Time After Time - Jazz Ballads by Jeff Arnold - Tune #2

[Liarspoker]

This is tune #2 of the study group which is going through Jeff Arnold's book Jazz Ballads.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jazz-Ballad...s%2C129&sr=8-1

There is also a free PDF online which you can download but it would be fair to support the author and buy either the paperback or Kindle version of the book.

The aim is to play the tune as written in the book.

Imo the most interesting part of the tune, like Here's That Rainy Day, is the tag.

Here is the Here's That Rainy Day thread. Rainy Day was the first tune that we covered from the book.

We will aim to have Time After Time recorded by midnight, Sunday 23rd June as we'll start the next tune on Monday 24th June.

[alpop]

I started in on this today and played the first half quite easily. This arrangement seems less challenging from a physical standpoint than Rainy Day.

My goal with these arrangements is to get them fluid as written and then embellish once I've got them.

For me there is value in learning another person's approach and then incorporating their ideas into my own way of doing things.

Just speaking for myself mind you.

Looking forward to hearing some submissions. Anyone who found the first piece daunting should give this one a try!

[Liarspoker]

Hey alpop, yes, at the moment I can play through the piece at a slow metronome setting (low to mid 40's).

It's the tag that's holding me back from playing the piece, in time, faster. I'll do some serious meditation on those chords.

Classical guitarists play a lot of etudes and pieces from other players so surely it would be good for us to do the same.

Unfortunately the ending for TAT isn't as nice as the one for Rainy Day. The only thing that I'll steal from TAT are some new chord shapes.

Perhaps once we have, say, 5 tunes done it might be nice to play and record them again with embellishments. That would be a great exercise in going from intermediate to advanced.

Anyway Mick mentioned tempo. I guess that we should play TAT at the speed that we sing it at? I tried 90 bpm this morning and that was faster than I hear the tune.

Let's make each take musical!!

[Mick-7]

"It's the tag that's holding me back from playing the piece, in time, faster."

Those 5 note chords need trimming, for speed I want 4 chord tones max. You may have seen Barney Kessel improvise with triads at a brisk tempo, that sort of approach.

[alpop]

I've played this tune in the past in a combo (drums, bass, tenor, and guitar) with a vocalist, and we played it around 160 for quarter notes.

For myself, for solo guitar, it's unlikely that I could get anywhere near that.

I have some time today, so I will dig into that coda section

[Liarspoker]

Whoo, 160 quarters is pretty fast alright. Maybe something along the lines of Tim's version?

[alpop]

Whoo, 160 quarters is pretty fast alright. Maybe something along the lines of Tim's version?

Yes that moves along nicely. That man has groove/swing in his soul. Around 100 or so?

Something to shoot for.

I have investigated the coda on our piece, and about 4 bars in I hit a road block that will require some isolated practice. That Am7 to Am7/G to F#m7b5 part. Rats!

[Liarspoker]

That's the part. It's nice to meditate on

[Liarspoker]

That Am7 to Am7/G to F#m7b5 part. Rats!

I find it handy to keep me first finger on the C note, 8th fret, high E string, when changing from Am7/G to F#m7b5.

Isolated practise indeed but we'll get there.

[Mick-7]

I don't like many of his chord choices or combinations - e.g., voicings on the bass strings that sound muddy.

Here are chords I'd choose instead for the Coda, which will preserve the descending bass line, in this case: C-(B)-A-(G#or G)-F#-F-E.
Attachment 112866

[lawson-stone]

Here is measures 1-16 of the tune, played a bit on the stiff side.

[Mick-7]

Here is measures 1-16 of the tune, played a bit on the stiff side.

Sounds good, Lawson.... and I'm glad you didn't transpose it to a minor key.

By the way, are we allowed to play these arrangements slowly and then speed them up a la Les Paul?

[alpop]

Here is measures 1-16 of the tune, played a bit on the stiff side.

Nicely done. I like your sound.

I never thought of submitting a "progress report". Maybe I will do the same. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to handle that much of the tune.

It's the coda where my fingers don't want to obey the messages that my brain is sending them, so I am still working on that bit.

[lawson-stone]

Nicely done. I like your sound.

I never thought of submitting a "progress report". Maybe I will do the same. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to handle that much of the tune.

It's the coda where my fingers don't want to obey the messages that my brain is sending them, so I am still working on that bit.

All the study groups I ever participated in we posted progress reports because it kept the momentum for the group going. The Jimmy Raney group the material was so challenging we did 4 measures per week! But I ended up going through 8 of the 10 solos in the book we used (Aebersold Jimmy Raney). It also can be encouraging to hear a post and think "Hey I can do that..."

[lawson-stone]

Sounds good, Lawson.... and I'm glad you didn't transpose it to a minor key.

By the way, are we allowed to play these arrangements slowly and then speed them up a la Les Paul?

Thanks. Can't wait to see yours!

[alpop]

All the study groups I ever participated in we posted progress reports because it kept the momentum for the group going. The Jimmy Raney group the material was so challenging we did 4 measures per week! But I ended up going through 8 of the 10 solos in the book we used (Aebersold Jimmy Raney). It also can be encouraging to hear a post and think "Hey I can do that..."

Yep, it's a great idea. I like the aspect of keeping momentum for the thread, and encouraging others to post. It can be daunting to get a whole piece together, and feel that you have to wait until you've mastered it to participate.

If time allows, I'll send in my first 16 bars as well.

[Liarspoker]

Nicely done Lawson and thanks for posting!

Unfortunately my progress report is that I hurt my picking hand middle fingering this morning trying to catch my phone when it fell

Specifically I hurt the nail and it hurts to pick with that finger for the moment. Hopefully I'll be back in action very soon.

The idea of progress videos is a good one however I'm not too keen on hosting it on my personal YT channel where I have posted the Rainy Day ones. I'll see if I can find an older channel that I had.

I took need to spend more time on the coda then once I have the weakest link ironed out I can concentrate on the whole tune.

[lawson-stone]

Yep, it's a great idea. I like the aspect of keeping momentum for the thread, and encouraging others to post. It can be daunting to get a whole piece together, and feel that you have to wait until you've mastered it to participate.

If time allows, I'll send in my first 16 bars as well.

It also allows us to catch mistakes. I hear someone playing it and at some point it sounds different from mine, it prompts me to check my fingering. I actually don't read tab that well, and am only a so-so notation reader, so I always have a mistake or two in there. The ear knows.

I've worked over the second half a few times now and I think I have the concept he's working on with that part. My real problem is that I am not as familiar with this tune as I am of others. I actually couldn't sing the basic tune if someone asked me, so I don't know exactly how it goes. So I'm playing a backing track and just trying to learn the changes and the melody line, which is helping.

For me, these groups are all about the posts. No posts, no music, and it's just talk.

[alpop]

Liarspoker: Sorry to hear of your nail mishap.

Regarding the issue of posting a work-in-progress to your YouTube channel, what I do is publish my work vids on an Unlisted basis. That way it doesn't show up to the public on your channel. It can only be accessed if you send someone (e.g. this thread) the link.


Lawson: Agreed, study groups should be posting threads. There are lots of theory threads here if you just want to talk.


Mick: All you need is a cell phone and a YouTube channel and you're good to go. That is all I use for stuff like this. The audio quality is not that great but good enough for these purposes IMO. You sound like an experienced player who has given lots of thought to the study of jazz guitar. Would love to hear you play.

[Mick-7]

Well, I will get my Zoom recorder going this weekend or try something else, just think I'd be dissatisfied with cell phone audio quality.

Arnold's ending is too abrupt, here's my final series of chords (after his G7b5), the last Cmaj9 is optional.

[Liarspoker]

Well, I will get my Zoom recorder going this weekend or try something else, just think I'd be dissatisfied with cell phone audio quality.

Arnold's ending is too abrupt, here's my final series of chords (after his G7b5), the last Cmaj9 is optional.

Hmmm, aren't these the 5 note chords that you didn't like earlier in the thread ( or was it the Rainy Day thread ).

I dunno. Like I said before I could wax lyrical all day too but, like both Lawson and alpop have said, this is a playing thread.

Would love to see you play the Jeff Arnold arrangement of Rainy Day or Time After Time which is what this study group is about.

[Mick-7]

Hmmm, aren't these the 5 note chords that you didn't like earlier in the thread ( or was it the Rainy Day thread ).

The ending would be played slowly. I was talking about playing large chord voicings up-tempo before. Besides, not all large chords are created equal, barre chords can often be played quickly a la Barney Kessel, but Arnold's arrangements contain many voicings that cannot be played fast - at least not without a lot of practice. If I was into performance art (perfecting arrangements) I'd be playing classical rather than jazz guitar.

[lawson-stone]

The ending would be played slowly. I was talking about playing large chord voicings up-tempo before. Besides, not all large chords are created equal, barre chords can often be played quickly a la Barney Kessel, but Arnold's arrangements contain many voicings that cannot be played fast - at least not without a lot of practice. If I was into performance art (perfecting arrangements) I'd be playing classical rather than jazz guitar.

Jazz is still performance art, it's just a different kind of performance. I have been playing chord melody style jazz guitar for a good 35 years now, starting out on some pretty hard stuff, and I don't think his chords are especially hard. They are also all very transportable ideas. You could easily pick out, for example, all the ii-V-I passages and compile a nice set of ways to negotiate that progression chordally.

The point is to play the things and learn them well enough to extract some good ideas for the rest of our playing.

We need less talk and analysis, and more posting of playing. Without that, these study groups just die out.

[Mick-7]

"I don't think his chords are especially hard."

Yes, I'm not seeing much that's difficult in this arrangement, may have been thinking of Here's that Rainy Day. But if one wants to play it at a faster tempo, some of the contrapuntal bass lines and voice leading will have to go. I prefer rhythmic and melodic variety to contrapuntal invention, didn't like the Tim Lerch arrangement for that reason, it did not swing.

[alpop]

Here's my first 16 bars:

I haven't memorized it yet so I'm still looking at the notation for support.