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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    and why do you think it wouldn't sound 'stylistically correct'? the classical technique is the "right" technique for guitar playing.
    Classical technique is the 'right' technique for playing classical guitar not the 'right' technique for playing all styles of guitar. If you want to adopt this technique go for it! It's hardly a requirement for becoming a jazz guitarist though.

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    I don't care if you can play Bach on lute, or with your ass, because I'm talking about GUITAR technique.

    Now for your next childish move:
    My playing isn't related.
    very nice...

    good luck !

    btw... for anyone else interested:

    http://"http://www.EarlyRomanticGuit...echnique.htm"]

    interesting quote:

    The technique of Aguado is nearly identical to today's classical guitar technique, while Sor's technique seems to be borrowed more from the lute. I have often wondered if these two players did not have different roots: Aguado from the Baroque Guitar tradition, and Sor from the Lute tradition. Obviously, the strummed baroque guitar requires the right hand to be free, while the lute required the pinkie to be anchored to the top. Nearly every technique today, namely ima alternation, straight wrist playing, rasguado, rest stroke, nails or not, can be found dating back several centuries even before the 6-string guitar. Such techniques varied considerably by performer, country, time period, and style.
    Last edited by oneworld; 03-26-2011 at 04:14 PM.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    Please tell me you're kidding....

    This thread is about guitar, and guitar technique. I don't care if you can play Bach on lute, or with your ass, because I'm talking about GUITAR technique.
    So you tell me I should rethink my playing, as if yours is better FOR GUITAR, but then changing to "it's better for me". So please decide, and don't bother me.


    Now for your next childish move:
    My playing isn't related. And isn't even a topic of discussion here. I only replied to you talking about your technique.
    Please tell me you are kidding with this BS!

    You didn't really think you were going to call out a musician of oneworld's caliber on his technique and not have him expect you to back it up did you?!

    Show some respect man, people are just trying to be helpful.

  5. #54
    Telling me to show some respect right after referring to my message as "this bullshit". that's lovely.

    I really have no interest in arguing with oneworld and his protectors/fans, or talking about lute technique which I'm really not very familiar with, so please let's return to the original purpose of this topic.

  6. #55

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    Last edited by oneworld; 03-26-2011 at 05:13 PM.

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    Telling me to show some respect right after referring to my message as "this bullshit". that's lovely.

    I really have no interest in arguing with oneworld and his protectors/fans, or talking about lute technique which I'm really not very familiar with, so please let's return to the original purpose of this topic.
    Sorry but calling out someone on their technique and than lashing out when asked to back it up is BS imo.

    I really have no interest in arguing with defensive forum members who lack respect for the real players on this board. Enjoy your thread!

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld View Post

    Muthspiel is amazing! He so easily applies or adapts his classical technique to whatever instrument he is playing at the time. Never locking himself into one finger style technique but easily flowing from one to the other depending on the instrument and the requirements of the music.

    Do you have his 'Friendly Travellers' DVD? It is really wonderful!

  9. #58

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    fyi... here's eliot's version of sagreras' 'el colibri' and my version of it
    played on a Gibson Super400CES w/fingerstyle RH/lute (no nails) technique:



    Last edited by oneworld; 03-26-2011 at 05:35 PM.

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzaluk View Post
    The classical technique is really about tone and projection on a classical guitar. It does not produce the same effect with amplification where projection is not the driver. On electric guitars the touch has to be adapted to the amplifier and the tone you desire. There are more variables so experimentation is necessary.
    couldn't have said it better...

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzpunk View Post
    Muthspiel is amazing! He so easily applies or adapts his classical technique to whatever instrument he is playing at the time. Never locking himself into one finger style technique but easily flowing from one to the other depending on the instrument and the requirements of the music.

    Do you have his 'Friendly Travellers' DVD? It is really wonderful!
    yes, have that one...

    wolfgang has an unfair advantage because he was a violinplayer too...

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld View Post
    fyi... here's eliot's version of sagreras' 'el colibri' and my version of it
    played on a Gibson Super400CES w/fingerstyle RH/lute (no nails) technique:



    i liked your version better than Bill Gates'. time seemed better for one.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    1 mostly.

    I think there is a little part of the technique that is a must to modify in order to IMPROVISE, mostly the part of right hand fingerings (I hope that makes sense, I just don't know the name of it- I DONT mean left hand). Other than that it's prboably best to go the classical way. Of course even in classical there are different approaches for different kind of people, but the principles are the same.


    aristotle- just because you can't understand the difference doesn't mean it's not there.
    There are some differences that fumble pointed out himself, I think the main one would be the sitting position. after that I will say the right hand position and attack angle.


    So here's a specific for you- why do most non-classical players lower their right hand and place it as if they were playing with a pick?
    Why is it better for jazz than for classical?
    And why do they place their thumb so high on the neck, even when bending isn't needed at all? and play with no seperation of the left hand fingers?


    I think the classical way is better for everything- Beatles and Bach, but most people don't play that way, and there are major differences between those two. If you can't see them, then you probably never learned classical and should stop posting here. If you did and just have a problem with the terms I am using, then I'll say the diffences between them is exactly the specifis I said earlier.

    yeah, i thought #1 (or 3) was where you were going. did you ever say whether you play a steel vs. nylon stringed instrument? if nylon, i say go for it!

    if steel, i will just say i'm skeptical, but go for it.

  14. #63

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    [quote=Aristotle;133135]I wonder what that means in English.
    -----

    i think its just an overstatement. speaking in absolutes or quasi-absolutes (where humans are concerned) usually is.

    there is however, and element of truth in it. electric bands tend to play loud a great deal of the time, but not all of the time of course. they tend to play mildly loud to very loud.
    Last edited by fumblefingers; 03-26-2011 at 08:25 PM.

  15. #64
    [QUOTE=fumblefingers;133243]
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    I wonder what that means in English.
    -----

    i think its just an overstatement. speaking in absolutes or quasi-absolutes (where humans are concerned) usually is.

    there is however, and element of truth in it. electric bands tend to play loud a great deal of the time, but not all of the time of course. they tend to play mildly loud to very loud.
    There was another topic on the forum about nails and how to keep them, and now I think it is possible to play with nails on metal strings. If it's too much of a trouble I can always play without the nails.

  16. #65

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    kevin eubanks uses a 'lute/baroque guitar type' no nail RH technique with resting pinkie when playing lines/chords... incorporating classical, flamenco, blues & wes RH techniques etc... on electric & acoustic guitars... i'm not aware of anyone on this kind of a level who's using a classical 'nail' RH technique on steel string guitars... is there ?!?

    great shots of kevin's RH technique in these vids:





    Last edited by oneworld; 03-27-2011 at 11:54 AM.

  17. #66
    oneworld- the players are great but it's really unrelated to what I'm asking.
    If you think there is no guitarist in the world who plays classical (modern technique) on electric, just say it.

    You are more than welcome to open your own thread and post all these great players there.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    If you think there is no guitarist in the world who plays classical (modern technique) on electric, just say it.
    nah... please... you help me out here...

    do you know anyone by name and credentials who's doing it ?

    george van eps is really not employing very advanced modern classical
    RH techniques...

    i'm just posting clips by all these great players to let everyone see that one can
    play electric fingerstyle without having to use 'modern' classical technique.
    so, what's wrong with that ?!? can't take a healthy discussion ?
    Last edited by oneworld; 03-27-2011 at 01:10 PM.

  19. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld View Post
    nah... please... you help me out here...

    do you know anyone by name and credentials who's doing it ?

    george van eps is really not employing very advanced modern classical
    RH techniques...

    i'm just posting clips by all these great players to let everyone see that one can
    play electric fingerstyle without having to use 'modern' classical technique.
    so, what's wrong with that ?!? can't take a healthy discussion ?
    Ok, so there are none.


    But that's not what the discussion is about. If you want to talk about electric fingerstyle without having to use modren classical technique -open your own topic and do it there. Please do not answer my message, goodbye.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    Ok, so there are none.

    But that's not what the discussion is about. If you want to talk about electric fingerstyle without having to use modren classical technique -open your own topic and do it there. Please do not answer my message, goodbye.
    oh young padewan, you need to relax !

    i've reread all your posts in this thread and i'm getting the impression
    you're not really interested in a sincere discussion... and you've been quite
    unfriendly to some other posters here, who were making informed suggestions and giving you their perspectives... so what do you expect ?

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    aristotle- just because you can't understand the difference doesn't mean it's not there.
    Then again, maybe there is no difference. A vibrating sound wave does't know if it is part of classical music or jazz. Maybe the biggest difference is between nylon-string acoustic and electric, not "classical" and "jazz." If tone is a function of electronics, then it doesn't matter if you have flat wrist.

  22. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    Then again, maybe there is no difference. A vibrating sound wave does't know if it is part of classical music or jazz. Maybe the biggest difference is between nylon-string acoustic and electric, not "classical" and "jazz." If tone is a function of electronics, then it doesn't matter if you have flat wrist.
    Just because you have that nick name doesn't mean you need to try being philosophical. A vibrating sound wave does't know if it is part of classical music or jazz. Yeah, and?
    The musical genre really doesn't matter, it's the instrument and the technique. So what is your point? You've made complete pointless messages so far.
    The main idea here is classical-TECHNIQUE on electric guitar, since it is a JAZZ forum and I'm interested mostly in jazz, I asked for those kind of players.

    Of course the flat wrist matters, just like other aspects of the technique.
    Do you think that on electric guitar the attack angle doesn't change the timbre? and even if it was the same tone, one way might be better and easier for one to play with less strain.



    I think for last 2 pages the point is being missed. I don't care for these discussions, for some reason every one tries to pick a minor detail and focus on him instead of the real purpose of my post.
    Last edited by hed_b94; 03-27-2011 at 07:03 PM.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    I wonder what that means in English.
    -----

    I continue to think the communication breakdown is the result of the use of the word "classical technique." Whatever that means in the thread title, nylong strings and steel don't operate quite the same way as metal strings. Right hand technique is about setting strings in motion, and stopping the motion. Unless there is a specific technical question, I can't really say there is a difference between what the opening post called "casual fingerpicking" and "classical." I don't do anything paricularly different for Beatles than I do for Bach.

    If you want to fingerpick, then fingerpick. Some jazz has to be played that way, some can be played in multiple ways.
    Here is the interview--Keith Jarrett being interviewed by Ethan Iverson--Keith talks a lot on the issues of INTERPRETATION (his classical background) and IMPROVISATION.

    the relevant quote on touch and dynamics--

    "Somebody asked Gary, you must’ve heard this or seen this, on some video about touch, and what was it like to play with Bill versus Keith.* It was kind of a dangerous question to ask.* And Gary was really good, he said something like, “Well, Bill didn’t have a touch, he had a sound.* It was always the same sound.* Keith modulates the touch depending on what the needs of the music are.” Touch, in jazz, is pretty rare, in the sense that you can choose from a vast array of things.*

    EI:* Although, I think the minute you put a ride cymbal on stage, you’ve eliminated sixty percent of what the piano can do.*

    KJ:* That’s partly true.* Yeah.

    EI:* But I actually think that’s something important to jazz piano in a way.* The sound has that thing that fights against a ride cymbal.*

    KJ:* Yeah, it isn’t that players don’t have that sound, and it isn’t that they don’t want that sound.* It’s just that I think there’s been a very much lower consciousness of that element.* You know, in the classical world, some of those people are coming because of my touch.* Whereas, probably that’s true with the jazz people, too, but it might not be the first thing they think of.* They’re thinking of ideas.* Or, pulse.

    EI:* My impression is that most jazz pianists would have trouble playing below a certain dynamic consistently.*

    KJ:* Classical players never pound, but they also never actually get soft, soft, soft, soft, to the point of risking that the note won’t play.* Benedetti Michelangeli is an exception.*"

    The whole interview is FANTASTIC!

    Interview with Keith Jarrett - Do The Math

    An example of something I was practicing on the issue of dynamics --this time with a pick--keep the velocity of the down and up strokes the same, do not speed up or slow down, but consciously make the sound noticably louder or appreciably softer--by changing the intensity of how you hold the pick.

  24. #73

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    another real constraint with using classical guitar RH technique on an electric guitar (besides the steel strings shredding your nails to bits), is string spacing.

    even a Benedetto or Buscarino with 1 12/16" nut width isn't really wide enough for the full blown classical RH, unless your fingers are as narrow as pencils. you should probably cogitate on that for a bit.

    perhaps that's why some guys switch to Buscarino Grand Cabaret's. or Godin's.

    (incidentally doesn't Eubanks play with a very wide neck? i seem to recollect that he was quoted somewhere saying something about it... i'll be embarrased if that topic is covered in one of the above vids, which i haven't watched yet.)

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    Just because you have that nick name doesn't mean you need to try being philosophical.
    It's my real name, an heirloom from my grandfather. Maybe if I posted as "X" you wouldn't pick that minor detail and be able to focus.

    I think for last 2 pages the point is being missed. I don't care for these discussions, for some reason every one tries to pick a minor detail and focus on him instead of the real purpose of my post.
    Who knows? Maybe your sense of entitlement to the exact answers you want, your general unappreciative nature, and musical stubborness that make people want to place the cheese just beyond your reach.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers View Post
    another real constraint with using classical guitar RH technique on an electric guitar
    Wouldn't the strings be just as close together at every wrist angle?

  27. #76

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    lenny breau, jeff linsky, roland dyens.
    not much point in using pure classical technique if u arent playing a classical guitar though. the control over tone and other dynamics it gives doesnt transfer to electric/steel stringed guitars

  28. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    Wouldn't the strings be just as close together at every wrist angle?

    the point is that the strings are too close for RH classical technique. thats why you see so many guys (steel string fingerstyle players) modifying the technique (shorter overall stroke, repeated finger strokes, etc) . things are more confined.

    its no accident that the classical guitar nut width is just over 2". its not for fat fingers on the left hand. in fact it makes it harder on the left hand to play almost everything.
    Last edited by fumblefingers; 03-28-2011 at 08:39 AM.

  29. #78

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    I'm not getting what the controversy is here--I would think we all agree that the differences in guitar, size, strings, nut width, nail length, amplification, would necessitate that the touch and strokes are not exactly the same.

    But my goal in learning classical technique is to really FREE the right hand, to really get the fingers working, really develop finger independence and coordination. to be able to go to musical places the pick can't take you.

  30. #79

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    "Jazz and the Classical Guitar/Theory and Application." By Ken Hatfield.

    I recommend anyone interested in the topic to read and apply the materials covered in the book.

    There are so many negative posts on this thread--doesn't help anyone...

  31. #80

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    yes, ken is a great player, but he's mostly playing nylon-string guitars !

    the OP's starting point of discussion was that 'modern classical RH guitar
    technique' (re: hand positioning, nails etc) is applicable to an electric archtop steel-string guitar for 'fingerstyle jazz guitar' playing...

    great topic !!!

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers View Post
    (incidentally doesn't Eubanks play with a very wide neck? i seem to recollect that he was quoted somewhere saying something about it... i'll be embarrased if that topic is covered in one of the above vids, which i haven't watched yet.)
    kevin's electric archtop and a couple of his acoustic steel-string guitars
    do have considerably wider necks built to his specs by abe rivera.

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld View Post
    yes, have that one...

    wolfgang has an unfair advantage because he was a violinplayer too...
    and he is a trained classical guitar player, but i never heard/saw him
    play his RH technique on an electric steel-string guitar... he keeps switching
    over to the pick... as you can see in this great clip where he starts out on the
    frameworks classical...



    @fumblefingers...

    have you heard the trio w/ ralph towner and slava grigoryan ?

    Last edited by oneworld; 03-28-2011 at 01:02 PM.

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    I'm not getting what the controversy is here--I would think we all agree that the differences in guitar, size, strings, nut width, nail length, amplification, would necessitate that the touch and strokes are not exactly the same.

    But my goal in learning classical technique is to really FREE the right hand, to really get the fingers working, really develop finger independence and coordination. to be able to go to musical places the pick can't take you.
    exactly... i've been at it for more than 30 years...

    btw, great post about jarrett and evans !

  35. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers View Post
    another real constraint with using classical guitar RH technique on an electric guitar (besides the steel strings shredding your nails to bits), is string spacing.

    even a Benedetto or Buscarino with 1 12/16" nut width isn't really wide enough for the full blown classical RH, unless your fingers are as narrow as pencils. you should probably cogitate on that for a bit.

    perhaps that's why some guys switch to Buscarino Grand Cabaret's. or Godin's.

    (incidentally doesn't Eubanks play with a very wide neck? i seem to recollect that he was quoted somewhere saying something about it... i'll be embarrased if that topic is covered in one of the above vids, which i haven't watched yet.)
    How are the strings spaces on 7 strings hollow electric guitars?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld View Post
    yes, ken is a great player, but he's mostly playing nylon-string guitars !

    the OP's starting point of discussion was that 'modern classical RH guitar
    technique' (re: hand positioning, nails etc) is applicable to an electric archtop steel-string guitar for 'fingerstyle jazz guitar' playing...



    great topic !!!
    Why do I need to tell you this so many times? This wasn't supposed to be a discussion about classical technique. I just assumed there ARE players like that, and asked for them.
    Somehow since your first message here all you do is talk about technique and how about I'm scared from a "healty discussion".
    Quote Originally Posted by rvi View Post
    lenny breau, jeff linsky, roland dyens.
    not much point in using pure classical technique if u arent playing a classical guitar though. the control over tone and other dynamics it gives doesnt transfer to electric/steel stringed guitars
    Maybe not as sublte as on the nylon strings, but I'm sure some of the tibre difference are hear-able. And besides, the idea of that is more about the harmonic-pianistic use of the guitar. So maybe 'pure' isn't the best choice, but only few changes are needed.
    Last edited by hed_b94; 03-28-2011 at 01:20 PM.

  36. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    It's my real name, an heirloom from my grandfather. Maybe if I posted as "X" you wouldn't pick that minor detail and be able to focus.

    Who knows? Maybe your sense of entitlement to the exact answers you want, your general unappreciative nature, and musical stubborness that make people want to place the cheese just beyond your reach.
    Do you see the irony?

    You ignore the main part of the message, focusing on the aristotle thing, so you can blame me for doing exactly what you just did. Thus proving my point...

  37. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    Do you see the irony?
    No, because I intentionally avoided what you think is the main point, and told you so in the next sentence. If I had done it unwittingly, it would be irony.

  38. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    Do you see the irony?
    That you are so ungracious as to argue pointlessly with people instead of just saying 'thank you'? Yes, it is ironic, now that you mention it, I had put it down to plain bad manners, or out-and-out trolling. Wouldn't you be happier on a soccer forum or something?

  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers View Post
    the point is that the strings are too close for RH classical technique. thats why you see so many guys (steel string fingerstyle players) modifying the technique (shorter overall stroke, repeated finger strokes, etc) . things are more confined.

    its no accident that the classical guitar nut width is just over 2". its not for fat fingers on the left hand. in fact it makes it harder on the left hand to play almost everything.
    I think some of that is true. I prefer wider necks for the left hand - for chords that have open strings between the fretted strings, and generally to help keep left hand fingers from interferring with a held over note.

    On the RH, I figured one finger per string and or "repeated strokes" result because most players don't train themselves in the daunting complexities of the RH. The "flat wrist" you described is a sign (to me) of playing from the 'wrong' joint (and the habit of palm-muting, and it feels more natural in the beginning). IMO, playing off the wrong joint inhibits i-m and other types of velocity because it entails using opposing muscle groups which also leads to excess tension. Playing off the wrong joint inhibits the capacity to control tone because you won't be able to make the string vibrate at angles that approach being perpendicular to the body of the guitar. (This is not to say a "classically" trained player never uses flat-wristed positions).

    The flat-wristed position is the one that creates the need to "shorten" the stroke as you call it - I assume to avoid hitting the next string. If anything, when playing out of a more 'correct' wrist position, you might want to bend the wrist more, not less, to avoid hitting the next string. Flattening the wrist puts the next strong MORE in the pathway, not less.

    So, I don't see the complex of "flat wristed" characteristics you describe as growing out of neck width. I think it because many of these players don't have to perform varied and demanding things with the right hand fingers. So, they have no reason to develop the technique. And as this is jazz, the tendency is to play what is natural to you, not necessarily what is demanded by the composer.
    Last edited by Aristotle; 03-28-2011 at 02:44 PM.

  40. #89

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    i guess it's time for another beautiful player to lighten up the mood...

    Last edited by oneworld; 03-28-2011 at 03:57 PM.

  41. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld View Post
    and he is a trained classical guitar player, but i never heard/saw him
    play his RH technique on an electric steel-string guitar... he keeps switching
    over to the pick... as you can see in this great clip where he starts out on the
    frameworks classical...



    @fumblefingers...

    have you heard the trio w/ ralph towner and slava grigoryan ?


    hey thanks for that vid. nice mood. have to admit though, this tune makes me wish for a player who is more explosive than any of those players, but slightly less explosive than Johnny Mac. Like say.... Metheny. but then, i didnt have to think that hard to say that. this has an ECMish sound already doesnt it?

  42. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    How are the strings spaces on 7 strings hollow electric guitars?


    Why do I need to tell you this so many times? This wasn't supposed to be a discussion about classical technique. I just assumed there ARE players like that, and asked for them.
    Somehow since your first message here all you do is talk about technique and how about I'm scared from a "healty discussion".


    Maybe not as sublte as on the nylon strings, but I'm sure some of the tibre difference are hear-able. And besides, the idea of that is more about the harmonic-pianistic use of the guitar. So maybe 'pure' isn't the best choice, but only few changes are needed.
    string spacing would be the same as a regular Benedetto or Buscarino archtop, methinks. just one extra string.

  43. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    I think some of that is true. I prefer wider necks for the left hand - for chords that have open strings between the fretted strings, and generally to help keep left hand fingers from interferring with a held over note.

    On the RH, I figured one finger per string and or "repeated strokes" result because most players don't train themselves in the daunting complexities of the RH. The "flat wrist" you described is a sign (to me) of playing from the 'wrong' joint (and the habit of palm-muting, and it feels more natural in the beginning). IMO, playing off the wrong joint inhibits i-m and other types of velocity because it entails using opposing muscle groups which also leads to excess tension. Playing off the wrong joint inhibits the capacity to control tone because you won't be able to make the string vibrate at angles that approach being perpendicular to the body of the guitar. (This is not to say a "classically" trained player never uses flat-wristed positions).

    The flat-wristed position is the one that creates the need to "shorten" the stroke as you call it - I assume to avoid hitting the next string. If anything, when playing out of a more 'correct' wrist position, you might want to bend the wrist more, not less, to avoid hitting the next string. Flattening the wrist puts the next strong MORE in the pathway, not less.

    So, I don't see the complex of "flat wristed" characteristics you describe as growing out of neck width. I think it because many of these players don't have to perform varied and demanding things with the right hand fingers. So, they have no reason to develop the technique. And as this is jazz, the tendency is to play what is natural to you, not necessarily what is demanded by the composer.
    yeah, i'm not saying that all the "blasphemies" that non-classical fingerstyle players commit are due to relatively narrow string spacing.

    i'll bet that Hatfield's book is informative. think i'll get it.

    i think that we can conclude that classical guitar is classical guitar. there may be similar playing styles (techniques). but similar is not the same.

    another problem solved.

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    Maybe not as sublte as on the nylon strings, but I'm sure some of the tibre difference are hear-able. And besides, the idea of that is more about the harmonic-pianistic use of the guitar. So maybe 'pure' isn't the best choice, but only few changes are needed.
    yeah sure. there are plenty of guys that play with a kind of appraoch that enables them to play multiple parts. anderson, gatton, pass, van eps, garland, byrd and so on. also stanley jordan has a rather unique style

  45. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers View Post
    yeah, i'm not saying that all the "blasphemies" that non-classical fingerstyle players commit are due to relatively narrow string spacing.
    I am not sure any of the blasphemies are due to string spacing.

    i think that we can conclude that classical guitar is classical guitar. there may be similar playing styles (techniques). but similar is not the same.
    I continue to resist that. You can play classical music on a nylon string with your hand in a bad position as I did for years. Now I can play all types of music with better technique on any guitar.

  46. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    It's my real name, an heirloom from my grandfather. Maybe if I posted as "X" you wouldn't pick that minor detail and be able to focus.

    Who knows? Maybe your sense of entitlement to the exact answers you want, your general unappreciative nature, and musical stubborness that make people want to place the cheese just beyond your reach.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    I am not sure any of the blasphemies are due to string spacing.

    I continue to resist that. You can play classical music on a nylon string with your hand in a bad position as I did for years. Now I can play all types of music with better technique on any guitar.
    Of course you CAN, but you will have many limitations with your playing.
    Playing the notes on the guitar isn't really that hard, it's hard to do it beatifully and clean, without mistakes.

  47. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    Of course you CAN, but you will have many limitations with your playing.
    And exactly how will using optimal RH fingerstyle technique limit my playing?

    Just a hunch I have had from the start - that you don't have a clue what I am talking about. Prove me wrong by explaining what my reference to opposing muscle groups and tension, was about.
    Last edited by Aristotle; 03-29-2011 at 12:53 PM.

  48. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    And exactly how will using optimal RH fingerstyle technique limit my playing?

    Just a hunch I have had from the start - that you don't have a clue what I am talking about. Prove me wrong by explaining what my reference to opposing muscle groups and tension, was about.
    OPTIMAL? You just said "play in a bad position". bad is the new optimal?

    It's nice, isnt it? misinterpitation my message and then telling me I don't have a clue?
    Last edited by hed_b94; 03-29-2011 at 01:52 PM.

  49. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by hed_b94 View Post
    OPTIMAL? You just said "play in a bad position". bad is the new optimal?
    You flunk reading comprehension. It's still going over your head.

  50. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    You flunk reading comprehension. It's still going over your head.
    Maybe I am missing something from your older posts, but I think I do get it, you just don't understand that I'm not agreeing with the things you say. If it's still 'over my head' would you mind explaining it?

    And just so you can prove you DO understand my references, what did I refer to and what was the point of my last two msgs?
    Last edited by hed_b94; 03-29-2011 at 05:37 PM.

  51. #100

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    I have gotten back to playing finger style with my jazz box (rounds 13-56). I can tell you at my lessons that I get massively reprimanded (and rightly so) for my my sloppy right hand technique at my lessons--- #1 lesson that gets repeated --"un-necessary and wasteful motion is the enemy of the guitarist!"

    I have really slowed down my scales to make sure that that I truly alternate p-i and I-m, particularly when crossing strings. the other big technical issue with my string crossing I have to make sure that the hand properly "opens up" when I go across the strings, so I'm not "reaching" for a note and I always maintain proper shape. I am humble enough to recognize that I need to solve a ton of technical mistakes with my right hand, that practicing improperly and inefficiently makes one internalize making mistakes as normal.

    Its gonna take a lot of work to establish true finger dexterity, movement and independence. BUt in order to do that , I have to practice correctly and really work on correct technique.