Reverb for chord-melody?

[sgosnell]

There's plenty of reverb there. Maybe not heard as much from a distance, but the reverb is definitely in use.

[ruger9]

This is a rookie mistake with surf music, while the records have reverb, you need to play live without it.

Oh, IDK...

[AllanAllen]

There's plenty of reverb there. Maybe not heard as much from a distance, but the reverb is definitely in use.

I thought it was from the hall itself, not the reverb unit. Either way, Ruger9 came in with that Dick Dale clip and destroyed my argument.

[Tim Clark]

I don't think there's an "answer" here, it's all personal preference. Jim Campilongo sometimes uses alot of reverb for his style of "jazz", and it sounds fantastic.

I love Jim's sound, and he uses plenty of tremolo, too. To me, tremolo gives any note beautiful motion and I use it often. Very unjazzy, I guess, but think Pop Staples and John Fogerty...

[GordonM]

Reverb isn't a simple Yes/No.
There's Reverb Level and Reverb Time.
Some music needs a higher level with a short time, some music needs a low level but a longer time.
No reverb at all, especially at home, sounds boring, you set the levels according to the music and the location that you're playing in.

[JazzerEU]

My musical identity during my professional career prior my retirement in 2020 was and still is chord melody and improvising chord solos à la Wes Montgomery. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I used reverb on a gig. I always preferred a tight and clean sound and found that reverb distracted me and muddied my tone. YMMV. I primarily used a Deluxe Reverb style amp, so the times I used reverb, it was minimal as that amp circuit has A TON of reverb on tap.

[pauln]

If you have a Fender reverb two channel amp, you can mimic the studio effect called "ducking reverb" (that is reverb that is only heard in the tails after and spaces between notes - when you play it "ducks" out).

The way to do this is to take advantage of the independent volume controls of the two channels. First you "jumper" the channels so your guitar inputs to the Normal channel and patches from the Normal's unused output to the Vibrato channel input...

Normal (1) (2) Vibratro (1) (2) ... call these inputs N1 N2 V1 V2

Plug guitar into:
N1 and patch between N2 and either V1 or V2
N2 and patch between N1 and either V1 or V2

This makes the Normal channel the voice of your guitar. Once your level is established through the Normal channel, bring up volume and reverb level of the Vibrato channel. With ducking, your guitar voice channel is at least one volume knob number louder than the reverb channel - enough that the reverb is masked by the guitar voice channel and phase cancellation is absent.

The result is a very clear guitar voice with a reverb that is not heard until there is no guitar sound, a very "smart" and well behaved reverb who's tone you may shape independently of the guitar voice channel tone.

Leo was brilliant; there are many ways the multiple inputs can be used for lots of very practical purposes. Old timers used the number 2 inputs for sound check because they are -6dB relative to the louder number 1 inputs (that they switched to for the show).

[MadeulPlaysGuitar]

So how do we all react to this guy's sound?

Madeul Plays Guitar - YouTube

Yikes, it gave me quite a start to see my name mentioned here! Thankfully I don’t see any soul-crushing critique here yet…

Ideally I would love to be someone who sounds good without compression or reverb. But I find myself ramping those things higher and higher, because they do help both (1) paper over imperfections, of which there are many, and (2) optimize the sound for the recording/listening environments that are “dry” on one end (line out without access to room characteristics) and of narrow dynamic range on the other. Again, maybe that’s a crutch, but that helps me approximate the kind of sound I hear in my head.

I think, like many things, that the threshold is when you start hearing the reverb without trying to — then maybe you want to turn it down. That is, unless you want the reverb to be part of your sound profile (Ted Greene has already been mentioned; for a non-jazz example, Khruangbin’s Mark Speer comes to mind).

When I practice by myself, I use an MXR Carbon Copy pedal to mimic reverb and color my Fender Rumble bass amp that does not have onboard effects.

[Hyppolyte Bergamotte]

Follow only the sound you have in your head and too bad if other people don’t like

[Marc Grossman]

IMO music should be played as cleanly, clearly, and precisely as possible. IMO devices that alter tone should be kept to a minimum, particularly for something like chord melody.

To me, Joe DeNisco achieves the perfect sound for chord melody. He has great skill and taste too. I also like the sounds and playing of Chris Whiteman, David Rourke, and Matt Otten.

I use just a touch of reverb. I turn it down to just above the point where i can no longer hear the reverb.

I set the reverb on my DV Mark Jazz 12 to 3 (25%) for all my guitars. I have the Little Jazz too, but haven't used it in a real long time and don't remember what reverb I used. I will have to check it out.

IMO, a lot of Jazz guitarists also roll off on the guitar's tone control too much when playing. I think reducing the treble kills the clarity of the instrument. I never go below full tone (and full volume) on the guitar.

Although I admire the talent and knowledge of Ted G., I don't really like his sound for chord melody. Ditto Jim Camp.
I really don't get why a lot of reverb would be used for chord melody.

[Hyppolyte Bergamotte]

. IMO music should be played as cleanly, clearly, and precisely as possible. IMO devices that alter tone should be kept to a minimum, particularly for something like chord melody.

not really my opinion.
If you try to attract young people to play jazz, there’s no point scaring them away saying:”cut all your pedal effects.”
the only result will be to disgust them and they never come
again..

[ruger9]

not really my opinion.
If you try to attract young people to play jazz, there’s no point scaring them away saying:”cut all your pedal effects.”
the only result will be to disgust them and they never com again..

Music is art. Art is expression. No "neat little boxes" need apply.

[AllanAllen]

Music is art. Art is expression. No "neat little boxes" need apply.

Piet Mondrian would like a word with you, he's already removed his overcoat outside.

[ruger9]

Piet Mondrian would like a word with you, he's already removed his overcoat outside.

I knew nothing of him, had to look him up. Still know nothing of him, other than he seemed to be a very tight-anus guy LOL

[Hyppolyte Bergamotte]

Mr Marc Grossman,

tell me how to do with young people playing rock and pop music and curious about jazz if you ask them to give up immediately their favourite pedals effects ??

[johny_gtr]

When I play at home usually I have a simple setup Guitar->tuner->booster->(highly modified) Fender Princeton Reverb.
This amp has both spring reverb and tremolo that add a little to the chords on the top. I prefer reverb at 1.5-2 and tremelo at 3.

From my other musical hobby - analog synths, I have(d) several pedals/racks. I choose these pedals as fine for adding some space and not being too artificial:
1) Neunaber Wet Reverb - simple, sounds great
2) Meris Mercury X - too complicated, but many emulated sounds from spring to hall to room to plate. You can also add some other effects, but it's more ECM style of jazz and maybe some guys like Jakob Bro could use it
3) Axe-Fx 2/3 (rack) - it's a rack processor that emulated many reverbs on the top level (and IIRC tried to get the idea from old Lexicon devices)
4) OTO Bam - desktop based but very warm and easy to find a proper sound.
Spring emulation pedals could sound too surfy for a traditional jazz sound. UA Golden pedal could be closer to Fender amp reverb but not so tasty as devices I mentioned before.

It could be out of simplicity but it's worth to have EQ on the reverb pedal because 1) sometimes you like to give some space only for top frequencies (or vice versa) or 2) you play in trio and need to remove some mud from low end

[DawgBone]

If you are using a Fender tube amp...

The problem is that the usable reverb level for Jazz is a little place between "1" and "2" on the Reverb knob. That's the "ambiance" range below the splashy reverb sound.

The reverb driver is a 12AT7 tube with two triodes in the glass, both used in parallel to produce a 1 watt signal input to the reverb tank. The output from the tank goes to another 12AT7 in which one of its two triodes is used as a gain stage to recover and insert the reverb signal before the power amp stage.

You can replace either of those 12AT7 tubes with a 12AU7 which has 1/4 the gain. There is a slight difference in tone depending which place you swap it. If you ever use the Vibrato effect, you will want to make the swap at V3 (third tube from the right, looking at the back) as that is the tube before the reverb tank... putting it after the tank (V4) sounds great (I prefer it) but the result there may not provide enough to drive the optical "bug" used in the vibrato effect.

The result either way is that what the reverb knob did between 1 and 2 is now spread out over about 1 to 5 or 6, so much finer control over the ambient range, and even full up may have no "splash" at all.

Or, you can increase control, including tone and dwell, by unplugging the output of the tank where it connects to the amp chassis and using an adapter to plug that into the Normal channel input. Then plug your guitar into the Vibrato channel (now the Reverb control will have no effect) and control the reverb with the Normal channel controls - so it may now include independent volume, treble, middle, bass, and a bright switch. This allows your reverb tone to be tone shaped independently from the guitar tone.

Interesting.

What you describe is why I just unhook and remove the spring tank in my Twins. Either not enough reverb or it's washed out.

The Fender stand alone reverb tank with the mix and dwell controls was a whole different deal. Perfect in every respect IMO, except for now you are basically carrying a second amp to every gig, not worth it IMO. Very neat how you describe achieving the same results using the amp alone. Thank you for sharing this.

[pauln]

Interesting.

What you describe is why I just unhook and remove the spring tank in my Twins. Either not enough reverb or it's washed out.

The Fender stand alone reverb tank with the mix and dwell controls was a whole different deal. Perfect in every respect IMO, except for now you are basically carrying a second amp to every gig, not worth it IMO. Very neat how you describe achieving the same results using the amp alone. Thank you for sharing this.

Check my later post in this thread on ducking reverb... also done with just the amp.

[alltunes]

For those with extra money:

E-verb — Ebo Customs

[AllanAllen]

I knew nothing of him, had to look him up. Still know nothing of him, other than he seemed to be a very tight-anus guy LOL

His art was literally neat little boxes. I said he’s already removed his overcoat because of his hot head, he’s already be ready to fight.

Composition with Red, Blue and Yellow - Wikipedia

[supersoul]

His art was literally neat little boxes. I said he’s already removed his overcoat because of his hot head, he’s already be ready to fight.

I agree that Piet is waiting outside, ready to throwdown. He literally ended a friendship because he believed abstract art should only use horizontal and vertical lines. Theo Van Doesburg dared to use diagonal lines.

[pauln]

Jazz is real art with or without reverb.
Let us not be distracted by the cult of
phony art paintings from last century.

[Christian Miller]

Developing polyphonic legato sustain on the guitar is challenging. That’s the main thing that the reverb pedal covers up - like the sustain pedal on the piano.

Therefore, I think one should practice this stuff without reverb, just bone dry. Hear the warts and fix them. As for the playing - the presentation - of the music, do what sounds good to you. If you sound good dry you’ll sound good with reverb.

I think people tend to view solo jazz guitar as a right hand challenge but I actually think it’s all about the left hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christian Miller]

Well I thought Allen’s joke was pretty funny


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[garybaldy]

If you have a Fender reverb two channel amp, you can mimic the studio effect called "ducking reverb" (that is reverb that is only heard in the tails after and spaces between notes - when you play it "ducks" out).

The way to do this is to take advantage of the independent volume controls of the two channels. First you "jumper" the channels so your guitar inputs to the Normal channel and patches from the Normal's unused output to the Vibrato channel input...

Normal (1) (2) Vibratro (1) (2) ... call these inputs N1 N2 V1 V2

Plug guitar into:
N1 and patch between N2 and either V1 or V2
N2 and patch between N1 and either V1 or V2

This makes the Normal channel the voice of your guitar. Once your level is established through the Normal channel, bring up volume and reverb level of the Vibrato channel. With ducking, your guitar voice channel is at least one volume knob number louder than the reverb channel - enough that the reverb is masked by the guitar voice channel and phase cancellation is absent.

The result is a very clear guitar voice with a reverb that is not heard until there is no guitar sound, a very "smart" and well behaved reverb who's tone you may shape independently of the guitar voice channel tone.

Leo was brilliant; there are many ways the multiple inputs can be used for lots of very practical purposes. Old timers used the number 2 inputs for sound check because they are -6dB relative to the louder number 1 inputs (that they switched to for the show).

I never knew what ducking reverb is. It's on my old G Dec 30 so I must try it out! Thanks
Edit: I think it's ducking delay that I've heard of. Same idea I guess.