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Those of you who have tried normal tension / hard tension / extra hard tension strings on their guitar.
Which of the three types of string did you prefer for tone? ( Not how long they last but purely for tone / warmth of sound). Normal tension? Did you find that the harder tension strings take away some of the tone of the guitar? Make of string you preferred?
Many thanks.
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03-12-2020 07:18 AM
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When I played classical I liked extra hard tension for the power/volume/dynamics (less warmth of sound). It just depends so much on what and how you play. If I was going to play bossa I'd get lighter tension.
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Medium tension, hands down. So much more you can do with your hands to shape the tone, and I don't just mean vibrato. The only downside is that it's harder to make the sound jump at you.
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Hard tension=best sound for me. Light to medium tension has a thinner sound and a sloppy feel. Extra hard makes you work too much physically and can have a negative effect on high-dollar lightly built classical guitars. I have played every string imaginable in the last 30 years and have returned to D'Addario EJ46 High Tension for their neutral sound, easy playability and good price. Many times throughout the year you can buy a 10 pack on sale for about $60.00. Average retail is $8.95 Just for the record, there is a difference among strings . . . however, a great string will not make you a great player . . . just a player who plays great strings. The magic of CG is in your hands and head. And, no electronic hocus pocus can give you a better sound. Good playing . . . Marinero
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Hard tension with gut trebles when I was in that mode long ago. Unfortunately due to space limitations I rarely get my classical guitar out of its case now.
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Each guitar responds differently to the strings on it. I find that my Lester devote concert flamenco guitars benefit from a medium weight, while my classical guitars sing better with a heavier gauge. On my Godin Multiac nylon 7-string, any well-made string works fine., D'Addarios generally live on that.
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La Bella 860 medium-hard silver-plated with nylon-wound 2nd and 3rd strings on my cedar-topped Yairi handmade.
The wound strings give me a better grip for vibrato purposes.
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A final thought for you, Swing,
For those who play 3-4 hours a day and have good ears, you will generally "eat" a set of strings in 25-30 hours. I know since I have logged my practice/playing hours over a 6 month period and these numbers are very close. The first thing you will notice is loss of intonation and a muddier, less intense sound. Then, you'll be tuning very frequently as the strings will not hold their pitch. I have talked to some luthiers about playing "dead" strings and they said it is not good for a quality instrument. I don't know if this is science or luthier black magic but I have never done this on any instrument. I hope this helps you. Good playing . . . Marinero
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I use hard tension. If my right hand technique was better, I could warrant medium. But it's not.
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interesting! i do think, that especially on a new guitar the vibrations spread across it contribute to it's eventual tone...even tho even that is continually changing
Originally Posted by Marinero
but, no reason to use less than stellar strings these days..relatively cheap and readily available...
cheers
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This is certainly true. However, for some strange reason, many CG teachers I know, including two I studied with in the early days, never stressed the importance of changing dead strings or, for that matter, the proper way to maintain your instrument. Perhaps it is different today. Good playing . . . Marinero
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Well somebody made that thing that supposedly helps break in acoustics. The video below might be interesting to some. Originally Posted by neatomic
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Agree with RonJazz, from my experience it is guitar dependent. On my rosewood spruce classical I use EJ45's normal tension and it sounds just fine. On my cedar spruce flamenco guitar I use Saverez Hard tension carbon trebles and D'Addario Composite bass strings. I also change strings on a 2:1 basis i.e. I change my trebles twice for every time I change my bass strings. When I change them is dependent on how much I play them. You know when it is time to change.
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It's not tension but effective stiffness of the string. Stiffer strings are thicker if the same material as more flexible strings; or made from a stiffer material at a similar diameter. Stiffer strings require more tension to reach pitch, with a stronger fundamental and less overtone content. This is why the timbre of strings changes as you play higher on the neck.
For jazz, I find the softer attack and warmer sound of more flexible/lower tension strings to be better. I currently use the softest D'Addarios on my nylon string guitars, one of which is a semi-hollow Rick Turner Renaissance and the other is a Takamine acoustic-electric. The equation might be different if I was playing a purely acoustic instrument.
Overall I am finding that I can get a tone I like on lighter strings. On steel string instruments I have generally gone to 11s, finding that there is really no need to be wrestling with thick, high tension strings. I don't need to be fighting the guitar; fighting my musical ignorance is already enough work.
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A little late to the thread here, but ...
I mostly play classical guitar. I have two pretty nice CG's - an Ashley Sanders Spruce/lattice and a Jesus Marzal Cedar/fan brace. The Marzal sounds best to my ear with lighter gauge strings. The Sanders sounds terrible with the same strings that make the Marzal sing. I use Aquila Alabastro (Blue Pkg) on the Sanders which are kind of a very hard medium or soft hard tension set.
dave
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I made this flatwound tension comparison chart with actual numbers directly from Pyramid CEO. Ti and Chromes are printed on each packet.
The major difference being round core or hex, Ti have lower tension because the core is thinner likewise with Pyramid, a Hex core also has what is called a perceived tension this is partly to do with feel, Hex strings the core is more tightly wound and not so flexible, resulting in perceived harder stiffer tension. I am not a string expert so may have slightly vary Official term, i can only be accurate from a players perspective, i have used them all.
Note Thomastic TI is approx in between 11 & 12 of regular brands. the high E ist string on Thomastic is marginally thinner than most other regular steel string which by the way all have the same tension. Thomastic use a German Imperial measuring system . It is minute the difference i can feel the difference, if on the same guitar and i have not had as drink. if i have not had a drink the feeling goes away after say 10 minute, this is because you become used to it (acclimatise) im am not joking the body is used to calibrating fine measurement ask violin players or good luthiers who could shave a neck or adjust to fine degrees.
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Many thanks for the summary chart.
If I may ask a question?
I have noticed that you say TI strings have lower tension because the core is thinner. I am rather sure that a given string, of a given mass, will have the same tension as another string of the same mass regardless of the core thickness.
Yes, there may be minor mass differences based on the actual specific gravity of the materials used and the air space inside a string based on the winding and core shapes. But to a significant degree, one flat wound .050 string will have a very similar mass as another.
Back to your opinion that TI strings have lower tension and that this is due to the core thickness...
If we look at this view, much of the data in your chart says that a given T-I gauge actually seems to have MORE tension, not less.
For example, the T-I JS 12-50 set has a 050 gauge for the low E and a claimed tension of 23.3.
The Chromes 11 to 50 set has a low E of 050 and a claimed tension of 21.5.
The TI 050 string per this chart has higher tension, not lower.
In another example, look at the TI 13-53 set and the G string. It is .021 with a claimed tension of 27.3. The Chromes 11-50 set has a G string of 022 and a claimed tension of 25.3.
In this case the narrower 021 gauge TI string has higher tension vs. the 022 of the chromes set.
There are other examples in the chart that show that some of these tension numbers can be a little all over the place in both directions.
But there is nothing consistent in either the principle or the data that suggests that a narrower core results in lower tension.
I have limited my examples to TI and Chromes because I am very familiar with both strings. I have only tried Pyramids once maybe 10 years ago.
Anyway, thanks for the great chart.
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I am not an expert on strings after very many years retirement/layoff from playing, i put a new strings on DaDDario Chromes 13-56 and thought bloody hell,
getting weak old etc, thinking these are a bit heavy, the same Guitar i had gigged with million times.
Anyway this made me dig deeper, i pulled out an old set of Chromes 13-56 i had had from about cant recall exactly but rough 17 years,
i looked at each strings tension figures and diameter etc. overall it has gone up from 164 ish to 195 lbs overall set, so more digging, i phoned Daddario
UK spoke to a Tech person, very polite and friendly but had no real info to give out, i dont think he even knew what Flatwound was.
To your point tension ( i could be wrong on this) i dont believe is the issue to string tension yes if a solid/plain string but on a wound string Hex or Round core, it is the thickness of the core that determines tension, ie a thinner or thicker core needs to be wound to specific amount to create the pitch.
ie a thinner core does not so much tension ( force in Kg or Lbs) to bring to certain pitch, so a thicker core needs more tension.
The flatwound wrapping is only wrapping around the core and is not under tension as such ( i may be out) a bit, but thats the general picture.
there is a difference between Hex and Round core google some diagrams you see. Hex produces a tighter taunter wrap, result in PERCEIVED tension,
this is not so scientific, it is perceived, this is because hex core feels stiffer, not so floppy ( again not scientific) feel lots of players use to describe Thomastic etc .
I hope this helps i spend hours and hours, looking at different flat wounds. i think we all do that, i was pissed as i couldn't play as well as i used to the chops i had diminished , but age plays a part, funny thing is you get smarter att playing find simpler ways to do,
I have tried very many strings, I wont use Chromes 13-56 tension to high, i do use Pyramid flatwound same gauge 13's heavy, they suit me.
I use Thomastic 13 flats on an electric guitar and like the action on the deck not low but super lo with heavy strings/ or should i say thick.
....also did a lot of research into what players Wes Tal Benson use its all super low action and heavy strings this is from a well respected player known here, and a friend of G Benson, the myth they played with high action is not correct, however there are players who prefer higher.
additionally the thicker or more tension a string has , you can achieve a much lower action, This is a fact , and is science
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In recent years the term “compliance” has come into use to describe the resistance to lateral movement of the string (generally down to the fret). Compliance is not the same as tension, as you note. For example, the length of string between the bridge and tailpiece does not change the actual tension of the string, but if there is extremely low friction over the bridge, this extra string length can change the compliance.
Likewise a more flexible string can feel VERY VERY VERY slightly more compliant.
Great point you mention regarding higher string tension and lower action!
The physics of this agrees with you.
At at given plucking force (and consequent lateral displacement), a heavier string will vibrate in a smaller arc than a lighter string. Depending (very much) on one’s playing style one could absolutely find that heavier strings allow far lower action, and that this can mean that a heavier string set could be actually as easy (or easier) to play because of the lower action this can allow.
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yes good stuff, i used to get upset when now and again a few people played my guitar 14-58 flatwound they asked what strings when i told them they did not believe me. as it felt approx . 12 ish gauge, and so easy to play.
That was a JP20 Ibanez 25.5" INCREDIBLY straight stable neck 5 piece laminated, ebony f/board in humidly 100% heat cold never moved ever the build quality was .excellent way above Gibson, superb fretwork and flat board this allows for SUPA LO action it was so easy to play and something else happens with lo lo action is even more tension goes, this is not always achievable. .
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When I work on guitars, I often use old strings removed from guitars to get a general set-up, or to keep the neck at tension while working on the guitar, before installing new strings and doing a fine setup. I keep a box of used strings, and some of them are not marked for guage, so I sometimes measure them with a set of digital calipers.
Hooboy! Let's just say that not all .012s (and other guages as well) are created equal. Lots of variation in the diameters of unwound strings (which isn't accounted for by how one measures), which I bet is similar in the core windings of the wound strings.Last edited by Hammertone; 04-30-2020 at 04:11 AM.
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labella has fairly recently released low tension bass strings...they use a vintage style round core but still use stainless steel outer wrap
here's how they describe...(and their method of making it lower tension)
La Bella’s Low Tension Flats are the best-selling light tension flat wound string on the market. Adopting the same techniques behind our world-famous Deep Talkin’ Bass strings, the Low Tension Flats deliver the same classic sound but without the floppy-string effect associated with other light tension flat wound strings. These hand-wound and hand-polished strings are equipped with round cores for flexibility, and narrower ribbon wire to achieve that unrivaled smooth feeling strings uniquely characteristic to La Bella Strings.
Stainless Steel Flat Wound
Round cores for greater flexibility and narrower ribbon for an unrivaled smooth feeling
Light Tension
cheers
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Does this include Guitar strings or ONLY Bass, i looked on there site Zulch, under 20PM JazzGFlats Medium 13-56 they just state Medium Tension nothing else.
no indivual string specs.
This is basically how Thomastic Ti and Pyramid make their strings, gauges differ, there have been making like this for decades. i believe all strings were round core way back or originally , And i think DaDarrio started the hex core vibe, as it was cheaper, and so they say produce a better quality string.
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Why do you believe that making hexagonal wire is cheaper than round? If that is true, why is all the cheap wire on the market round and not hexagonal?
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With my arthritis, it looks like I'll have to stick with the TI .012 flats.
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