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Hi, all. Glad to be here.
Playing a melody in thirds, fourths, and various intervals is something I'm very interested in doing. However, I'm really just guessing and winging it whenever I try it.
Are there books or videos which explain the exact way to harmonize major, minor, modal scales as thirds and cadence fourths, both ascending and descending (because I discover that resolving a melody might require either a third or a fourth, depending in which direction the melody is ending up.)
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04-28-2024 09:38 PM
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Sorry, what are cadence fourths?
On the face of it, just practice your scales in intervals. Pick one a week and do 15m a day, maybe?
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Probably the 4th that shows up in cadential 6 4 chord... but I am not sure
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
- basically a 4th below the root where a 3rd does not work harmonically
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This I doubt because there's rarely an exact way to do anything. How it hears to the player/listener is more important. Originally Posted by lydian_dorian
You know the scale, working out the 3rds and 4ths isn't difficult. Applying them to your tune is dependent on how you want it to sound.
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Seems like this would just be a "let your ears be the guide" thing, but I'm sure somebody's tried to make money off of it via book.
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This video (starting at 7:40) discusses somewhat what I'm trying to figure out, though I want to learn more about it in a more formal (music theory) way, not just memorizing it as a lick or pattern:
Playing and composing a melody as two notes at once, using major scale, all the minor scales, diminished, etc.
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Another example.
This classical guitarist has arranged the start of Bach's Canon in D playing two notes at once (have to click onto youtube to watch it):
There has to be some harmonized two-notes scale exercises and theory books out there.
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No, I don't want to guess about how to do this anymore. I've spent a lifetime of time-wasting noodling on the guitar trying to "figure things out" and memorizing licks. Extremely unsatisfying and frustrating. Looking for material which formally discusses how to construct two-note melodies in a logical, music theory way.
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Yes, that's what I was trying to say Originally Posted by Jonah
Probably the 4th that shows up in cadential 6 4 chord... but I am not sure - basically a 4th below the root where a 3rd does not work harmonically
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Well I'm not suggesting just noodle. You could go about this very systematically, but I'm saying your ears will need to be the final decision maker on whether a third or fourth sounds better. Originally Posted by lydian_dorian
The concept here is relatively simple, but also open-ended, still certainly something you could work out without a book. The first step, as Christian mentioned, is simply to practice scales harmonized with different intervals. The next thing is to make the necessary adjustments should the harmony of the tune contain chords that are non-diatonic. Assuming you want to do this in a jazz context, that will be important.
However if you're looking for a book, give this thread a few hours, I'm sure someone here knows of something.
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How dare you. Originally Posted by lydian_dorian
Pachelbel's Canon. Bach would never ....
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It looks like you're looking for something a bit prescriptive ... so here you go ... Originally Posted by lydian_dorian
The guy in the video (at 7:40 anyway) is playing a scale in 6ths. Start there.
Thirds and sixths are by far the most common intervals in this sort of thing (actually maybe 10ths moreso than 3rds, but 3rds will be easier to get going probably), being both consonant and representative of the quality of the chord. Play them the way he does, up a single set of strings. Try different keys and all the available string sets. Stick with major scales. The others are cool, but major is the bread and butter.
Once you feel comfortable with the sets of strings, try combining so that you're able to work through more of the full range.
After that, getting into 10ths (thirds, plus an octave) and octaves is probably the move.
2nds, 4ths, 5ths, and 7ths, aren't terribly common except in passing. So you'll see those intervals, but usually in moving from one more consonant interval to another.
That's a start and probably enough work to keep anyone busy for half a lifetime.
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I need to make a video on basic chord melody.
What the others said. You don't need a book. All you do is take the melody on top and insert the interval (or chord inversion) below that fits either the key, or the changes if they deviate from the key. Extremely simple. This is not guesswork. This is how my teacher, Tony Monaco who is a great, taught me the most basic method to approach chord melody.
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I always liked how "country" players could harmonize the melody of tunes in intervals.
And play out of tune intervals.
As Jimmy Smith said above. Start with a basic melody and experiment with intervals below the melody.
There is this guy Wes who found one interval he really liked...
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lydian_dorian -
Would you mind showing us what the melody is that you want to harmonise? Is it well known or one of yours?
Also, what style is it in? I'm asking because the guy in your video at 7.40 is playing sixths in what sounds like a country-type way. So the style is going to dictate what intervals you use.
Don't forget this is a jazz forum and these guys can theory you till your brain bleeds. But if all you're asking is how to make a fairly simple tune prettier then really it's no big deal. First play the tune without intervals and you should be able to hear when you need an extra boost on it and of what kind.
So let's hear the melody and I'll show you how you can do it. And it won't be difficult or a question of memorising anything, it's just a matter of what suits.
Incidentally, if you don't actually have a melody yet then you must find one. You'll only learn this by applying intervals to something concrete. You won't learn it by wallowing in a lot of abstract theory. So find a tune if you don't already have one.
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My hero. Originally Posted by ragman1
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It’s money in the bank! I should have done it earlier. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Be methodical and thorough. It’s not noodling. It’s hard, focussed work.
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Guitar players DO really like books. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I'm working on a follow up to my hit "Tuning the Guitar (Beginner to Advanced Techniques)"
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Start with parallel 3rds, 6th, 10ths, 13th. All keys, all positions. Originally Posted by lydian_dorian
Do it now. Start with C major today. Do G major tomorrow. And so on. 15 minutes.
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Jinx Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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They do don’t they? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I quite like writing vast tracts of verbiage.
I should ca$h in.
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You're good with words. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I'm actually (for real) working on an idea I came up with a few years ago, "Everything You Need to Get Started With Jazz Guitar."
It's going to be a pamphlet.
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Do it. I would totally GoFundMe that. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Learn and analyse solo on Your Bird Can Sing ( I think it’s double track, don’t believe Harrison could play it so smoothly in 3rds alone)No, I don't want to guess about how to do this anymore. I've spent a lifetime of time-wasting noodling on the guitar trying to "figure things out" and memorizing licks. Extremely unsatisfying and frustrating. Looking for material which formally discusses how to construct two-note melodies in a logical, music theory way.
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Yknow, it’s not a book but Alex Goodman has a My Music Masterclass on intervallic stuff. It’s on contrary motion and focuses on diminished stuff, so you’d need a lot of the stuff me and Christian already mentioned to make head or tails of it, but it’s very interesting . Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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