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  1. #1

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    I really want to become better at Jazz guitar playing. In many aspects I am still a beginner. Do you think that learning classical technique and such will hinder my Jazz learning.

    I've heard from professors that when classical musicians take jazz courses they seem very lost. I've even heard "edgier" professors outright mock the idea of classical theoretical instruction. On the other hand I've also heard classically trained professors refer to jazz as being a "new" phenomena since it has only been around for 80 years compared to the classical history of the guitar. Almost as if they dismiss it as being like a folk style.

    I can respect the idea that learning other types of music is good, but where do you draw the line and get focused on a specific style that you want to learn?

    So, what are your thoughts on learning classical guitar and jazz guitar at the same time? Right now I tend to think that classical studies would only be so helpful because jazz is such a specific art form.

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  3. #2

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    Anything that makes you a better guitar player will contribute to you being a better jazz guitar player. Don't take my word for it, listen to Lenny Breau!

  4. #3

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    For what it's worth, I've spent most of the last couple of years doing classical guitar only. I only just recently got into the jazz guitar scene.

    My opinion is, "it depends". What are your goals as a guitarist? I do know that the classical stuff has helped me a lot in being able to use my right hand fluently - something which is important if you're going to be doing a lot of fingerstyle or chord-melody playing. The focus on technique in classical is second to none, assuming you have a competent teacher. it will definitely make you a better player.

    On the other hand, classical guitar does next to nothing for improvisation. I know many good classical guitarists who would be completely lost if it came down to making up a simple melody line on the spot. And most classical guitarists are also less knowledgeable about theory than their jazz counterparts. Jazz is definitely a thinking man's game, whereas you can almost treat classical as pure rote.

    What I do know is that the classical guitar world is filled with amazingly beautiful pieces. Some of my favorites:







    Personally, I would say the two areas of study are almost perpendicular, at least at my level of accomplishment. I'm not currently actively playing the classical guitar at this point, but if I were, my practice sessions would be isolated from one another. One of my old instructors told me that at some point, it all just becomes playing the guitar, but I'm certainly not there yet!

  5. #4

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    P90,

    I first started guitar learning Classical guitar for the first 2 years of my learning Classical is pretty much all I learned. Classical Guitar really helped with my sight reading abilities.

    Like Banskia said, anything that will help YOU in learing guitar is positive.

    Me personally I love Classical guitar and sitll play it all the time, lately I've been putting most of my focus towards Jazz and Blues theory but I'm very grateful that I learned Classical guitar.

    Hope my insight helps you a little bit!

    Good luck and Practice hard man. That's what it all boils down too.

    Thanks,
    Jeff

  6. #5

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    I take it you are thinking about 'formal' classical guitar study. Well, give it a go and see how you like it!

    I just came in to make a point about the classical guitar itself - it is a really amazing instrument. Away from classical music, it can become mean and dirty, with all manner of sonic effects possible. It can be used to do a percussion backing track. You can make it scream.
    There really doesn't seem to be any limitation on the possibilities.

  7. #6
    Thank you everyones comments have been very insightful. I can see how classical training or anything that will make you better on guitar is a good thing. I really like listening to Pat Martino, Miles Davis, Wes Montgomery, and anyone else who has made great music. I don't see too much classical influence in their playing. I really like the fact that jazz is a thinking mans game. And improv!!! I love improv and the whole concept of improvisation.

    I wasn't really planning on doing too much fingerstyle playing. Then again I never really considered it. I always play with a pick.

    I noticed that a classical guitar neck is much wider than my electrics, and I was wondering if the changes in neck width would hinder aspects of my playing.

    Also, I was thinking that I really enjoy getting tones out of an amp, and the idea of strictly acoustic playing doesn't interest me as much.

    Thanks again to everyone for sharing your thoughts.

  8. #7

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    Hi all

    As both a classical and jazz player I'd say study both because they help each other. My chord melody playing wouldn't be anywhere near what it is if I hadn't learnt classical guitar technique and because of learning jazz I think when I play so I know what to expect in the next bar of a classical piece making sight reading pieces a lot easier. In terms of studying the theory of the two styles, they're basically the same thing but delivered differently. Look at a Bach piece and it'll be littered with 2-5-1 movement and an aug6 is basically the same as a b5 sub. It can't be a bad thing to get more practice at making these movements seems as they make up most standards.

  9. #8

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    You would be surprised at how much variation there is in the tones possible from a classical guitar. A well made classical is really a beautiful thing - they just sing (almost by themselves) and although subtle, once you tune into it, it's amazing at the different sounds that come out of them.

    Plus, you will be exposed to a whole slew of composers who created some of the most beautiful pieces you can imagine: Dowland, Milan, Purcell, Bach, Carcassi, Giuliani, Barrios, Lauro, Brouwer...the list is immense. You practically owe it to yourself to listen to this stuff!

    As for the neck width, there is quite a difference, and it takes a little getting used to. The strings are farther apart in order to allow you to select individual notes with your right hand more easily - you don't do much strumming on a classical. Going back to a "regular" guitar from a classical feels a bit cramped.

    Basically, classical guitar rules! And jazz guitar rules! They are both great. Depends on how much time you have. :-)

  10. #9
    FatJeff: I forgot to mention that I watched the videos you posted and they are very beautiful. I also checked out your youtube channel and your playing is very good.

    Thanks for all your input. I'm still trying to mentally comprehend the "perpendicularness" of the two.

  11. #10

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    Unless things have changed since I was in college, Both classical and jazz musicians were required to take the same theory and ear training courses for four semesters.

    After that, the classical people went on to things like form and analysis and the jazz people went on to other things like improv I etc.

    Even the piano class was the same for two semesters. Then the jazz majors went to jazz piano I.

    The two are not mutually exclusive nor is one better or more difficult than the other and there's no reason why you can't learn both at the same time. You just have to remember that between the two, most of the 'rules' are the same. You just have to remember the differences .

  12. #11

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    Jazz guitarist Bucky Pizzarelli believes in the study of classical guitar.

    In the May issue of Just Jazz Guitar, there is an interesting interview with Lee Ritenour about this subject. Great article.

  13. #12

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    I play both, daily. I now use a hybrid Ibanez nylon that is OK for both. I've let my classical technique slide a little but still play a coupe classical pieces, a couple jazz pieces, a couple blues pieces, etc.... each time I practice.

    It's amazing how little you learn about the guitar and improvising etc... in classical though. I played seriously for years and have learned more playing ii-V-I's and jazz blues than I ever did before.

    Playing classical is basically just reading and interpreting.

    Jazz is the WHOLE experience.

  14. #13

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    take a look at this thread, it might help you.

    https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/other...classical.html

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dookychase
    Jazz guitarist Bucky Pizzarelli believes in the study of classical guitar.

    In the May issue of Just Jazz Guitar, there is an interesting interview with Lee Ritenour about this subject. Great article.
    I need to start listening to some of his stuff. I like his 7 string guitar. I'm going to try to find that article. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor
    I play both, daily. I now use a hybrid Ibanez nylon that is OK for both. I've let my classical technique slide a little but still play a coupe classical pieces, a couple jazz pieces, a couple blues pieces, etc.... each time I practice.

    It's amazing how little you learn about the guitar and improvising etc... in classical though. I played seriously for years and have learned more playing ii-V-I's and jazz blues than I ever did before.

    Playing classical is basically just reading and interpreting.

    Jazz is the WHOLE experience.
    That's the way I feel about it.

    I would rather play some blues pieces and jazz pieces. Maybe I need to look harder for classical pieces though.

    I was thinking that the classical guitar is definately useful for certain situations and it might be good to look into a hybrid type.

    Quote Originally Posted by fast1
    take a look at this thread, it might help you.

    https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/other...classical.html
    I just read whole thread and it was good read thank you.

  16. #15

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    this is a tough one for me to answer...there's nothing bad about learning classical--only good things can happen to you tecnique wise...but is that what you want? if you really want to learn jazz, you gotta play jazz....all the technique in the world won't get you thru the changes of giant steps...

    if your overall goal is to be a well rounded player, classical is great. if you want to cut heads, hook up with some jazz cats who are better than you and let them kick your ass around for a few years. you'll learn, for sure.

  17. #16

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    As far as playing the guitar goes you could do a lot worse than learning classical guitar. Classical musicians tend to have really good chops. It will help your reading and picking enormously. I'm all for jazz players learning classical.

    As for classical theory, I would stick to jazz theory because it is more comprehensive. Classical theory only uses the scales that were around in its day whereas jazz theory uses all the latest sounding scales as well as the old ones.

  18. #17

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    I played classical guitar at college in the 1970's. The best piece of advice my prof gave me was to take the study #2 from Carcassi 25 and change your right hand fingerings ie play as written then P-I-M-A-M-I, then P-A-M-A-M-I, then P-I-M-I-A-I-M-I, then P-A-M-I tremolo. You won't beleve how the study sounds different and yet the same. Of course, when you change the right hand fingering you can drop the repeated notes at the end of each phrase. Relax after each stroke and you can never practice too slow, that is what practice is for.

    Also sight read 4X more than you think you can.

    Give it a try. Listen to some Earl Klugh too !!

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by notchet
    I played classical guitar at college in the 1970's. The best piece of advice my prof gave me was to take the study #2 from Carcassi 25 and change your right hand fingerings ie play as written then P-I-M-A-M-I, then P-A-M-A-M-I, then P-I-M-I-A-I-M-I, then P-A-M-I tremolo. You won't beleve how the study sounds different and yet the same. Of course, when you change the right hand fingering you can drop the repeated notes at the end of each phrase. Relax after each stroke and you can never practice too slow, that is what practice is for.

    Also sight read 4X more than you think you can.

    Give it a try. Listen to some Earl Klugh too !!
    I was going to mention Earl Klugh - who's playing is Jazz/Classical hybrid. I've learned a few of his Fingerstyle pieces over the years, and they are very difficult - and it took me a long time to play them fluently. Personally, I'm all for alternating the jazz and classical. If you want to play solo pieces like Joe Pass and Earl Klugh, you have to jump on the classical wagon, period. Nothing will perfect your right hand like classical. Also, nothing is as haunting, will soothe your soul, and bring tears to your eyes like playing a classical piece. Absolutely beautiful beyond words. I also disagree with the posters comment about classical not doing anything to help with improvisation. I learned more about intervals and harmony with classical than with anything else. When one of the jazz greats is soloing, and you learn and break down some of their lines, if you notice, bebop runs are classical-style melodies playing over rapid changes. They're the SAME THING played in a different context. That's one of the "secrets" that helped me to understand the bebop lines from the greats. My routine is....when I feel I've hit a plateau, or I'm getting a little bored and stale, it's time to learn a new classical piece. It's like taking a vacation to reward my hard work and study in jazz. It is still hardcore practice in a different way, but it doesn't feel like practice because it is so rewarding very quickly. I think I'm going to try and tackle Hector Villa-Lobos - Prelude no.2. It's a beast, but even the attempt will improve my playing, plus it'll be a blast. Nothing more fun than learning a new classical piece. Only problem is that you forget the previous pieces you've learned if you don't continue to play them - which happens to me all the time. But my right hand dexterity and technique grows and improves regardless.

  20. #19

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    I studied classical some and it was great for right hand technique, but I also took and played the classical studies with pick and fingers on my electrics to get as much out of the material as possible. After that I think the advantage for a Jazz player is exposure to different musical ideas to expand the ear.

  21. #20

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    Hey man,

    You should go for it. I use to study classical guitar. I decided to stop practicing it a few years ago. It took too much time away from the electric guitar. I do think is a good idea to learn the basics technique and dynamic control. Go for it.

    -a

  22. #21

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    I play classical guitar (but only 50 tunes)...

    Charlie Byrd style jazz on my classical guitar...

    Chet Atkins style on my archtop and classical guitar...

    Classical guitar for the discipline ...to be sure...

    It's like learning to play the guitar first...then learn the songs...

    time on the instrument...

  23. #22

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    I would think that, if the jazz-related goals of studying classical guitar are mostly for technique, why not just study the technical side and apply what you can to jazz? Learn about the left hand, the right hand, learn some pieces as technical studies, but start applying it to things that are stylistically jazz rather than going off in a direction that will just tangentially assist your jazz playing.

    However, this other issue comes up, what kind of musician do you want to be? And what is jazz right now? Is jazz only playing things that sound like Miles, Wes, etc? Do you want to be someone who just makes a strange echo of something that was popular sixty years ago, or do you want to be your own musician? What does genre really matter?

    I'm glad that in my guitar life I've been interested in different styles over the years and that's all added up to make my playing what it is. We can name many guitarists that obviously have other influences in their playing...first ones come to mind Tim Miller, Julian Lage, Nelson Veras, Lenny Breau, Metheny...all of these 'monster' players are a result of their own personal histories and influences and there obviously is plenty of stuff within them besides Miles and Wes. And you know why these are names we know? Because in addition to having such a high level of skill and musicality, they all do something unique...

    Maybe my point is that I think you shouldn't study classical guitar very seriously to 'help your jazz playing.' I think you should study classical guitar seriously if you want to study classical guitar seriously, and how it aids your improvisation and 'personal voice'...well, we'll see.

    A lot of good discussion in that other thread.

  24. #23

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    I trained in classical guitar for four years or so from the age of around twelve years old and continued to work on classical music as I explored other forms including jazz and country rock through the years. These days I focus more on jazz stylistically because it is harmonically so advanced and improvisation is freedom. I think there is a huge advantage to studying classical guitar in terms of technical foundation, reading standard notation, and musical education via studying composers like JS Bach.

    But I realized even as a teen that I needed to develop my ears which is something that not every classical player is concerned with. The freedom of jazz is incomparable. But a classical foundation is a nice place to start on the journey of liberation. These days I much prefer to play along with Bill Evans to memorizing a lengthy classical piece, but ultimately that is a personal choice.

  25. #24

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    @ the OP: only you can decide what you want to do. As they say, classical pieces, being actually composed, are far more sophisticated than your typical jazz chord solo. Also, as they say, playing jazz requires much more knowledge, will teach you much more about music, and gives you much more freedom of self-expression.

    The only thing I would add, is that if you are any kind of decent player, then it is not that hard to learn to play some classical pieces pretty well. In a single summer of maybe 10 lessons, I probably learned five pieces. Most members of this forum, given a couple of months to grow their nails, could learn simple pieces in a week or two. This was one of the first ones my teacher gave me. Not too hard and sounds great:



    Of course, if you want to play Variations on a Theme by Mozart, that will take a fair bit longer.

  26. #25

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    I did two years classical guitar with a pro teacher about 25 yrs ago and have never regretted it as its all about discipline. Sight reading really improves and you play whats in front of you and as written.

  27. #26

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    That Lauro piece is nice.

    Plenty of lovely classical pieces accessible even to a jazz styling - Ravel's Pavane Pour Un Enfante Defunte, eg, is a great solo piece which I occasionally blaspheme by playing with a bit of swing. Villa Lobos' Preludes and some of Etudes, like No. 7, are very cool, too. As a devotee of Julian Bream, I learned a few pieces off his landmark Twentieth Century Guitar album by Benjamin Britten, Frank Martin, and Reginald Smith Brindle. Never did master the fabulous Henze pieces, Drei Tentos. Toru Takemitsu's All in Twilight is neat, too.

    Classical guitar is a beautiful thing, but the one great limitation is - ya gotta play the notes as written, for the most part. I find it harder today to memorize music than I did in my twenties and thirties.

  28. #27

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    Right now, I'm working on classical guitar pieces. from the Charles Duncan book.

    I've grown my nails out, put the archie on the back burner, and trot out my beat up nylon--it's a Giannini thin line. It had it's headstock and binding smashed by a frind of mine and then repaired.

    I am not primarily thinking how it will help my jazz playing But that's in the background.

    Even simple pieces sound great--the repertoire is wonderful; a well-played classical guitar piece sounds beautiful. There's nothing like it in terms of sonority and lyricism.

    No whammy bar, no pedals, no MIDI, no amp, no gain, no P90 vs. HB, none of that.

    But an incredible variety of sounds and possibilities.

    As my teacher said, you have to really learn your ascending and descending slurs. Those are the vowels of music.

    I love learning these pieces. The instrument and the musical tradition are breathtaking in their beauty.

  29. #28

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    If you don't love playing classical guitar, then don't play it just to help with your jazz. You can work on technique, etc just as well working on jazz tunes if that's what you like. Playing a classical tune doesn't help you play with good technique. Working on good technique whatever you are playing is what helps you play with good technique.

  30. #29

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    I studied classical guitar for a few years in college but got tired of having to always file my nails to perfection using two different grades of sandpaper, etc. It was just a little too persnickety for my taste. But if you are drawn compulsively to the sound of classical guitar, then you do what you gotta do. It just wasn't me.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaco
    I studied classical guitar for a few years in college but got tired of having to always file my nails to perfection using two different grades of sandpaper, etc. It was just a little too persnickety for my taste. But if you are drawn compulsively to the sound of classical guitar, then you do what you gotta do. It just wasn't me.
    Same issue here. I think classical guitar might be the most beautiful sounding instrument, up there with cello. But the nails?

    I can't deal with worrying about breaking a nail while I'm playing basketball, or washing dishes, or literally every other activity on the planet. Not worth the trade off.

  32. #31

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    If the OP is still out there, I wonder what his decision was, since the original thread was 4 years ago.

    Anyway, I also studied classical about 3 years in college and had fun with it, but decided not to pursue it. Still own the nylon string and take it out once in a great while. The discussion of the nail thing reminds me of a time I was at a Scott Tenant master class at Skidmore College in the late 90s. Tenant was unhappy with the state of the student's nails, and was working on them with a nail file for the kid, just as a campus tour comes into the auditorium. A bunch of prospective students and their parents being shown around and here's some music major getting a manicure on stage.

    Here is a clip featuring Laurindo Almeida w/ MJQ playing One Note Samba. Sort of an example of classical and jazz intersecting. After the pretentious introduction by the announcer, Laurindo plays a superb intro. Sounds like a set piece, not improvised, but with impeccable technique, arrangement and interpretation. He then plays more with the band, followed by great solos by Bags and the typically understated John Lewis.


  33. #32

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    P90 I think it's good to expose yourself to the classical guitar tradition which is pretty well established in terms of technique etc. the repetore is extensive and amazing and beautiful. However as Mr. B said so clearly jazz guitar will require a lot of pure single minded focus especially if you are trying to build your jazz foundation by imitating one of or several of the giants of Jazz Guitar. For me I took classical lessons early in my development then got into Hendrix, and Blues then got really deep into jazz and now I'm back with practicing classical really just learning way over my head difficult Bach Lute Suite pieces that are so beautiful I just get addicted to trying to play them correct. As long as you are enjoying the journey keep going without fear it all adds up in the end to being more well rounded musician and guitarist.

  34. #33

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    Almeida was a complete player - and, to my knowledge, was not classically trained.
    Last edited by coolvinny; 06-20-2013 at 04:28 PM. Reason: typo

  35. #34

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    Listen to Tuck Andress to see/hear what could happen when Classical and Jazz comes together in a melting pot...

  36. #35

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    Eddy B - Hey. Which Bach Lute Suite or suites do you work on?

    I love Bach's works for lute. Besides Julian Bream and John Williams, one of my favorite Bach interpreters is Paul Galbraith. His CD Bach - The Sonatas and Partitas is thought provokingly beautiful.

  37. #36

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    Hey Targuit thanks for the Paul Galbraith tip. I'm working on the Preludes to BWV 999,997,Sarabande and Bourre, Cello SuiteNo. 4(stanley yates edition highly recomended),Cantata no 140(Sleepers Awake), Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring. I'm just playing through these pieces as best I can, trying to absorb the ability of creating counterpoint, on the guitar and then trying to transfer that to standards like Alone Together, Stella, All the Things You Are etc... I would never call myself a classical guitarist by any stretch. But it is incredibly satisfying and rewarding to try!

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carsonsmith
    I'd definitely like to learn classical guitar..i have always had a thing for this form..i guess no one was out there to teach me...let's see how far this community will be of help..
    save yourself a lot of wasted time and needless grief and take lessons from a QUALIFIED instructor.

    meanwhile...

    Classical Guitar ? View forum - Classical Guitar Classes

    and

    Classical Guitar ? View forum - On-line classical guitar lessons

  39. #38

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    I would say get a qualified teacher too. My teacher teaches both jazz and classical, and I've just started taking strictly classical lessons from him. He has me on a regular practice exercise, where I work on technical stuff first, then music/songs/pieces. Here's stuff only a good teacher can tell you:

    *I've discovered, in short order, that, that my descending slurs are HORRIBLE. It's been easier to mask with an electric guitar and amp. I've found that I've been, instead of properly pulling with force down to the string below, I've been lifting the top note while not anchoring the bottom note properly without bending. Also, I've been "rushing" to the 2nd note of a descending slur. Even-steven, mofos, even-steven. That's the goal.

    *I play the thumb way too much with the flesh. It should be with the nails. He has me practicing first position chromatic scale patterns using the thumb only.

    *Playing two notes simultaneously, one with the thumb, and the other with the i,m, or a, is easy enough. However, playing two notes simultaneously with the thumb being played tirando while the i,m, or a is played apoyando, well, that's not so easy for me.


    What have I learned in a few short weeks? Right hand development is critical. Practically all musical problems are right hand problems. I start my technical practice with a small exercise book my teacher gave me by Miguel Abloniz: "50 Arpeggi for the right Right Hand".


    So, yeah, get a qualified teacher.

  40. #39

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    I play and teach both, but i don't believe in the existence of 2 kind of guitar.
    What we call "classical" guitar means classical, romantic, modern, contemporary, ancient, barocca, renaissance guitar.

    Isn't it just a matter of languages (and of course of techniques)?

    Why pianist don't have such divisions? Their instruments had great evolution from "spinetta" (english ancient keyboard, don't know english word) to piano, techniques too.

    I'm very interested in this thread because in Italy we have a strong and in my opinion stupid division between jazz (and rock/pop) and classical guitar.

    ps. short nails never break!
    Last edited by BeBopBeCool; 06-29-2013 at 02:50 AM.

  41. #40

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    Gippo, I agree with you. The divisions between styles are artificial, for the most part, and, in jazz, all types of guitars are used. While classical isw almost always played on the nylon-string, there are several iterations, up to 11 strings, for instance, and some classical pieces can be played very effectively on the archtop or electric, as both Johnny Smith and Ted Greene proved. I often perform concerts with a mix of classical, flamenco, Brazilian and jazz pieces, and I find them very well-received in general.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    Gippo, I agree with you. The divisions between styles are artificial, for the most part, and, in jazz, all types of guitars are used. While classical isw almost always played on the nylon-string, there are several iterations, up to 11 strings, for instance, and some classical pieces can be played very effectively on the archtop or electric, as both Johnny Smith and Ted Greene proved. I often perform concerts with a mix of classical, flamenco, Brazilian and jazz pieces, and I find them very well-received in general.
    Consider that classical guitarist play most of the repertoire with "wrong" instrument. Classical guitar as we know was created in the last part of 1800: everything written before that date should be played with another instrument: 800 guitar, lute, baroque lute, vihuela and so on.

  43. #42

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    Randalljazz +1.I did this twentyfive years ago for two years and never regretted it.It teaches you to sight read whats in front of you and play as written.

  44. #43

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    Yes it's good for music reading, developing fingerstyle technique and playing beautiful "complete" sounding pieces. Like a piano player. (hearing someone playing this stuff when I was waiting for my guitar lesson long ago got me into it)

    But, most "classical guitarists" do not learn how to improvise. I'd say the Brazilian players might be an exception though, and their music tends to have more jazzy sounding elements. I really like the clips of Paulinho Nogiera I saw on youtube, and there's many others worth checking out!

  45. #44

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    I have been playing classical guitar for more than 40 years. Have had different teachers and still love the instrument. But it is true that with classical guitar you don't learn to improvise, chords, etc. I am starting now playing jazz guitar which opens a whole new world. It feels like I need to learn about music and theory again. I have always admired jazz guitar players, but also met many jazz guitar players who admired classical guitarists. I once had a nice chat with Kenny Burrell, and when he heard I play classical guitar he wanted to know everything about it. It is very nice to observe this mutual respect from jazz and classical guitarists. Each has its own merits and difficulties. What makes classical guitar so difficult is that you can hear every mistake. Btw those who like Bach's transcriptions for guitar should also check, next to Paul Galbraith, Frank Bungarten and Manuel Barrueco

  46. #45

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    Jazz musicians tend to have really good chops, (improvising chops ) without having learnt to play classical. There's nothing wrong with learning anything musical It's the time factor.... years of practice to become proficient at either,and if you have a day job as well, you wouldn't have time for anything else in life.. I think one discipline is enough for anyone to cope with....

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevus
    I have been playing classical guitar for more than 40 years. Have had different teachers and still love the instrument. But it is true that with classical guitar you don't learn to improvise, chords, etc. I am starting now playing jazz guitar which opens a whole new world. It feels like I need to learn about music and theory again. I have always admired jazz guitar players, but also met many jazz guitar players who admired classical guitarists. I once had a nice chat with Kenny Burrell, and when he heard I play classical guitar he wanted to know everything about it. It is very nice to observe this mutual respect from jazz and classical guitarists. Each has its own merits and difficulties. What makes classical guitar so difficult is that you can hear every mistake. Btw those who like Bach's transcriptions for guitar should also check, next to Paul Galbraith, Frank Bungarten and Manuel Barrueco
    Kenny Burrell studied with a guy who was a friend of my teacher named Joe Fava. Mr. Fava taught both jazz and classical , and in addition to Kenny, Scott Tennant and Earl Klugh were among his most distinguished students.

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ
    I would say get a qualified teacher too. My teacher teaches both jazz and classical, and I've just started taking strictly classical lessons from him. He has me on a regular practice exercise, where I work on technical stuff first, then music/songs/pieces. Here's stuff only a good teacher can tell you:

    *I've discovered, in short order, that, that my descending slurs are HORRIBLE. It's been easier to mask with an electric guitar and amp. I've found that I've been, instead of properly pulling with force down to the string below, I've been lifting the top note while not anchoring the bottom note properly without bending. Also, I've been "rushing" to the 2nd note of a descending slur. Even-steven, mofos, even-steven. That's the goal.

    *I play the thumb way too much with the flesh. It should be with the nails. He has me practicing first position chromatic scale patterns using the thumb only.

    *Playing two notes simultaneously, one with the thumb, and the other with the i,m, or a, is easy enough. However, playing two notes simultaneously with the thumb being played tirando while the i,m, or a is played apoyando, well, that's not so easy for me.


    What have I learned in a few short weeks? Right hand development is critical. Practically all musical problems are right hand problems. I start my technical practice with a small exercise book my teacher gave me by Miguel Abloniz: "50 Arpeggi for the right Right Hand".


    So, yeah, get a qualified teacher.
    +100

    This is exacty the kind of thing that can only be seriously addressed by regular one-to-one in-the-same-room tuition in my experience.

    Classical vs jazz guitar - just listen to Adam Rogers play nylon string!

  49. #48

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    Here's what Barry Harris has to say about it....

  50. #49

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    Barry Harris to me is a kind of grandfatherly genius of the first order. Scary brilliant. The music just flows out of his mind into the ether. To have the chance to study with him would have been priceless.

    He is quite correct about at least some classical players, though I'm not sure about those at the highest rungs of musical achievement. When I studied with a fine classical teacher in my early adolescent years, I was not instructed particularly in any serious musical theory. But when I started deciphering Beatles tunes, James Taylor, and other popular composers, I realized the deficit and remedied the situation. And I began to analyze what I was playing from that point of view. Actually, not formally analyze so much as hear it in in that perspective.

    Still for me it's about the ear. When you listen to Barry Harris play and scat along with his playing, you realize how it just flows for him. I just wish I had his fluid piano technique as well.

  51. #50

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    not any classical players i've ever known. jazz and pop musicians like to pass around that canard, to feel a little bit superior...pathetic, really...