The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Looking at some lessons, I see a recommendation to learn melody lines in multiple (or even all) keys.

    How would one going about doing that wisely? It seems like I should focus on each interval. Looking at my Realbook 'Nearness of you' in F, the opening (pickup) note is low C followed by F and G. So should I think of that as starting on the 5th and ascending to the tonic? A jump of a perfect 4th?

    As a long time classical player, and a 62 year old, I am wondering how on earth jazz players seem to do this sort of thing effortlessly. I can work it out on paper (or cheat with some software), but wow is it slow going on the guitar. I should be better about memorizing interval shapes. I've seen some live performances where the singers asks for a key change, and everyone just nods and does it. Sorcery!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevets
    Looking at some lessons, I see a recommendation to learn melody lines in multiple (or even all) keys.

    How would one going about doing that wisely? It seems like I should focus on each interval. Looking at my Realbook 'Nearness of you' in F, the opening (pickup) note is low C followed by F and G. So should I think of that as starting on the 5th and ascending to the tonic? A jump of a perfect 4th?

    As a long time classical player, and a 62 year old, I am wondering how on earth jazz players seem to do this sort of thing effortlessly. I can work it out on paper (or cheat with some software), but wow is it slow going on the guitar. I should be better about memorizing interval shapes. I've seen some live performances where the singers asks for a key change, and everyone just nods and does it. Sorcery!
    I learn the melody in one key and practice that until I have it down pat. I.e. I can play it by ear without any thinking. After that I can play the song by-ear in any other key using so called muscle memory. It is playing the chords in a different key where I have to have the chords on paper.

    PS: As Alan point out below; one needs to ask themselves what is gained by learning a song in multiple keys. Thus I recommend one just learn songs in the keys that the people one is playing with prefer. Typically that is one or two keys. E.g. the Real Book key (or original sheet music key), and one key that works for horn players.
    Last edited by jameslovestal; 11-03-2020 at 11:50 PM.

  4. #3

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    You have to ask yourself, What is your end goal?

    Are you going to lead a professional level jazz jam? Become a studio musician? Do pickup gigs with singers you don't know with no rehearsals? Then yeah learn every melody in every position.

    Otherwise just learn what you like to play, transpose when you have to and enjoy the ride.

    I feel it's better to know one song well than 5 songs poorly.

  5. #4

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    I have to do this often. Playing jazz with a vocalist in a professional band. Often the singer is not comfortable in the key and asks to take it up a fourth, or perhaps up a whole step sometimes. Usually up!

    I learn the chords by their number (rather than letter). So I learn the tune as I, VI, IIm7 V7, etc..

    For melody, it helps to learn the melody on guitar without playing any open strings. SO learn to read the music without using any open strings. Then just shift it up a certain number of frets, while sight reading the original notes. Like playing with a capo. First fret on second string is a 'C'. So just read relative to the ne nut position. Just no open strings!

    The other way is to learn the melody by ear, and remember a few key notes that start each phrase key tones (I, VI etc.), then I can just play it in any key.

  6. #5
    Reg, a long-time pro here, always talked about transposing "mechanically", at least I think that's the term he used. If you can play a melody in any of 5-7 positions (like he talks about being able to do), you simply play "as if" from another position to play another key. He talks about doing this to read down charts to double transposing-instruments.

    He always emphasized not looking at your neck constantly while playing, regardless. So, I'd imagine that's a big part. Anyway, long-term, this is one of the positive aspects of the blessing/curse of fretboard layout. This method of transposition is pretty straight forward. I'd imagine that the main bottleneck is that most of us aren't as competent at the multiple-position aspect. (His "second-finger reference" perspective of viewing the fretboard is kind of key to this. It somewhat equalizes positions longterm and makes things like this easier.)

  7. #6

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    I play piano too. And on piano you can't transpose by feel like you can on guitar.

    If I play a melody by feel on guitar I an just shift it up the neck and repeat the same pattern.

    But on piano, if you shift from C to Dflat, the fingering has to change. So you have to have ingrained all of the different feels for each key. But on guitar each key is the same!

    On guitar, if you start a melody on a note and learn it, but then start the melody on the same note, but on a different string, then your hand will need to make a different shape and feel. So you have to internalize the sound of the scale at each position so you can just hear the melody and your hand will do it regardless of what position you start on. This is what allows you to play in any key at any position.

    That is really the goal: Play in any key, and in any position. This give you real freedom.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevets
    Looking at some lessons, I see a recommendation to learn melody lines in multiple (or even all) keys.

    How would one going about doing that wisely?
    Modes

    Quote Originally Posted by kevets
    interval shapes.
    Yes, diminished REACHES. Reach in minor thirds.

  9. #8

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    I have a different view.

    You learn a melody the same way a non-musician can hum or sing a song they like. Everybody seems to be able to do this, although some are a little more accurate than others.

    Then, you need this skill: to hear a line in your mind and play it instantly, without thinking about where your fingers are.

    I think this happens when you've logged a lot of time on the instrument. But, it seems to me that it's something you can work on.

    Remember a melody - play it. Sitting in front of the TV -- play the background music. Listening to a recording -- slow it down if necessary and play it. Exercise that muscle as much as you possibly can. Mind to music.

  10. #9

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    One of the harder things is when they put a chart up that you have not seen before, and have to transpose the melody in real time.

    Chords are not as hard since they come at you slower.

    Reading melodies and transposing is a great skill, but pretty difficult.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC-Choppah
    One of the harder things is when they put a chart up that you have not seen before, and have to transpose the melody in real time.

    Chords are not as hard since they come at you slower.

    Reading melodies and transposing is a great skill, but pretty difficult.
    Concert key instrument players usually don't do this. Guitar players might want to be able to read bass clef, though. It comes up.

    Horn players can often transpose. Some can do it on Bb and Eb horns and have a three position switch in their heads for it.

  12. #11

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    Transposing on the fly might be handy as mentioned above when a vocalist is involved. It helps to consider harmonies in a relative manner. This the basis for the roman number notation:

    Roman numeral analysis - Wikipedia

    To work fluently some ear traing and awareness is required if you are predominantly a sheet reader.

    Oh, and if you have an electronic piano you can often just push the transpose button a few times . Just be aware that some music actually sounds best in a certain key.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevets
    Looking at some lessons, I see a recommendation to learn melody lines in multiple (or even all) keys.

    How would one going about doing that wisely? It seems like I should focus on each interval. Looking at my Realbook 'Nearness of you' in F, the opening (pickup) note is low C followed by F and G. So should I think of that as starting on the 5th and ascending to the tonic? A jump of a perfect 4th?

    As a long time classical player, and a 62 year old, I am wondering how on earth jazz players seem to do this sort of thing effortlessly. I can work it out on paper (or cheat with some software), but wow is it slow going on the guitar. I should be better about memorizing interval shapes. I've seen some live performances where the singers asks for a key change, and everyone just nods and does it. Sorcery!
    Scale degrees, not intervals. And lots of practice.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevets
    Looking at some lessons, I see a recommendation to learn melody lines in multiple (or even all) keys.

    How would one going about doing that wisely? It seems like I should focus on each interval. Looking at my Realbook 'Nearness of you' in F, the opening (pickup) note is low C followed by F and G. So should I think of that as starting on the 5th and ascending to the tonic? A jump of a perfect 4th?
    I sort of think this way, but I would hear the whole phrase, for melody. For harmonic accompaniment, I think of "The nearness of you" A section as starting on the I, going to IV via I7, then getting back to I via a iii-VI-ii-V. Basically the tune is about going back and forth from I to IV. With that information, you can play accompaniment for the tune in any key.

    Someone said most people could play the tune "happy birthday" in any key, the melody to a standard should be that familiar to you. If you play along with records that feature singers, almost always, you will need to play the tune in 3-4 keys. So like "Autumn In New York", Frank Sinatra, Billie Holiday and Ella all sing it in different keys. In fact, on "Ella and Louis" you get two for one because I think Ella sings it in C (maybe?) and Louis in Eb.

    I've seen some live performances where the singers asks for a key change, and everyone just nods and does it. Sorcery!
    This used to be a vaunted skill, being able to play most any standard in any key. I don't think the current gigging environment is that conducive for most people to develop this skill these days. I personally have always played things in lots of keys, but I can't say I'd regard it as a valuable professional skill in this day and age.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    You have to ask yourself, What is your end goal?

    Are you going to lead a professional level jazz jam? Become a studio musician? Do pickup gigs with singers you don't know with no rehearsals? Then yeah learn every melody in every position.

    Otherwise just learn what you like to play, transpose when you have to and enjoy the ride.

    I feel it's better to know one song well than 5 songs poorly.
    That hits the nail on the head for me. As it turns out, I'm just a hobby player (albeit for a long time) and play solo (occasionally classical duets). I was just looking at the lesson that said learn the melody in every key, and got interested in the topic. But yeah, for my chord melody, I can do what I want. I will start thinking more in terms of scale degrees and chord degrees.

    Many thanks for all of the helpful responses.

  16. #15

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    This ^!!

    That is what it boils down to in reality. Yes, lots of great suggestions above and being able to play any tune in any key and transpose as required will develop your playing tremendously.

    But, in reality, how far you need to go? For me, I don't play with singers, well actually I sing when I play guitar [acoustic folk] but that doesn't count for this discussion. My main instrument is sax and my band does not have a vocalist and I like it that way. We play jazz in the key the chart is in.

    So, in order to get the most out of practice time I don't ever bother to learn tunes in several keys any more. Used to do that years ago when I was younger and playing in some different settings but now, just not worth my time.

    Enjoy your instrument. Play what you like and work on getting better in ways that are practical for what you are doing now and likely to be doing in the near future. If you change your mind and want to become a pro or first call studio musician, that's a different story.

  17. #16

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    I'd argue the following.

    You already know the tune in every key, if you can sing it in any key. If somebody else sang/played it for you in a different key, you'd instantly know if they played a wrong chord or sang a bad note. So, I'd argue that you know the tune.

    What you don't know is how to connect your mind's ear to your fingers on the guitar.

    Can you play any melody that you think of? Can you play Happy Birthday starting on a random fret/finger/string?

    Most players, including beginners, can hear when a blues moves to the IV chord and can play that in any key.

    The goal is to have any song/chord-change be that obvious.

    That's best addressed as a matter of ear training (for those that can do it), not learning tunes in different keys.

    Rant Over. Apologies all around.