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  1. #1

    Short scale classical with cutaway and electronics?

    Can anyone recommend a luthier or factory producer who makes such instruments? Ideally a 630-640 scale. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Bradenton, FL
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    953
    Check with Tom Prisloe at Pavan Guitars. Great to deal with and it's possible to do a custom order IIRC.

  3. #3
    Just FYI, unless you have a very good reason for the cutaway, I would avoid it on a CG.

    Prisloe does make an excellent guitar (I have a classical that he carved the top on), his turnaround time on a custom instrument is substantial however.


    good luck

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Mystic CT
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    cutaway on an electrified classical guitar really has no effect at all except to facilitate the higher notes.

  5. #5
    Yamaha made a short scale nylon electric instrument. AEX500N may have been the model number iirc.

    But, the fretboard is narrow, unlike a classical.
    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 06-12-2018 at 12:32 AM.

  6. #6
    Anybody familiar with the the Yamaha NCX models? Particularly the 1200 and 2000.

    I have an NCX700 which I'm pretty much ecstatically happy with, except...

    it sounds like a cigar box strung with rubber bands. Well, a cigar box with flawless intonation, the perfect neck profile, an adjustable truss rod, and a cutaway. But a cigar box nonetheless.

    Part of that I suspect is it's built for feeback resistance. I'm just wondering if the upscale models sound better, acoustically.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by whitebeard View Post
    Anybody familiar with the the Yamaha NCX models? Particularly the 1200 and 2000.

    I have an NCX700 which I'm pretty much ecstatically happy with, except...

    it sounds like a cigar box strung with rubber bands. Well, a cigar box with flawless intonation, the perfect neck profile, an adjustable truss rod, and a cutaway. But a cigar box nonetheless.

    Part of that I suspect is it's built for feeback resistance. I'm just wondering if the upscale models sound better, acoustically.
    Have you tried heavier/tighter strings? That might help, I'm not sure.
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    I think most luthiers that do custom instruments would accommodate such a request. When i finally commision a classical, i 'll probably go for both these features myself too, as i enjoy them a lot. But the short scale does sound a bit different.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound View Post
    Have you tried heavier/tighter strings? That might help, I'm not sure.

    yeah, it's currently strung with D'Addario extra hard tension, which did help, and I swapped out the plastic bridge for bone, also an improvement. Cigar box is maybe unnecessarily cruel, but there's just not much tone to work with acoustically. Very comfortable to play, though.

    Speaking of the OP's question, I can't answer directly but if you're not already sure the shorter scale is what you want it'd be good to try one a while before commisioning a build. I have a Hill Player 640, very nice guitar for the money but haven't found any real advantage over 650.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by whitebeard View Post
    Anybody familiar with the the Yamaha NCX models? Particularly the 1200 and 2000.

    I have an NCX700 which I'm pretty much ecstatically happy with, except...

    it sounds like a cigar box strung with rubber bands. Well, a cigar box with flawless intonation, the perfect neck profile, an adjustable truss rod, and a cutaway. But a cigar box nonetheless.

    Part of that I suspect is it's built for feeback resistance. I'm just wondering if the upscale models sound better, acoustically.
    I can't speak to a comparison between the NCX 700 and the 1200 but I do own and enjoy a NTX 1200R. That said, the enjoyment is primarily when amplified. The NTX is a bit thinner and has a narrower neck (I widened the string spacing which provided the equivalent of a nearly 2" nut i.e. they left a lot of space on either side of the e strings). The unamplified tone is pretty dead when compared to my hand built classical or flamenco guitars. The finish, weight, bracing all combine to damp/muffle the unamplified tone. The amplified tone however is really good to my ears. I play this guitar through a Elite Acoustic amp and its sounds very natural once one tweaks the tone. Without playing both models side by side, my guess would be a less than significant difference between the two unamplified.

    The pickups in all the NTX/NCX models are identical so you are paying for solid wood etc. I don't come from a classical background nor do I primarily play classical music so the neck on this guitar is something very familiar and comfortable. While I enjoy the tone and volume of my hand built guitars I enjoy playing this one more.

    I am considering splurging and having Kenny Hill make me one of his Custom Crossover guitars similar to the to the one linked below with some changes e.g. True Temperament frets, plain rosewood, 22 radius etc.


    2018 Hill Custom Crossover - 640mm

  11. #11
    Thanks, all, for the recommendations and comments. I am checking them out. I compared a friend's Yamaha, don't recall the model number, to my 20 year old Ruben Flores 336mm with pickups added after purchase, and the RF just sounded much better both acoustically and amplified. Also, for me a 336 is much more comfortable to play than a 650.

    Would appreciate other recommendations if others have ideas.

  12. #12
    I haven't played a Yamaha NCX or NTX but have heard they're optimized for amplified sound. I've heard the same about Taylor nylon crosssovers.

    Darren Hippner, at Hippner Guitars, is a fine luthier (I'm not affiliated). His prices are good too.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by rob taft View Post
    I can't speak to a comparison between the NCX 700 and the 1200 but I do own and enjoy a NTX 1200R. That said, the enjoyment is primarily when amplified. The NTX is a bit thinner and has a narrower neck (I widened the string spacing which provided the equivalent of a nearly 2" nut i.e. they left a lot of space on either side of the e strings). The unamplified tone is pretty dead when compared to my hand built classical or flamenco guitars. The finish, weight, bracing all combine to damp/muffle the unamplified tone.
    Thanks, that confirms what I suspected. So it is a design characteristic of the line. well, it is very good at what it was designed to be, can't really complain.

    wow, lot of changes in the Hill line since I last looked. I see they're now offering cutaway and pickup options in the Player series, although it's not clear if these are available in the shorter scales.

    I can only imagine what a $10k+ custom Hill would be like, but if anyone's looking in the sub-$2k range the Player series is worth a look.

  14. #14
    No affiliation or input on this one, other than I did come across it in my search for a similar instrument. You would need to add electronics, but I don't see that as a negative as you could choose the system you wanted--And I like that it doesn't have the type of electronics with the big control panel mounted on the side of the instrument like many do. You didn't mention the nut width that you were after, but note this one has a narrower nut and radiused fingerboard ala the crossover guitars.

    Amalio Burguet 2M Spruce Top cutaway/630mm Scale/50mm nut



    – Dulcet Guitars

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    Poland
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    I use short scale clasiccal nylon strings guitar model 1020A made by Antonio Sanchez.
    It is very a very good sounding small guitar.
    Best
    Kris
    Short scale classical with cutaway and electronics?-antonio-sanchez-1020a-nr1-jpg

  16. #16
    Thanks for these excellent additional suggestions. You've given me a lot of options that were not on my radar. I also spoke with Savage Guitars and will be contacted if an instrument comes in that meets my specs.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    My luthier pal (and duet partner) Richard Prenkert, here in Sebastopol, builds cutaway classicals outfitted with Barbera transducer system saddle pickups. (Romero Lubambo has been playing Richard's cutaway classicals as his main axe for several years now; Carlos Barbosa-Lima also has been playing Richard's non-cutaway classicals for many years.) He recently completed a couple of shorter scale cutaways -- I believe around 635mm -- and was quite pleased with them. You can contact Richard through his website; or ask Richard at Savage Guitars about Prenkert guitars; I know Savage Guitars has carried several Prenkerts in the past. They're not inexpensive, but you mentioned wanting a luthier-built guitar, so ....

    Here's a video of Romero Lubambo playing one of his Prenkert guitars, this one a standard 650mm scale (Romero also uses a preamp with the saddle pickup):
    Jeff

  18. #18
    Thank you Jeff. I will look into those guitars. I miss being able to hear Romero and the Trio do Paz on Saturday afternoons on Union Sq. in NYC.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sebastopol, California
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    We caught Trio da Paz at the Healdsburg Jazz Festival on June 2, with guest artists Anat Cohen and Claudia Villela. Fantastic show (the second half of an "Art of the Trio" concert, with Fred Hersch as the first act; Fred joined the Trio with Anat and Claudia for a terrific version of Gismonti's "Loro" to finish the show). The following day, Romero and Claudia came over to Richard's house, where Romero tried out Richard's recently completed seven-string, with Claudia scatting along.
    Jeff

  20. #20
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    Mystic CT
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    That's a very good sound Romero is getting from the Prenkert - Barbero combination. As good as my RMC pickups in my guitars, and those are vey expensive. By the way, Jeff, was the 7-string a cutaway?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Sebastopol, California
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    150
    No, Ron, the 7-string was built as a standard, non-cutaway classical body. I'm sure he'd do a cutaway by request (i.e., commission).
    Jeff

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