The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    That Lauro piece is nice.

    Plenty of lovely classical pieces accessible even to a jazz styling - Ravel's Pavane Pour Un Enfante Defunte, eg, is a great solo piece which I occasionally blaspheme by playing with a bit of swing. Villa Lobos' Preludes and some of Etudes, like No. 7, are very cool, too. As a devotee of Julian Bream, I learned a few pieces off his landmark Twentieth Century Guitar album by Benjamin Britten, Frank Martin, and Reginald Smith Brindle. Never did master the fabulous Henze pieces, Drei Tentos. Toru Takemitsu's All in Twilight is neat, too.

    Classical guitar is a beautiful thing, but the one great limitation is - ya gotta play the notes as written, for the most part. I find it harder today to memorize music than I did in my twenties and thirties.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Right now, I'm working on classical guitar pieces. from the Charles Duncan book.

    I've grown my nails out, put the archie on the back burner, and trot out my beat up nylon--it's a Giannini thin line. It had it's headstock and binding smashed by a frind of mine and then repaired.

    I am not primarily thinking how it will help my jazz playing But that's in the background.

    Even simple pieces sound great--the repertoire is wonderful; a well-played classical guitar piece sounds beautiful. There's nothing like it in terms of sonority and lyricism.

    No whammy bar, no pedals, no MIDI, no amp, no gain, no P90 vs. HB, none of that.

    But an incredible variety of sounds and possibilities.

    As my teacher said, you have to really learn your ascending and descending slurs. Those are the vowels of music.

    I love learning these pieces. The instrument and the musical tradition are breathtaking in their beauty.

  4. #28

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    If you don't love playing classical guitar, then don't play it just to help with your jazz. You can work on technique, etc just as well working on jazz tunes if that's what you like. Playing a classical tune doesn't help you play with good technique. Working on good technique whatever you are playing is what helps you play with good technique.

  5. #29

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    I studied classical guitar for a few years in college but got tired of having to always file my nails to perfection using two different grades of sandpaper, etc. It was just a little too persnickety for my taste. But if you are drawn compulsively to the sound of classical guitar, then you do what you gotta do. It just wasn't me.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaco
    I studied classical guitar for a few years in college but got tired of having to always file my nails to perfection using two different grades of sandpaper, etc. It was just a little too persnickety for my taste. But if you are drawn compulsively to the sound of classical guitar, then you do what you gotta do. It just wasn't me.
    Same issue here. I think classical guitar might be the most beautiful sounding instrument, up there with cello. But the nails?

    I can't deal with worrying about breaking a nail while I'm playing basketball, or washing dishes, or literally every other activity on the planet. Not worth the trade off.

  7. #31

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    If the OP is still out there, I wonder what his decision was, since the original thread was 4 years ago.

    Anyway, I also studied classical about 3 years in college and had fun with it, but decided not to pursue it. Still own the nylon string and take it out once in a great while. The discussion of the nail thing reminds me of a time I was at a Scott Tenant master class at Skidmore College in the late 90s. Tenant was unhappy with the state of the student's nails, and was working on them with a nail file for the kid, just as a campus tour comes into the auditorium. A bunch of prospective students and their parents being shown around and here's some music major getting a manicure on stage.

    Here is a clip featuring Laurindo Almeida w/ MJQ playing One Note Samba. Sort of an example of classical and jazz intersecting. After the pretentious introduction by the announcer, Laurindo plays a superb intro. Sounds like a set piece, not improvised, but with impeccable technique, arrangement and interpretation. He then plays more with the band, followed by great solos by Bags and the typically understated John Lewis.


  8. #32

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    P90 I think it's good to expose yourself to the classical guitar tradition which is pretty well established in terms of technique etc. the repetore is extensive and amazing and beautiful. However as Mr. B said so clearly jazz guitar will require a lot of pure single minded focus especially if you are trying to build your jazz foundation by imitating one of or several of the giants of Jazz Guitar. For me I took classical lessons early in my development then got into Hendrix, and Blues then got really deep into jazz and now I'm back with practicing classical really just learning way over my head difficult Bach Lute Suite pieces that are so beautiful I just get addicted to trying to play them correct. As long as you are enjoying the journey keep going without fear it all adds up in the end to being more well rounded musician and guitarist.

  9. #33

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    Almeida was a complete player - and, to my knowledge, was not classically trained.
    Last edited by coolvinny; 06-20-2013 at 04:28 PM. Reason: typo

  10. #34

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    Listen to Tuck Andress to see/hear what could happen when Classical and Jazz comes together in a melting pot...

  11. #35

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    Eddy B - Hey. Which Bach Lute Suite or suites do you work on?

    I love Bach's works for lute. Besides Julian Bream and John Williams, one of my favorite Bach interpreters is Paul Galbraith. His CD Bach - The Sonatas and Partitas is thought provokingly beautiful.

  12. #36

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    Hey Targuit thanks for the Paul Galbraith tip. I'm working on the Preludes to BWV 999,997,Sarabande and Bourre, Cello SuiteNo. 4(stanley yates edition highly recomended),Cantata no 140(Sleepers Awake), Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring. I'm just playing through these pieces as best I can, trying to absorb the ability of creating counterpoint, on the guitar and then trying to transfer that to standards like Alone Together, Stella, All the Things You Are etc... I would never call myself a classical guitarist by any stretch. But it is incredibly satisfying and rewarding to try!

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carsonsmith
    I'd definitely like to learn classical guitar..i have always had a thing for this form..i guess no one was out there to teach me...let's see how far this community will be of help..
    save yourself a lot of wasted time and needless grief and take lessons from a QUALIFIED instructor.

    meanwhile...

    Classical Guitar ? View forum - Classical Guitar Classes

    and

    Classical Guitar ? View forum - On-line classical guitar lessons

  14. #38

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    I would say get a qualified teacher too. My teacher teaches both jazz and classical, and I've just started taking strictly classical lessons from him. He has me on a regular practice exercise, where I work on technical stuff first, then music/songs/pieces. Here's stuff only a good teacher can tell you:

    *I've discovered, in short order, that, that my descending slurs are HORRIBLE. It's been easier to mask with an electric guitar and amp. I've found that I've been, instead of properly pulling with force down to the string below, I've been lifting the top note while not anchoring the bottom note properly without bending. Also, I've been "rushing" to the 2nd note of a descending slur. Even-steven, mofos, even-steven. That's the goal.

    *I play the thumb way too much with the flesh. It should be with the nails. He has me practicing first position chromatic scale patterns using the thumb only.

    *Playing two notes simultaneously, one with the thumb, and the other with the i,m, or a, is easy enough. However, playing two notes simultaneously with the thumb being played tirando while the i,m, or a is played apoyando, well, that's not so easy for me.


    What have I learned in a few short weeks? Right hand development is critical. Practically all musical problems are right hand problems. I start my technical practice with a small exercise book my teacher gave me by Miguel Abloniz: "50 Arpeggi for the right Right Hand".


    So, yeah, get a qualified teacher.

  15. #39

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    I play and teach both, but i don't believe in the existence of 2 kind of guitar.
    What we call "classical" guitar means classical, romantic, modern, contemporary, ancient, barocca, renaissance guitar.

    Isn't it just a matter of languages (and of course of techniques)?

    Why pianist don't have such divisions? Their instruments had great evolution from "spinetta" (english ancient keyboard, don't know english word) to piano, techniques too.

    I'm very interested in this thread because in Italy we have a strong and in my opinion stupid division between jazz (and rock/pop) and classical guitar.

    ps. short nails never break!
    Last edited by BeBopBeCool; 06-29-2013 at 02:50 AM.

  16. #40

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    Gippo, I agree with you. The divisions between styles are artificial, for the most part, and, in jazz, all types of guitars are used. While classical isw almost always played on the nylon-string, there are several iterations, up to 11 strings, for instance, and some classical pieces can be played very effectively on the archtop or electric, as both Johnny Smith and Ted Greene proved. I often perform concerts with a mix of classical, flamenco, Brazilian and jazz pieces, and I find them very well-received in general.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    Gippo, I agree with you. The divisions between styles are artificial, for the most part, and, in jazz, all types of guitars are used. While classical isw almost always played on the nylon-string, there are several iterations, up to 11 strings, for instance, and some classical pieces can be played very effectively on the archtop or electric, as both Johnny Smith and Ted Greene proved. I often perform concerts with a mix of classical, flamenco, Brazilian and jazz pieces, and I find them very well-received in general.
    Consider that classical guitarist play most of the repertoire with "wrong" instrument. Classical guitar as we know was created in the last part of 1800: everything written before that date should be played with another instrument: 800 guitar, lute, baroque lute, vihuela and so on.

  18. #42

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    Randalljazz +1.I did this twentyfive years ago for two years and never regretted it.It teaches you to sight read whats in front of you and play as written.

  19. #43

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    Yes it's good for music reading, developing fingerstyle technique and playing beautiful "complete" sounding pieces. Like a piano player. (hearing someone playing this stuff when I was waiting for my guitar lesson long ago got me into it)

    But, most "classical guitarists" do not learn how to improvise. I'd say the Brazilian players might be an exception though, and their music tends to have more jazzy sounding elements. I really like the clips of Paulinho Nogiera I saw on youtube, and there's many others worth checking out!

  20. #44

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    I have been playing classical guitar for more than 40 years. Have had different teachers and still love the instrument. But it is true that with classical guitar you don't learn to improvise, chords, etc. I am starting now playing jazz guitar which opens a whole new world. It feels like I need to learn about music and theory again. I have always admired jazz guitar players, but also met many jazz guitar players who admired classical guitarists. I once had a nice chat with Kenny Burrell, and when he heard I play classical guitar he wanted to know everything about it. It is very nice to observe this mutual respect from jazz and classical guitarists. Each has its own merits and difficulties. What makes classical guitar so difficult is that you can hear every mistake. Btw those who like Bach's transcriptions for guitar should also check, next to Paul Galbraith, Frank Bungarten and Manuel Barrueco

  21. #45

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    Jazz musicians tend to have really good chops, (improvising chops ) without having learnt to play classical. There's nothing wrong with learning anything musical It's the time factor.... years of practice to become proficient at either,and if you have a day job as well, you wouldn't have time for anything else in life.. I think one discipline is enough for anyone to cope with....

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevus
    I have been playing classical guitar for more than 40 years. Have had different teachers and still love the instrument. But it is true that with classical guitar you don't learn to improvise, chords, etc. I am starting now playing jazz guitar which opens a whole new world. It feels like I need to learn about music and theory again. I have always admired jazz guitar players, but also met many jazz guitar players who admired classical guitarists. I once had a nice chat with Kenny Burrell, and when he heard I play classical guitar he wanted to know everything about it. It is very nice to observe this mutual respect from jazz and classical guitarists. Each has its own merits and difficulties. What makes classical guitar so difficult is that you can hear every mistake. Btw those who like Bach's transcriptions for guitar should also check, next to Paul Galbraith, Frank Bungarten and Manuel Barrueco
    Kenny Burrell studied with a guy who was a friend of my teacher named Joe Fava. Mr. Fava taught both jazz and classical , and in addition to Kenny, Scott Tennant and Earl Klugh were among his most distinguished students.

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ
    I would say get a qualified teacher too. My teacher teaches both jazz and classical, and I've just started taking strictly classical lessons from him. He has me on a regular practice exercise, where I work on technical stuff first, then music/songs/pieces. Here's stuff only a good teacher can tell you:

    *I've discovered, in short order, that, that my descending slurs are HORRIBLE. It's been easier to mask with an electric guitar and amp. I've found that I've been, instead of properly pulling with force down to the string below, I've been lifting the top note while not anchoring the bottom note properly without bending. Also, I've been "rushing" to the 2nd note of a descending slur. Even-steven, mofos, even-steven. That's the goal.

    *I play the thumb way too much with the flesh. It should be with the nails. He has me practicing first position chromatic scale patterns using the thumb only.

    *Playing two notes simultaneously, one with the thumb, and the other with the i,m, or a, is easy enough. However, playing two notes simultaneously with the thumb being played tirando while the i,m, or a is played apoyando, well, that's not so easy for me.


    What have I learned in a few short weeks? Right hand development is critical. Practically all musical problems are right hand problems. I start my technical practice with a small exercise book my teacher gave me by Miguel Abloniz: "50 Arpeggi for the right Right Hand".


    So, yeah, get a qualified teacher.
    +100

    This is exacty the kind of thing that can only be seriously addressed by regular one-to-one in-the-same-room tuition in my experience.

    Classical vs jazz guitar - just listen to Adam Rogers play nylon string!

  24. #48

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    Here's what Barry Harris has to say about it....

  25. #49

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    Barry Harris to me is a kind of grandfatherly genius of the first order. Scary brilliant. The music just flows out of his mind into the ether. To have the chance to study with him would have been priceless.

    He is quite correct about at least some classical players, though I'm not sure about those at the highest rungs of musical achievement. When I studied with a fine classical teacher in my early adolescent years, I was not instructed particularly in any serious musical theory. But when I started deciphering Beatles tunes, James Taylor, and other popular composers, I realized the deficit and remedied the situation. And I began to analyze what I was playing from that point of view. Actually, not formally analyze so much as hear it in in that perspective.

    Still for me it's about the ear. When you listen to Barry Harris play and scat along with his playing, you realize how it just flows for him. I just wish I had his fluid piano technique as well.

  26. #50

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    not any classical players i've ever known. jazz and pop musicians like to pass around that canard, to feel a little bit superior...pathetic, really...