scale for the next section. Ie D Dorian followed by D Aeolian.

It makes sense to combine them if the notes don't clash. Actually Ijzerman says that you can also play the melodic minor as Aeolian as well ascending if it sounds better.

Makes sense....

[Christian Miller]

Yes but I'm still thinking in terms of one scale per section then another scale for the next section. Ie D Dorian followed by D Aeolian.

It makes sense to combine them if the notes don't clash. Actually Ijzerman says that you can also play the melodic minor as Aeolian as well ascending if it sounds better.

Makes sense....

you often have the melodic minor in ascending form descending too

[Liarspoker]

Still messing with little rule of the octave compositions. Here is one of them

Edit just to say that any critique of the composition is welcome

[Christian Miller]

Still messing with little rule of the octave compositions. Here is one of them

Edit just to say that any critique of the composition is welcome

Very nice! I like the way you are using embellishments to enliven the basic chords.

i would say the chords at 5 seconds in sound quite medieval; is that a consecutive fifth in there?

[Christian Miller]

I daresay you already know but this just dropped

[Christian Miller]

Fenaroli Book IV, 2 progress. This one's a bit shorter lol.

Some sections I just have to learn as fingerings - that stuff with the chromatically descending bass is not going to be improvised on haha. But other bits are more flexible and subject to change, which I like.

I thought it might be interesting to compare and contrast my version with Nicola's in the interview I posted above. I've looked at a few ways to play this one, but I'm opting for higher bass as I really enjoy the quasi - contrapuntal shape it gives to a composition when the bass goes right up to an E above middle C, as it does here.

Some transpositions for D R A M A, but on the whole I take a different approach to Nicola, more keyboard like I suppose (but I'm thinking of Bach transcriptions for guitar mostly TBH).

I'm thinking though of doing my next realsation more like him. I'm working on some Guiliani at the moment - the fughetta as it happens is a nice and not to difficult piece with a lot to teach about suspensions chains and so on.

[Liarspoker]

Sounds great Christian.

I'll have a proper listen later. Am loving suspension chains alright. A simple technique with a big return.

[Christian Miller]

Excellent work

[Christian Miller]

I made a new Partimento related video

[Liarspoker]

Here is my first Realisation. Furno n1.

I've been too busy with a renovation to dive deeply into Partimento but am on holidays now so will have a week or two to get into it then hopefully daily or almost daily from the start of September onwards.

I'll check out your video when I have better wifi Christian. Broadband is shocking here in the West of Ireland.

[Christian Miller]

Here is my first Realisation. Furno n1.

I've been too busy with a renovation to dive deeply into Partimento but am on holidays now so will have a week or two to get into it then hopefully daily or almost daily from the start of September onwards.

I'll check out your video when I have better wifi Christian. Broadband is shocking here in the West of Ireland.

well done - sounds like you are using a two part texture mostly?

[Liarspoker]

well done - sounds like you are using a two part texture mostly?

Mostly, yes. I have a Ukrainian guitar playing friend so to keep her spirits up and to distract her, or at least provide an escape, from her daily life we are going through the RO chapter in Mortensen's book.
Even improvising with simple RO sounds good although I know that with future basso continuo things get very, err, interesting
Are you spending much time on Partimento at the moment Christian? For me it seems like there's always something else to do, both with life and with the guitar, but then I push those things aside for a little while to do my Partimento. I certainly wouldn't be doing hours with it atm

[Christian Miller]

Mostly, yes. I have a Ukrainian guitar playing friend so to keep her spirits up and to distract her, or at least provide an escape, from her daily life we are going through the RO chapter in Mortensen's book.

Oh that’s a nice idea. There is something very soothing about this stuff.

Even improvising with simple RO sounds good although I know that with future basso continuo things get very, err, interesting
Are you spending much time on Partimento at the moment Christian? For me it seems like there's always something else to do, both with life and with the guitar, but then I push those things aside for a little while to do my Partimento. I certainly wouldn't be doing hours with it atm

yeah, here and there. Tbh I’ve gone a little bit more in the direction of improvising on Bach’s basses using RO, moti etc and them comparing to what he did. I’m also very interested in focussing in two part texture to get away from the chord thing a bit.

That way I can look at what Bach does and the sequence just figures through the RO and so on, ad well as seeing the neat little tweaks he makes to the basic harmony. But Ro is quite a long way there.

id also like to get better at harmonising existing melodies. This seems like a big but missing from partimento; I think this would have been handled with solfeggio maybe?

Tbh Keyboard Partimenti are often a bit too florid to act as a good basis for improv for me at the moment (I just end up harmonising stuff in thirds and tenths and so on) a simpler bass like ones in guitar and lute repertoire is a bit easier to use.

[Shannon Millard]

Hi all, I’ve just heard of Partimento, and I can’t wait to get stuck in! Thanks everyone for the amazing videos, very inspiring. I have a couple of questions for those with some experience. Do you think it’s possible to learn straight from the primary sources available at partimenti.org along with the guidelines there, or would I be best to get a modern book on the subject such as the Mortensen book mentioned here? Also, any tips or resources for improving my bass-clef sight-reading? Thanks in advance :-)

[Liarspoker]

Hi Shannon, welcome to the club.

There are plenty of free resources out there to get started. The problem is that you will probably find them and put them together in a nonlinear way. In addition, bear in mind I don't know what you know so am just saying, you'll encounter terms and playing practise which you then have to look up.

The Sanguinetti book is very expensive but also very good. If you read the book from start to finish then you'll be reading about a lot of things that my not interest you but all the rules etc are contained in the book.

I also have the Ijzerman book of which I have read a few chapters. It's a good book but for pure Partimento I think that the Sanguinetti book is better.

If you are brand new to historical music then Mortensen's book is a must. It's a much broader book than Sanguinetti's but contains all the little building blocks that leads to good Partimento.

Mortensen's book was perfect for me starting off (and I am still very much a beginner when it comes to Partimento but it's such fun).

Regarding improving your reading there's only one thing for it; read, read and read some more

[Christian Miller]

Hi all, I’ve just heard of Partimento, and I can’t wait to get stuck in! Thanks everyone for the amazing videos, very inspiring. I have a couple of questions for those with some experience. Do you think it’s possible to learn straight from the primary sources available at partimenti.org along with the guidelines there, or would I be best to get a modern book on the subject such as the Mortensen book mentioned here? Also, any tips or resources for improving my bass-clef sight-reading? Thanks in advance :-)

Well that’s how I’ve been studying it. There seem to be more and more partimento based YouTube channels popping up, and I think Nicola Pignantiello is going to put a guitar book out soon. Croton’s figured bass book had been helpful to me, although partimento and continuo are not quite the same thing.

As a road map, I’d start with preludes. That’s what mortensens book starts with and there’s a reason. Anything can be used. So I’d start with rule of the octave, cadences and a couple of schemata like ‘page one’, ‘Romanesca’ and ‘quiesenza’ and just dick around with them. Look at Bach preludes and steal ideas.

Then, maybe try improving a melody on a ground bass, like pachelbel’s canon, lamento that type of thing, combining a simple schema with a cadence and repeating. Mortensen’s silverberg variations exercise is a good example of this type of thing. I think all the relevant info is in the Mortensen book.

furthermore mortensen’s lectures on cedarvillemusic (his YouTube channel) are very good, he seems to be on a mission to introduce newcomers to this world, which is great

i would regard this as helpful preparatory work for the more complex through composed world of partimenti.

I would suggest joining the art of partimento Facebook group too, where people like Sanguinetti, Peter Van Tour and Mortensen often offer advice, encouragement and scholarship (although the level of that group ranges up to very advanced.)

Not much to offer on bass clef reading other than - do it as much as you can

it’s just the treble clef shifted down a gap, if that helps

[BWV]

Hi all, I’ve just heard of Partimento, and I can’t wait to get stuck in! Thanks everyone for the amazing videos, very inspiring. I have a couple of questions for those with some experience. Do you think it’s possible to learn straight from the primary sources available at partimenti.org along with the guidelines there, or would I be best to get a modern book on the subject such as the Mortensen book mentioned here? Also, any tips or resources for improving my bass-clef sight-reading? Thanks in advance :-)

Daniel Nistico has some nice guitar resources on his site

The Rule of the Octave - DANIEL NISTICO

[Christian Miller]

@BWV While the info is useful Nicola Pignantiello suggested these nineteenth century fingering were fairly unhelpful and wouldn’t got about using them himself and I’d have to agree. They are a bit hard to play. I’ll attach this interview because it has some useful insights.

Actually the Fenaroli ROs adapt pretty well to the guitar. They are even in G! You do have to do some mucking around with some of them though. To be honest I just worked out my own. It’s not too hard. One thing I would not worry about is SATB. Use whatever number of voices is most convenient and natural.

Don’t worry too much about parallels in the inner voices, just keep the outer voices moving in contrary, oblique or similar motion in 10ths.

here’s an old vid I did with some ROs and how to derive them

[Liarspoker]

Nicola actually gave me some fingerings. I'll see if I can dig them out during the weekend or next week.
Like Christian I made up my own fingerings too and actually preferred them over Nicola's fingerings.

[BWV]

@BWV While the info is useful Nicola Pignantiello suggested these nineteenth century fingering were fairly unhelpful and wouldn’t got about using them himself and I’d have to agree. They are a bit hard to play. I’ll attach this interview because it has some useful insights.

Actually the Fenaroli ROs adapt pretty well to the guitar. They are even in G! You do have to do some mucking around with some of them though. To be honest I just worked out my own. It’s not too hard. One thing I would not worry about is SATB. Use whatever number of voices is most convenient and natural.

depends what you are trying to accomplish - agree 4 part voicings are no good if you are attempting busier, more contrapuntal realizations or stuff with a faster harmonic rhythm,
however 4 part harmony is fairly standard in 19th century guitar music, like Sor and it’s sort of essential if you want to do figuration preludes or Alberti- bass type figurations with a slower harmonic rhythm