The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I play both jazz and bossa nova. These days I rarely play my ES335 since I'd rather play my classical. I have a Cordoba GK Studio, which I am getting more and more frustrated with. I will be going to both Tokyo and Osaka in the spring and am thinking about buying a decent Japanese classical guitar. BTW, I am in NYC so there might be some good vendors right here? But how do I tell a good one? On an electric I can tell.

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  3. #2

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    Hi Richb2,
    I'm looking to upgrade to a nice classical guitar too so I'll be following the replies you get.

    Are you aware of the delcamp classical forum? Classical Guitar - Index page

    This might be a good place to do some research.

    Chris

  4. #3

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    Just like any other gear purchase, "good" can mean a lot of things. Similar to archtops, "good" classicals can run from $500 to $20,000, so I'd be interested in your budget, too.

    There are plenty of world-class American builders; are you expecting the Japanese models to be extremely inexpensive or something (i.e., are Kohno guitars that much cheaper in Japan? i don't know, so it's a serious question)?

    Marc

  5. #4
    I really can't spend more than $3000. That is really my financial limit.

  6. #5

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    Man if I buy another nylon string for gig purposes I'd probably get a Godin.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by richb2
    I really can't spend more than $3000. That is really my financial limit.
    That's a nice budget.

    Check out: Hippner Guitars

    Brune always has nice used guitars for sale: R. E. Bruné, Luthier

    It's the other side of the country, but Guitar Solo will give you an idea of what's out there: https://www.gspguitar.com/jsp2/listP...ssical_guitars

  8. #7
    Marc, I see the prices. But what am I looking for? Tone? Highs? Lows? Both? Playability? No overtones? It is too much money to not know what I am doing.

  9. #8
    I took a look at the DelCamp web page above. There was a discussion where someone mentioned that they like the Pavan. I took a look at their location in the finger lakes of NY and I will be there by coincidence the week of July 4th. So I am going to try to stop by and look at some guitars. I would consider something like this:

    PAVAN TP-20-CE (CUTAWAY ELECTRIC)

    PRICE $1675
    The Pavan TP-20-CE electric classical cutaway guitars have onboard controls using the Fishman PreFix Pro Acoustic Guitar System which has notch filter, volume control, bass and treble controls, middle and brilliance control plus a phase switch. The Fishman PreFix Pro is a very convenient electric classical guitar system for on stage use.

    I am just wondering if it will do the trick?




  10. #9

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    Rich, don't look to us for your choices in sound and playability; trust yourself. You must have a sound in mind for bossa-nova or soft, nylon-string jazz. I've played mostly nylon for 50 years, all kinds of music and gigs, from classical to flamenco to Brazilian, etc. Currently I work with African groups and different singers, playing a huge variety of styles, and I use mostly a Godin 7-string nylon Multiac. Because of the very good RMC pickup system, i find that with a good processor i can play effective rock and blues on it, and with a Roland guitar synth, I can sound like an orchestra, or get a Strat, tele or L5 sound from it. The best thing about it is that the built-in EQ system will go from round, lush bossa sound to bright, sharp flamenco sound with a little moving of the sliders. For $1500, the Multiac (6 or 7 strings) is a very good buy: easy to play, well-made, very stable and rugged.

    Having said that, the Pavan series are also excellent buys, but you may find feedback issues at more than moderate volumes.

  11. #10

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    $3000 is a good budget but it is easy to blow it on nylon boxes that don't have much resale value. I see that you are not into classical guitar for its own sake and the cork-sniffery that is rife in that world.

    Lots of great makers in the USA. First off, the pure classical guitar makers who don't break the bank: Richard Reynoso of California, Richard Prenkert of Northern California, German Vazquez Rubio of Southern California. Classical guitar dealer in NY: Richard Sayage of Savage Classical Guitars. Mikhail Robert of Robert Guitars, Canada. Jeff Sigurdson Guitars, Canada.

    If you go to 12th Fret in Toronto, you can find used Sergei De Jonge guitars at a good Canadian price. Or look for his daughter's, Joshia De Jonge, guitars.

    Kenny Hill has a series of guitars made in China which are worth checking out.

    Paul McGill made crossover nylon guitars for Earl Klugh. I am not impressed with Darren Hippner so caveat emptor.

    I must not leave out Aaron Green, Alan Carruth, Peter Oberg, Peter Tsiorba, Michael Thames, David Schramm. All good American makers worth checking out.

    https://www.savageclassical.com
    Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-19-2016 at 02:52 AM.

  12. #11

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    If it is for jazz and bossa nova, I'd consider ronjazz's recommendation of a Godin Nylon Multiac seriously. Jazz guys are looking for nylon flavour and slim nut widths. Soupçon of tonal colour really isn't at the top of the list. I admit that I have cloth ears.
    Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-19-2016 at 03:29 AM.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by richb2
    ...I have a Cordoba GK Studio, which I am getting more and more frustrated with...
    Can you give more info as to why?

  14. #13
    Thanks Destiny. I always appreciated your playing. I am just looking for something that sounds OK. I am not looking to blow big bucks. I told you that I take lessons from Lubamba sometimes and he has played my Cordoba and says that it works fine. But it is hard to tell from Romero what he really thinks. He probably thinks that the Cordoba is a good match for my skill level .

    I have another question for you while I have your attention. I know of two brazilian rythyms that I play bossa (for slower tunes) and Samba (for faster tunes). Are there any others that you know of and use?
    Last edited by richb2; 06-19-2016 at 12:06 PM.

  15. #14

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    Ron - just a question about your using your Godin with a Roland synth. First, which synth do you use, and second, do you have any problems with latency?

    I got a Roland GR-20 to use with my Godin LGX-SA, but I got kind of discouraged with the latency, especially with the bass notes and I could never get it to work properly with a USB interface to input notes in real time into Sibelius which had been my pipe dream.

    At this point I want to sell both the Godin and the Roland guitar synth and put the money towards an Eastman archtop and amplification. I got good enough at playing keyboards to use that for note input.

    I do agree with you on the issue of the Godin nylon string guitars. At the time I purchased the LGX, I was debating between that and the Grand Concert Godin SA. (Thought the LGX would be more versatile at the time for country gigs and the like - I rather regret not choosing the nylon string.)

    To stick with the topic and what is available with a budget of $3000, what about looking for Buscarino perhaps a used one?
    Last edited by targuit; 06-19-2016 at 12:42 PM.

  16. #15

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    I was born a rambling man.... an Alman Brothers lyric, I think.

    How is the weather in Spain these days, Mike?

  17. #16
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    I was born a rambling man.... an Alman Brothers lyric, I think.

    How is the weather in Spain these days, Mike?
    Getting pretty hot here, Jay!

  18. #17

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    richb2, you probably already know about Ochanomizu in Tokyo, yes?

    In case you don't, it's a cho or neighborhood in Tokyo where there are numerous guitar shops of all sorts, some world-class, some funky. Great place for a guitar player to spend a few hours window shopping!

    I don't know that you'll necessarily get a super great price on a Japanese classical. My wife is Japanese, and I've made 23 trips to the country. This is just anecdotal, but I did play a second-hand Kohno at Woodmans Guitar in Ochanomizu a few years ago that was much cheaper than I expected. About $1800, iirc. It was very well-played in, but still very charming. I still think about that one!

    Depending on your budget, Kohno/Sakurai guitars might be worth a look. I'm quite fond of them.

    But to the point about good American guitars, I do have a Kenny Hill palo escrito cutaway that was made offshore in Paracho, Mexico (before Kenny Hill moved his offshore operation to China). I like it a lot, and it was only about $800 on eBay! Sweet!

    Good luck and safe travels!

  19. #18

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    Last year I purchased a Cervantes nylon string crossover (around $2K). I like it a lot - no other way to get a really authentic Bossa sound, and great fun for chordal melody Jazz tunes in general. Took a little while to get used to, but it gets played often.

  20. #19
    Thanks Flat. No I didn't know about Ochanomizu. I have never actually been to Tokyo. I spent a year in Osaka and Kyoto about 30 years ago and this is my first time back. It is something I always said I would do but my wife never wanted to go. So I decided that it is "now or never" so I booked a fight into Tokyo for Cherry Blossom festival and plan on getting a japan rail pass. I plan to pretty much skip Kyoto and Osaka (and Kobe and Himeji) and Okinawa since I have been to those places many times (albiet not in a long time). My plan it to do Hiroshima, Tokyo, and then Sapporo, but mostly to hang out under the cherry blossoms. I will be going it alone since my wife doesn't want to go and my sister only wants to go on a guided tour (ie big $). I will definately check out Ochanomizu.

  21. #20

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    Hot in Spain? You must be kidding. I've always been taught that "the rain in Spain falls mainly in the plains." See the value of a good education?

    On the other hand, when it is hot, it does suggest that women will wear sparser clothing and thus for every negative there is a distinct positive. I love the summer....

  22. #21
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    Hot in Spain? You must be kidding. I've always been taught that "the rain in Spain falls mainly in the plains." See the value of a good education?

    On the other hand, when it is hot, it does suggest that women will wear sparser clothing and thus for every negative there is a distinct positive. I love the summer....

  23. #22

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    I have little issue with latency with the Godin, but I spent some time tweaking it in the Roland GR55, and I am still tweaking for balance and tone. I find that 3 or 4 sounds really tweaked to the max is all I need for what I'm trying to achieve, but I have another 3 or 4 that I use occasionally for commercial work. The Godin 7-string has the latest RMC system, which is nothing less than awesome. I am back on Federal Hill on Friday nights for the summer, and have added the synth, and we are having a ball.

    Finding a Buscarino for $3000 would be a miracle. I would highly recommend finding a really nice flamenco negra (rosewood sides and back) for $2000 and having an RMC system installed for another $750-1000. I have used the RMC system in about 6 different guitars now, and can find no fault with it, if installed well, whether you bother with a synth or not. The buyers from Fender were looking at the Guild factory in Westerly and stopped in to one of my gigs where I was playing a $700 flamenco guitar with an RMC system through a Bose L1 using a Zoom A2 processor, and all 6 of them were entirely freaked out at how good it sounded. Over the years, I have found that a classical guitar with a rich, resonant sound is very difficult to amplify, while an inexpensive flamenco guitar with a bright, snappy sound is much easier to control, especially with the RMC system.

  24. #23

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    I hope to see you this summer on Federal Hill, Ron!

    That is an interesting notion about the flamenco guitar and I agree about the issue of very resonant versus a sharper snappy sounding guitar in terms of amplification and also recording unless you are playing solo classical guitar.

    Gee, Mike - those shots of the beach resorts look gorgeous, but I was kind of hoping for the Brazilian style shots of impossibly beautiful women in postage stamp tangas strolling on the beach. They must all have gone to see you play!

  25. #24

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    I was told by one of Segovia's guitar builder's sons that the best were German.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by richb2
    I play both jazz and bossa nova. These days I rarely play my ES335 since I'd rather play my classical. I have a Cordoba GK Studio, which I am getting more and more frustrated with. I will be going to both Tokyo and Osaka in the spring and am thinking about buying a decent Japanese classical guitar. BTW, I am in NYC so there might be some good vendors right here? But how do I tell a good one? On an electric I can tell.
    Simple answer = listen to it.