Players using classical technique?

**hed_b94** · 03-18-2011, 03:23 PM

I'm a fingerstyle guitar jazz player, and I know there are few players around who do it aswell, but are there any players who have classical technique?
I'm not talking on the sitting down, but rather on the left hand and right hand position, nails, and things like that.

(I hope the difference between the casual electric guitar fingerstyle and classical guitar technique is clear!)

**Jazzpunk** · 03-18-2011, 07:45 PM

Does Sylvain Luc meet your criteria?

**fumblefingers** · 03-18-2011, 10:33 PM

heck no. just watch.

**Jazzpunk** · 03-18-2011, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

heck no. just watch.

I'm not a classical guitar guy so I wouldn't know what to watch for. Luc was my best guess lol.

**jseaberry** · 03-19-2011, 12:41 AM

Fred Fried? Gene Bertoncini? David Oakes? Paul Meyers?

**jseaberry** · 03-19-2011, 12:43 AM

Ken Hatfield.

**hed_b94** · 03-19-2011, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by jseaberry

Fred Fried? Gene Bertoncini? David Oakes? Paul Meyers?

cool, thanks. I'm looking mostly for electric guitar players using something-like classical technique. George Van Eps is a good example. Joe Pass is kind of in the middle in between.

**bako** · 03-19-2011, 09:43 AM

Freddie Bryant

Freddie Bryant

**hed_b94** · 03-19-2011, 05:35 PM

I actually meant electric (archtop) guitar players, even though there are obviously more classical guitar players using classical guitar technique.

**Jazzpunk** · 03-19-2011, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by hed_b94

cool, thanks. I'm looking mostly for electric guitar players using something-like classical technique. George Van Eps is a good example. Joe Pass is kind of in the middle in between.

I see what you're talking about when I watch clips of Van Eps. Is this a style that you are developing as well?

**hed_b94** · 03-19-2011, 07:46 PM

Yes. I thought of this idea and luckily found that there is one master of it, but since then I really can't seem to find others.

**jseaberry** · 03-19-2011, 10:19 PM

Steve Herberman and to some extent, Sid Jacobs.

**monk** · 03-20-2011, 12:54 AM

Lenny Breau

**fumblefingers** · 03-20-2011, 01:36 AM

what is the major appeal of this approach? just curious.

although i respect his conceptual contributions, I never appreciated the sound of Van Eps much, and repeated listenings don't change it for me.

for my ears, fingerstyle playing on steel strings is abrasive, although some have made it sound better than others. Pass comes to mind.

**Jazzpunk** · 03-20-2011, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by hed_b94

Yes. I thought of this idea and luckily found that there is one master of it, but since then I really can't seem to find others.

Just found this guys vids while searching archtop demos on youtube (thought you might find them of interest):

**hed_b94** · 03-20-2011, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

what is the major appeal of this approach? just curious.

although i respect his conceptual contributions, I never appreciated the sound of Van Eps much, and repeated listenings don't change it for me.

for my ears, fingerstyle playing on steel strings is abrasive, although some have made it sound better than others. Pass comes to mind.

When you control your fingers like a classical player, you really don't need the pick anymore.
Heavy gauge strings and the right nails will get you a great sound, even for single lines melodies.

I can understand why you don't like van eps' playing, but my ideal playing is a little different. I want to play the guitar in a pianistic way in small jazz combos or trio, not just solo stuff. Can't really give you an example of it, because I have yet to find a guitar player who plays that way. Gilad Hekselman is kind of close, but still not it. (And he's a pick player, although he does use his other fingers!)

Watch the last video of Jazzpunk, and I think it will be clear why I don't think the pick is needed. Thanks for showing me this guy, I had somewhat lack of confidence in my ideas since no one really does it.

**Jazzaluk** · 03-20-2011, 10:14 AM

This is about as close as I can find. I think some modifications to the classical technique are required to get the jazz feel and touch, but if ou can get close to this, you should be good for any gig.

YouTube - ????? ?? pabzum

**fumblefingers** · 03-20-2011, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by hed_b94

When you control your fingers like a classical player, you really don't need the pick anymore.
Heavy gauge strings and the right nails will get you a great sound, even for single lines melodies.

I can understand why you don't like van eps' playing, but my ideal playing is a little different. I want to play the guitar in a pianistic way in small jazz combos or trio, not just solo stuff. Can't really give you an example of it, because I have yet to find a guitar player who plays that way. Gilad Hekselman is kind of close, but still not it. (And he's a pick player, although he does use his other fingers!)

Watch the last video of Jazzpunk, and I think it will be clear why I don't think the pick is needed. Thanks for showing me this guy, I had somewhat lack of confidence in my ideas since no one really does it.

a pick? he's playing with at least two picks that i can see. one on his thumb and one on the tip of his index finger.

he sounds pretty good. nice Buscarino 7-string Virtuoso too. tasty.

**hed_b94** · 03-20-2011, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzaluk

This is about as close as I can find. I think some modifications to the classical technique are required to get the jazz feel and touch, but if ou can get close to this, you should be good for any gig.

YouTube - ????? ?? pabzum

Oh yeah! this guy is great, thanks for showing me him.

fumble-
I didn't notice the picks, sorry. nevertheless, he still uses them downstroke only, and could do the same stuff with well shaped nails.

**fumblefingers** · 03-20-2011, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by hed_b94

Oh yeah! this guy is great, thanks for showing me him.

fumble-
I didn't notice the picks, sorry. nevertheless, he still uses them downstroke only, and could do the same stuff with well shaped nails.

this Pabzum guy is a very nice player. not much need for fingerstyle though, at least not in his solos. my guess is that he converted from nylon string to this.

here's a question, how do you keep your nails from shredding when you play steel strings for hours?

seems to me if you play your guitar every 3rd day your good to go.

**CGKnight** · 03-20-2011, 12:04 PM

Would Jimmy Wyble and Ted Greene fit the bill?
I would take a risk and add Charlie Byrd.

**hed_b94** · 03-20-2011, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

this Pabzum guy is a very nice player. not much need for fingerstyle though, at least not in his solos. my guess is that he converted from nylon string to this.

here's a question, how do you keep your nails from shredding when you play steel strings for hours?

seems to me if you play your guitar every 3rd day your good to go.

That is a good question and I don't know it for sure, but I think that heavy strings (0.12 set and above) won't shred my nails.

**fumblefingers** · 03-22-2011, 12:53 AM

lets put this to bed. to your original question - the answer is no, no no.

yes, you can play fingerstyle all you want, and yes you can use your nails a bit, but no - it shall not be with classical technique. it will be a modified version of classical technique to say the least.

and one more thing, steel strings will shred your nails if you use them in the classical fashion. so will classical strings (strings 6,5,4 anyway). see David Russell's web site for a discussion about this.

OK? so the answer to your original question is - no.

**hed_b94** · 03-22-2011, 01:18 AM

Ok.
You said the technique must be modified, so... how, and why?

**fumblefingers** · 03-22-2011, 09:06 AM

ok.
how familiar are you with classical right hand techniques?

for starters, can you play intermediate to advanced classical studies or pieces at this time?

are you already well versed with the Segovia scales and Giuliani right hand studies? do you play these with the kind of hand position and striking angle/techniques described in say....Noad's first book?