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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    That’s the cover I was talking about. I love Segovia, but when it comes to Sor’s studies, I prefer to work from Sor’s notation.
    I know that Segovia has different fingerings...maybe sometimes not comfortable.
    But my music school teacher told me- "don't change that fingering". It was about 45 years ago...
    It was probably just that he adored him.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Yes, there are pros and cons about having such a singular giant in one style of guitar playing.

  4. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Years ago someone gave me an old copy of the Segovia edition, but at some point I wanted to have all the studies so I got the Chanterelle complete edition.

    Attachment 85287
    Hi, G,
    I also, like many, studied from the Sor edition as it was recommended by my teacher at the time in the early 90's.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  5. #29

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    I have this one and must get back into it again

    Just Ask Segovia-img20211015194921-jpg

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    I have this one and must get back into it again

    Just Ask Segovia-img20211015194921-jpg
    Same!

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazznylon
    Same!
    Would be interesting to start a study group on this book/these pieces although what I'm playing now is plenty for me. Never the less I'd join if one was set up.

    No doubt you guys would play these pieces light as a feather where as I probably sound like bricks crashing down

  8. #32

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    There are study groups for Sor studies on Delcamp, a classical-guitar forum. I wouldn't join one here, as I have a long history of playing Sor studies on historical instruments, using Sor's technique outlined in his Method, played from facsimiles of the original scores - I even have an album of them on iTunes played on a 19th-century guitar - and would drive everyone here mad by constantly saying "that's not how Sor would have done it", or "the editor has changed things here FOR NO GOOD REASON!" etc, So, go ahead, but count me out But I would like to encourage people to explore Sor's studies. They are the most musical of the 19th-century guitar fodder.

  9. #33
    " . . . would drive everyone here mad by constantly saying "that's not how Sor would have done it", or "the editor has changed things here FOR NO GOOD REASON!" etc, " Rob MacKillop


    Hi, R,
    I think you're wrong about potential negative response and your feedback would be appreciated by many on this Forum since you have studied/played the material in great detail/depth over the years. The CG section of JGF has as much potential for these discussions since I believe there are many CG's--present and past, who would would benefit-- if not contribute substantially as evidenced by many recent discussions. Sadly, many of these studies have been dismissed as didactic despite some very significant writing and there's probably not a jobber that doesn't rely on them for material as well as those of Carcassi. And, as far as potential contrary opinions, they just make the conversations richer while adding another perspective. Just a thought.
    Play live . . . Marinero

    P.S. As an example, I'm currently working on Paganini's "Romance" from the Sonata in A Major of which there are two versions: Paganini's original and Ponce's-- which for all practical purposes are completely different scores. The original is one of the most beautiful pieces in CG repertoire while Ponce's, certainly as beautiful, is as close to Jazz improvisation as you'll ever hear as played by Segovia. In order for any musician to attempt this music, he/she must first be conversant in both editions and secondly decide which works for them personally. In addition to this, a serious musician must also put everything in both a historical and practical perspective which requires considerable research as I suggested someone like you could provide for those interested in Sor. For those interested, I found this remarkable PHd thesis for Paganini online and I would like to share with those who are interested.
    M
    analysis-37-sonatas-paganini.pdf


  10. #34

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    It would be a pity if you didn't join us Rob (presuming a group gets set up) as your playing expertise would be a valuable contribution and we would surely learn a lot by watching you play the piece.

    I'm sure that the better players here can just read through it however I have started the piece and it will probably take me a week or two, with good daily practise, to get it up to speed.

    Just out of interest who would be willing to join a group here on the JGF to play and study the Estudio pieces?

    Marinero it would be great to have you aboard as well.

  11. #35
    "Marinero it would be great to have you aboard as well." Liarspoker

    Hi, L,
    I'm always interested if topics are related to specific elements in the music/score. Although, for me, the study of Sor was strictly pedagogical in nature rather than as preferred performance pieces. I ,also, have both editions for reference. It would also be helpful for you to provide, if possible, the performances of select pieces from professionals that YOU like the most to enhance the discussions and use as convenient reference points.
    Play live . . . Marinero

    P.S. One caveat: I generally spend only 1 hour+/- per day, total, online since it can be very time consumptive when allotting time slots to practice 3 hours daily. And, then there's a thing called life that always manages to get in my way. So, responses may not always be rapid fire but I will respond if appropriate-- especially related to "performance/artistic" issues/considerations rather than the drier elements of mathematic theory unless relevant to the impact of the performance. Good luck, L! M




  12. #36

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    Question: How do you get people to stop posting on a thread?

    Answer: By asking them to learn a piece, record it and post it

    Unfortunately it seems that there has been no interest in working through this tune together but that's ok as I'll keep working on it myself.

    I see that Estudio 1 is a grade 7 piece. The fingerings aren't that bad although I prefer some other fingerings sometimes such as the last chord in bar 13 but I can see why Segovia fingers it like this.

    The whole point of the piece is to play chords legato and therein lies the difficulty.

    Also thanks to Segovia for bringing the tempo of the piece way down from andantino to lento.

    I'm enjoying the piece and am probably spending more time on it then I should but isn't that always the way?

  13. #37

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    Well you have certainly got me interested in having another look at the Sor studies and playing some of them, although I don’t think I’ve really got time at the moment to do a study group type thing.

    Actually I did play through that study 1 last night (using the Chanterelle book), getting all the voices to sustain correctly is quite tricky. The Chanterelle edition gives Sor’s published fingerings but also some suggested alternative fingerings. (I believe some of this arises from the fact that Sor played a smaller guitar, so some of the stretches are harder with Sor’s fingerings on a modern guitar.)

    I might compare them to my Segovia edition to see what the differences are. Unfortunately the person who gave me that book scribbled and drew circles round every bar in vivid coloured felt pens, I don’t know what he thought he was up to! Makes my copy of the Segovia book a bit difficult to use. But in any case I prefer using the Chanterelle edition, it has lots of useful historical notes and info. (and it has all of Sor’s studies, plus some of the exercises from his ‘Method’).

    I wouldn’t mind recording one or two of the studies (I used to play the famous B minor one), but it’ll be a while before I get time to do it properly.

  14. #38

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    The first half-dozen or so of Segovia's Sor Studies are really good for hybrid picking study as well.

  15. #39

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    I have exactly this book/$2/...Great music playing by great John Williams:

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Well you have certainly got me interested in having another look at the Sor studies.
    I wouldn’t mind recording one or two of the studies (I used to play the famous B minor one), but it’ll be a while before I get time to do it properly.
    I agree that a study group for the whole book is a bit ambitious but would you be willing to record and post study 1? I'm hoping to post it in two weeks time but it might be a little longer as I'm also learning some tunes to play with a local artist.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    I have exactly this book/$2/...Great music playing by great John Williams:
    I found the first Noad book in a second hand shop for €2 a few summers ago. Love bargains

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    I agree that a study group for the whole book is a bit ambitious but would you be willing to record and post study 1? I'm hoping to post it in two weeks time but it might be a little longer as I'm also learning some tunes to play with a local artist.
    I’ll certainly consider it, I would like to record some classical guitar stuff so this would be a good one to start with.

  19. #43

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    Guys - if you're really thinking of starting a classical guitar study group I would highly recommend the Stanley Yates Graded Repertoire for Guitar, Book One.

    It starts simple, gradually gets more advanced, is very musical, and includes a well curated selection from many composers, including (the ever boring) Fernando Sor.

    So, it's easy to jump right in. Even the simplest of pieces can be played very musically.

    https://www.amazon.com/Graded-Repert.../dp/B014TAL04G

  20. #44

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    Here's a good explanation of Study 1.


  21. #45

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    I saw him twice. The first time there were some obvious rock-n-roller kids in the crowd, and I heard one of them say loudly "Where's his amp?"

    The second time in Toronto, he was not doing too well, aging, but he was very gracious in the greeting line after the performance. I think he had mellowed. I brought along my VL Preludes edition and asked him to sign it, and he didn't hesitate, and actually seemed grateful that someone thought of asking him for that.

  22. #46

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    Yeah Andres, where’s your flipping amp?

    Such an amateur.

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Yeah Andres, where’s your flipping amp?

    Such an amateur.
    Bet he didn't have one of them cool pointy guitars either

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Yeah Andres, where’s your flipping amp?
    C’mon, everyone knows he was a Marshall dude.

    Just Ask Segovia-1c884579-b58f-48de-8ca1-f6943320d226-jpeg

  25. #49
    Hi, LP,
    It doesn't mean that people aren't interested in your studies, but rather that you should ask more specific questions. Many here have real time constraints or, in the case of the Sor studies, played them far in the past--for me back in the early 90's. And, most students, rarely, played all of them but rather selected pieces chosen by their teacher. So, listen to the performers you like for any particular piece you're working on (if possible) and then make a list of your questions/problems based on your playing that are unclear. I think you'll get the responses you want if members here have played them. So, 2, 5, 6(linear), and, later, 17 are very accessible to late beginner/early intermediate players while those more harmonically complex require some real effort. I hope this helps you!
    Play live . . . Marinero

    P.S. Are you studying with a university-trained CG teacher? M

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    I see that Estudio 1 is a grade 7 piece. The fingerings aren't that bad although I prefer some other fingerings sometimes such as the last chord in bar 13 but I can see why Segovia fingers it like this.

    The whole point of the piece is to play chords legato and therein lies the difficulty.
    There is also the fact that there are independent voices threaded through the piece, which have to be maintained separately across the chords (hence some of the fingerings designed to facilitate this). i.e. it’s more complex than just ‘block chords’ moving around.