Reverb for chord-melody?

**blackcat** · 03-11-2024, 10:20 AM

Wondering if there is common ground in this department in the matter of reverb. Not wanting to go into 'chiming' territory, much as I love Ted Greene's playing, but would love some enhancement of tone. Using a DV Mark Little Jazz and as we all know, the reverb is less than optimal after the mid point.

All ideas gratefully acknowledged/received.

David

**mr. beaumont** · 03-11-2024, 10:23 AM

I like reverb. A little too much. I try to use it just to mimic playing in a room with good acoustics...but sometimes I like it as an effect, too.

Generally, for solo guitar, too much makes things muddy for my playing...Ted Greene was able to get around that...that pesky "being great" thing.

**sgosnell** · 03-11-2024, 10:57 AM

I like some reverb, but just a tiny bit. I try to set it where I can barely tell that it's present, and if it's obvious, I turn it down. Usually it's difficult to dial it in, because turning the knob just enough to feel that it moved goes from too little to too much. Everyone has a different opinion on how much is too much, though.

**AllanAllen** · 03-11-2024, 12:15 PM

Little to no reverb for me. A tiny bit sounds like you're in the room, too much is a cave. Listen to Joe Pass Virtuoso, that's the right amount of space.

**deacon Mark** · 03-11-2024, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by blackcat

Wondering if there is common ground in this department in the matter of reverb. Not wanting to go into 'chiming' territory, much as I love Ted Greene's playing, but would love some enhancement of tone. Using a DV Mark Little Jazz and as we all know, the reverb is less than optimal after the mid point.

All ideas gratefully acknowledged/received.

David

I am probably one of the few guitarist who really did not find Ted Greene all that listenable. He certainly was a great player with a big heart I know but his sound and sense of not really swinging as a played never appeal my taste. Reverb is great in small increments.

**blackcat** · 03-11-2024, 01:20 PM

Thanks Jeff.

David

**blackcat** · 03-11-2024, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by deacon Mark

I am probably one of the few guitarist who really did not find Ted Greene all that listenable. He certainly was a great player with a big heart I know but his sound and sense of not really swinging as a played never appeal my taste. Reverb is great in small increments.

Thanks Deacon,

Entirely agree - almost indigestion. Pretty and complex but too much going on for me.

David

**blackcat** · 03-11-2024, 01:23 PM

So that would make the DV Mark on board sound just about right?

Thanks,

David

**blackcat** · 03-11-2024, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

I like some reverb, but just a tiny bit. I try to set it where I can barely tell that it's present, and if it's obvious, I turn it down. Usually it's difficult to dial it in, because turning the knob just enough to feel that it moved goes from too little to too much. Everyone has a different opinion on how much is too much, though.

So how do we all react to this guy's sound?

Madeul Plays Guitar - YouTube

**sgosnell** · 03-11-2024, 01:28 PM

IMO the DV Mark onboard reverb sounds okay, as long as it's kept very low. I don't like any reverb at a high level, but that's me. At barely perceptible levels, the DV Mark reverb is about as good as most other amp reverbs I've heard at similar levels.

**AllanAllen** · 03-11-2024, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by blackcat

So how do we all react to this guy's sound?

Madeul Plays Guitar - YouTube

He's a forum member, I think he plays great. The saturation and reverb complement each other nicely.

**rpjazzguitar** · 03-11-2024, 02:15 PM

I always play with reverb. I use a semi with a block, not an archtop. No reverb usually sounds too dry.

I have the LJ and use the reverb around 9 o'clock. But, I add more with a pedalboard, an ME70 with the reverb setting around 20, depending on the room.

**blackcat** · 03-11-2024, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by AllanAllen

He's a forum member, I think he plays great. The saturation and reverb complement each other nicely.

Agreed - very pleasant. Interestingly, there is little about him on YT. Perhaps he may reveal himself to us?

**blackcat** · 03-11-2024, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

I always play with reverb. I use a semi with a block, not an archtop. No reverb usually sounds too dry.

I have the LJ and use the reverb around 9 o'clock. But, I add more with a pedalboard, an ME70 with the reverb setting around 20, depending on the room.

Pretty well where I find myself. No problem with that, but would perhaps like a bit more 'spaciality' in there. Touch of delay (pedal) perhaps?

**pauln** · 03-11-2024, 03:09 PM

If you are using a Fender tube amp...

The problem is that the usable reverb level for Jazz is a little place between "1" and "2" on the Reverb knob. That's the "ambiance" range below the splashy reverb sound.

The reverb driver is a 12AT7 tube with two triodes in the glass, both used in parallel to produce a 1 watt signal input to the reverb tank. The output from the tank goes to another 12AT7 in which one of its two triodes is used as a gain stage to recover and insert the reverb signal before the power amp stage.

You can replace either of those 12AT7 tubes with a 12AU7 which has 1/4 the gain. There is a slight difference in tone depending which place you swap it. If you ever use the Vibrato effect, you will want to make the swap at V3 (third tube from the right, looking at the back) as that is the tube before the reverb tank... putting it after the tank (V4) sounds great (I prefer it) but the result there may not provide enough to drive the optical "bug" used in the vibrato effect.

The result either way is that what the reverb knob did between 1 and 2 is now spread out over about 1 to 5 or 6, so much finer control over the ambient range, and even full up may have no "splash" at all.

Or, you can increase control, including tone and dwell, by unplugging the output of the tank where it connects to the amp chassis and using an adapter to plug that into the Normal channel input. Then plug your guitar into the Vibrato channel (now the Reverb control will have no effect) and control the reverb with the Normal channel controls - so it may now include independent volume, treble, middle, bass, and a bright switch. This allows your reverb tone to be tone shaped independently from the guitar tone.

**Markmann** · 03-11-2024, 03:40 PM

I agree. A little reverb goes a long way and too much sounds horrible. Live I use just enough to add some ambience but I use more when I record because I'm not getting any natural ambience from the room.

**alltunes** · 03-12-2024, 07:53 AM

Somewhere I saw Tim Lerch say he likes to “crack the reverb to just on”. I like that description. Tim uses quite a bit of neck bending too. Which adds the best pitch modulation there is in my opinion. Can’t get more natural than that. Set necks need not apply

Though Frisell did it with his SG.

Agree that many Fender reverbs have a very narrow usable range…they go from zero to over the top very quickly hence.

One of the things I love about my Headstrong Santa Cruz amp is the reverb…it has an audio taper pot to increase the sweep.

So a little reverb and a little neck bending for chord melody is my recipe.

**SoftwareGuy** · 03-12-2024, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by blackcat

Wondering if there is common ground in this department in the matter of reverb.

All ideas gratefully acknowledged/received.

David

I think no, there is no common ground.

I like reverb on the right song. Some songs have a busy melody and subtle chords. Reverb can cause that to get lost. Some songs have space and reverb can add some depth.

I have an RV-500 from Boss and it has lots of ability to adjust the sound. In fact, you can't really get the best sound without reading the manual and navigating a menu system.

I have a crate acoustic amp from the late 90s and it has a built-in reverb. It sounds bad.

But modern digital reverb is much better.

**omphalopsychos** · 03-13-2024, 01:07 PM

Thing about reverb is you have to set it so it's out of the way. I usually have a relatively long decay on the reverb but keep the level super low so it's really just adding a hint of artificial room acoustics.

Also depends what you mean by "chord melody". Some players do a lot of block chords under every melody note. You see this style both in swing and bebop chord melody players. A lot of others do very washy, rubato chord melody with lots of harmonics and extensions and extra beats etc. Other players just try to play the melody and punctuate with chords (and sometimes support melody notes with harmony) to make it a solo performance. I'm not sure I'd want a lot of reverb under a bunch of block chords, but both the rubato stuff and the single note stuff work well with reverb since it helps provide some content to all the space in the arrangement.

**ruger9** · 03-13-2024, 01:42 PM

I don't think there's an "answer" here, it's all personal preference. Jim Campilongo sometimes uses alot of reverb for his style of "jazz", and it sounds fantastic.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-13-2024, 01:55 PM

At home whatever pleases you at the moment.

On the gig, always remember there are often expectations. So I wouldn't pull out my best Jim Campilongo impersonation at the local pasta house.

If you get a gig where there are no expectations, pat yourself on the back and enjoy it.

**ruger9** · 03-13-2024, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

At home whatever pleases you at the moment.

On the gig, always remember there are often expectations. So I wouldn't pull out my best Jim Campilongo impersonation at the local pasta house.

If you get a gig where there are no expectations, pat yourself on the back and enjoy it.

I would, altho I get your point, if you're playing all the old standards, people will feel more familiar with the "jazz tone" on the dry side, because that's what everybody does. I'm all for personal expression, it's how we get guys like Campilongo and Lage... they do what THEY like, they built their own sound on it.

All that to say, if you like reverb, use it. If you really like it, use a little more. Maybe don't go into surf territory (unless you play a surf tune!)

**mr. beaumont** · 03-13-2024, 02:44 PM

Yeah, I'm talking about the musical wallpaper gig...incidental music. Not the time for self-expression...at least not any that would disturb someone's Osso Buco.

**deacon Mark** · 03-13-2024, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by ruger9

I don't think there's an "answer" here, it's all personal preference. Jim Campilongo sometimes uses alot of reverb for his style of "jazz", and it sounds fantastic.

Different ears like different things and taste. I am not crazy about the sound here or the style. It is just me no reflection on the guitar player or ability. The solo sound that Martin Taylor gets I like and the sound on the original Joe Pass Virtuoso recording.

**AllanAllen** · 03-13-2024, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by ruger9

I would, altho I get your point, if you're playing all the old standards, people will feel more familiar with the "jazz tone" on the dry side, because that's what everybody does. I'm all for personal expression, it's how we get guys like Campilongo and Lage... they do what THEY like, they built their own sound on it.

All that to say, if you like reverb, use it. If you really like it, use a little more. Maybe don't go into surf territory (unless you play a surf tune!)

This is a rookie mistake with surf music, while the records have reverb, you need to play live without it.