Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Posts 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Except for Robert Fripp

    Maybe not totally appropriate for the Classical Guitar section, but for anyone like me who has struggled with classical tremolo technique for years, only to get to a modicum of technique at best, it is especially disconcerting to hear someone do it with a pick:

    Eastman 810 7 string
    D'Angelico Premiere Double Cutaway with Stetsbar Pro II
    Cigano GJ 10
    Frankenstrat Controller With Midi Pickup For Vintage Roland VG8
    Roland Cube 60 amp
    Acoustic AG-30 Acoustic Amp

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rsclosson View Post
    Except for Robert Fripp

    Maybe not totally appropriate for the Classical Guitar section, but for anyone like me who has struggled with classical tremolo technique for years, only to get to a modicum of technique at best, it is especially disconcerting to hear someone do it with a pick:

    Pretty common in mandolin playing
    -----------------------------------

    "The instrument keeps me humble. Sometimes I pick it up and it seems to say, "No, you can't play today." I keep at it anyway, though." Jim Hall

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by medblues View Post
    Pretty common in mandolin playing
    I've seen mandolin tremolo but not the classical style where the chords are being played along with the sustained tremolo notes all on the same instrument like Fripp does.
    Eastman 810 7 string
    D'Angelico Premiere Double Cutaway with Stetsbar Pro II
    Cigano GJ 10
    Frankenstrat Controller With Midi Pickup For Vintage Roland VG8
    Roland Cube 60 amp
    Acoustic AG-30 Acoustic Amp

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rsclosson View Post
    I've seen mandolin tremolo but not the classical style where the chords are being played along with the sustained tremolo notes all on the same instrument like Fripp does.
    I did not want to presume how he is doing it just from the audio
    -----------------------------------

    "The instrument keeps me humble. Sometimes I pick it up and it seems to say, "No, you can't play today." I keep at it anyway, though." Jim Hall

  6. #5
    All one person and one guitar no overdubs. Here is someone doing a transcription of it, albeit not as clean as Fripp does:
    Eastman 810 7 string
    D'Angelico Premiere Double Cutaway with Stetsbar Pro II
    Cigano GJ 10
    Frankenstrat Controller With Midi Pickup For Vintage Roland VG8
    Roland Cube 60 amp
    Acoustic AG-30 Acoustic Amp

  7. #6
    Here is a tab:
    http://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/Gi...ajor_%28Tab%29

    Relatively easy fingerstyle but much more challenging with a pick.
    Eastman 810 7 string
    D'Angelico Premiere Double Cutaway with Stetsbar Pro II
    Cigano GJ 10
    Frankenstrat Controller With Midi Pickup For Vintage Roland VG8
    Roland Cube 60 amp
    Acoustic AG-30 Acoustic Amp

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rsclosson View Post
    All one person and one guitar no overdubs. Here is someone doing a transcription of it, albeit not as clean as Fripp does:
    Thanks ! Pretty cool but it does not look as impossible as it sounds, maybe he is very relaxed and that helps . With an electric guitar, it would also be easy to use the classical tremolo technique because you worry less about producing a volume due to having the amp do that for you so you can touch the strings very lightly which would improve speed and consistency.

  9. #8
    Definitely requires a relaxed right hand and lots of control. I played thru the tab with traditional classical right hand technique and it was not too bad. With a pick, however, it is going to take many slow repetitions to get the pattern under my fingers; at least it will for me.
    Eastman 810 7 string
    D'Angelico Premiere Double Cutaway with Stetsbar Pro II
    Cigano GJ 10
    Frankenstrat Controller With Midi Pickup For Vintage Roland VG8
    Roland Cube 60 amp
    Acoustic AG-30 Acoustic Amp

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    I've seen mandolin tremolo but not the classical style where the chords are being played along with the sustained tremolo notes all on the same instrument like Fripp does.
    This kind of playing tremolo is called "Duo Style" on the mandolin. Evan Marshall is a master.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by crisscross View Post
    This kind of playing tremolo is called "Duo Style" on the mandolin. Evan Marshall is a master.
    Never have seen anything like that! Very impressive.
    Eastman 810 7 string
    D'Angelico Premiere Double Cutaway with Stetsbar Pro II
    Cigano GJ 10
    Frankenstrat Controller With Midi Pickup For Vintage Roland VG8
    Roland Cube 60 amp
    Acoustic AG-30 Acoustic Amp

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    It's not really a relaxed right hand, it is a poised right hand, always ready to play. Relaxing leaves you unready to play, have you seen a sprinter look relaxed at the start of a race? Of course there should be no negative strain, but a certain amount of muscle activity needs to keep the hand ready for the next move.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz View Post
    It's not really a relaxed right hand, it is a poised right hand, always ready to play. Relaxing leaves you unready to play, have you seen a sprinter look relaxed at the start of a race? Of course there should be no negative strain, but a certain amount of muscle activity needs to keep the hand ready for the next move.

    I believe I said that when I said a relaxed right hand and lots of control.
    Eastman 810 7 string
    D'Angelico Premiere Double Cutaway with Stetsbar Pro II
    Cigano GJ 10
    Frankenstrat Controller With Midi Pickup For Vintage Roland VG8
    Roland Cube 60 amp
    Acoustic AG-30 Acoustic Amp

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    Here is the problem with this. In music school they had pick style students working on this stuff. I always felt so bad for them because they are putting tons of work in, for what is soooooo much easier to do fingerpicking. I think if anyone tried it without a pick, they would be able to achieve better results faster.

    My two cents...

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    that's difficult and impressive. nevertheless, it's still is much slower than is done finger style on any number of classical studies and pieces. tough sledding.

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rsclosson View Post
    Except for Robert Fripp

    Maybe not totally appropriate for the Classical Guitar section, but for anyone like me who has struggled with classical tremolo technique for years, only to get to a modicum of technique at best, it is especially disconcerting to hear someone do it with a pick:
    BPM needs to be at least 125+ before it starts to sound like a true tremolo. 155-160 is the accepted norm. I love Fripp, but this is not a tremolo in the true sense of the technique and application. The goal is that the melody sounds continuous and the ear perceives no gap between the melody and the accompaniment. A good tremolo is an aural slight of hand; an illusion.

    Check out the 1:32 mark of this vid:



    There is a reason that many well known classical players have no tremolo pieces in their performance repertoire.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by crisscross View Post
    This kind of playing tremolo is called "Duo Style" on the mandolin. Evan Marshall is a master.
    Even with his Wife on the side playing the low part- it sounds difficult ....lol.

    Really Impressive...( OK no wife out of camera range...I get it ).

    Even the Tones coming out of that little Mandolin are really nice.

    Regarding Tremelo with a Pick- much easier to do with a pick than with fingers
    I , M in rest strokes as in Classical and Flamenco.

    With Pick a very good way to get upstrokes and downstrokes even in volume and be able to accent either one etc.

    I came to the Jazz Forum for the Harmonic Expansion/ Expertise that Jazz Guys have to a very workable degree ( Black Belt ) or to an extreme degree ( 7th Degree Black Belt...lol) and all points in between..and have not been disappointed but surprised that picking has not evolved more...

    Anyway ...the cutoff for most Classical Guitar Students is usually that many are not able to just zip around the Guitar like many Student Pick Players are ..for example.

    Tremelo is one of the first exercises for pick playing IMO because it lets someone
    find their' economy of motion' comfortable pick grip and angle etc..dynamics and equal force on up and downstrokes which is a great starting point for everything else.
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 07-23-2016 at 10:57 PM.

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    You realize that the fellow doing the Fripp piece is playing with a pick and two fingers, right? It's the same style of playing that Glenn Campbell, Danny Gatton, and all of the Country hot shots perfected, only they generally didn't use it to produce a tremelo. Roy Clark, however, did exactly that with pick and fingers when he'd play Malaguena.

    Watch the clip and you will see the two fingers performing the upstrokes as the thumb and index finger perform downstrokes with the pick. This works.

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    Here's some tremolo with a pick by that you might have missed in the original mix. Example at 1:30 and scattered elsewhere in the clip. And, oh yeah, Jamerson: