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  1. #251

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    Yeah, it's only their thing, nothing to do with real rock music. I dont even know why would something like the Dead get so popular. No one else in the world cared for sure.
    Because it wasn't just about the music. It was a spiritual communion of sorts, a gathering of the tribe (to use a well-worn cliche). This transcended any critical examination of the music itself.

    Also: They DID have some good tunes and some good jams and I wouldn't I diss any of the Dead as musicians (though John Mayer is far better than Garcia ever was). BTW, not a Dead fan (I actually walked out of the only concert of theirs I went to, at Hill in Ann Arbor),

    So what did the Deadhead say when he came down off his LSD trip?

    (wait for it...)











    Boy, does this music suck!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #252

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    The whole arguing is strange because it's on a Joe Pass thread ! I think Joe might be turning in his grave- not only was he dissed in the OP, it now turned into who was more rock, a genre he didn't care for altogether.

    (I'm only bringing it up to clear my conscious, if I ever meet up with Joe up above)
    The thread has thankfully taken a welcome turn away from the claims of the original OP.

  4. #253

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    A guy who doesn't know the difference between "the Heartbreakers" and "Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers" should probably abstain from a discussion of punk in America ...

    John
    Well I think it’s irrelevant to anyone outside the us.

    Essentially, it’s the same as Peter Frampton and baseball.

  5. #254

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    Yup, more fucked up than Sid Vicious, and years earlier... that's what makes it more "punk" ...
    I grew up (literally) down the street from CBGB and started high school in 76 a few blocks from Max's. Even though my interests were mostly in other music, that first wave of NY bands that got labelled punk were like the home-town kids making good to everybody I knew. Kids were arguing over who/what was really punk the minute the term appeared. But there's no question Patti Smith, Television, Talking Heads, and Blondie were in that wave along with the Ramones and the Heartbreakers.

    Johnny Thunders could play, write, and sing, period. He was a mess and didn't leave much recorded evidence behind. But there are some great Heartbreakers boots out there (a friend of mine is a fanatic and has a trove of them), and of course the NY Dolls were great (and Thunders was less messed up).

    John

  6. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by zdub View Post
    Because it wasn't just about the music. It was a spiritual communion of sorts, a gathering of the tribe (to use a well-worn cliche). This transcended any critical examination of the music itself.

    Also: They DID have some good tunes and some good jams and I wouldn't I diss any of the Dead as musicians (though John Mayer is far better than Garcia ever was). BTW, not a Dead fan (I actually walked out of the only concert of theirs I went to, at Hill in Ann Arbor),

    So what did the Deadhead say when he came down off his LSD trip?

    (wait for it...)











    Boy, does this music suck!
    One of the most difficult gigs I have is a teacher is biting my tongue whenever fucking Mayer is mentioned and not going to the worlds most tedious rant about who exactly he’s ripped off.

    But he has written some nice songs.

    I find it much more amusing to pretend to not know who he is. I also find it better for my rage levels. Sometimes I convince myself.

  7. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Well I think it’s irrelevant to anyone outside the us.

    Essentially, it’s the same as Peter Frampton and baseball.
    You made dismissive and ignorant comment, about a subject your largely oblivious about, but it's OK because you're English. And Frampton had a great year with Seattle in 74 ...

    John.

  8. #257

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    PiL yea! I love that band much more than Pistols.

    Looking at punk bands names throwing around I just realized I have more complex relationship with punk than simple UK vs US. In fact in general I'm not a fan of punk as it turns out... I forgot I despise Johnny Thunders, zero talent or skill even by punk standards, I don't understand what's good about Elvis Costello, Buzzcocks? meh... and so on... I'm more of a hard rock and metal guy I guess. But Ramones I can listen to forever. Go figure!
    We must have a pint if we ever meet haha. As long as we agree on PiL I can live with the rest.

  9. #258

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    You made dismissive and ignorant comment, about a subject your largely oblivious about, but it's OK because you're English. And Frampton had a great year with Seattle in 74 ...

    John.
    74 was literally the worst year in rock. His timing was good.

  10. #259

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    Quote Originally Posted by zdub View Post
    Because it wasn't just about the music. It was a spiritual communion of sorts, a gathering of the tribe (to use a well-worn cliche). This transcended any critical examination of the music itself.

    Also: They DID have some good tunes and some good jams and I wouldn't I diss any of the Dead as musicians (though John Mayer is far better than Garcia ever was). BTW, not a Dead fan (I actually walked out of the only concert of theirs I went to, at Hill in Ann Arbor),

    So what did the Deadhead say when he came down off his LSD trip?

    (wait for it...)











    Boy, does this music suck!
    HAH! I was never much of a fan either, but had a bunch of deadhead friends and heard them a lot. Saw them once, and fell asleep. Still, I respect what they were striving for and think Jerry was a pretty deep guy musically.

    John

  11. #260

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    Although Diamond Dogs had a good track on it.

  12. #261

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    HAH! I was never much of a fan either, but had a bunch of deadhead friends and heard them a lot. Saw them once, and fell asleep. Still, I respect what they were striving for and think Jerry was a pretty deep guy musically.

    John
    I thought they just when into Silicon Valley tech startups?

  13. #262

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    Huh? Where did you see Tom Petty? You think he was with those Heartbreakers? (totally different band). Johnny Thunders (original Heartbreakers) was probably more punk than all the Brit punk bands put together. He certainly wasn't "arty farty"... lol
    You are a fucking traitor to your nation.

    EDIT: Shit I should probably do smiley face, because it’s the foul year of our lord 2019 and people on the internet actually say that in earnest.

  14. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    74 was literally the worst year in rock. His timing was good.
    "Literally" in the now common usage of "not actually" ...

    John

  15. #264

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post

    Johnny Thunders could play, write, and sing, period.
    In my book that's exactly what he couldn't do, period. He was a pathetic parody of an 'underground' rock star. There are hundreds of Johnny Thunders these days polluting our aural environment in rock venues, and is part of the reason I quit the rock scene. It's my believe that's what kill the rock scene altogether in NYC, people who can't freaking play but have attitude and think they cool.

  16. #265

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    I'm reminded that Keith Jarret said Art Tatum played "too many notes."

    Interview with Keith Jarrett | DO THE M@TH

  17. #266

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    In my book that's exactly what he couldn't do, period. He was a pathetic parody of an 'underground' rock star. There are hundreds of Johnny Thunders these days polluting our aural environment in rock venues, and is part of the reason I quit the rock scene. It's my believe that's what kill the rock scene altogether in NYC, people who can't freaking play but have attitude and think they cool.
    Commercial rent killed the rock scene in NY. You know Johnny Thunders died in 1991 right? And you joined the NY rock scene when?

    John

  18. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    In my book that's exactly what he couldn't do, period. He was a pathetic parody of an 'underground' rock star. There are hundreds of Johnny Thunders these days polluting our aural environment in rock venues, and is part of the reason I quit the rock scene. It's my believe that's what kill the rock scene altogether in NYC, people who can't freaking play but have attitude and think they cool.
    Um, "attitude" is what punk was about... it certainly wasn't about musicianship... The best rock journalism ever was written about Punk bands. Writers like Lester Bangs waxing poetic about modern rebellion and the new Nihilism showed that some of the sharpest and most brilliant minds were attracted to Punk, along with the most self destructive and inarticulate people who went along for the ride. The CBGB's scene was more "pissed off" than say the Beatniks of their previous generation, and called BS like no other scene in history.

    We could do with some of that "attitude" right now dontcha think?

  19. #268

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binyomin View Post
    I'm reminded that Keith Jarret said Art Tatum played "too many notes."

    Interview with Keith Jarrett | DO THE M@TH
    Wow, that was one of the best musician interviews that I have ever read. Thanks!

    Took a while to get through it, as I kept getting diverted by cross referencing some of the content with youtube. Also came across this gem of a piece:

    Five Awkward Conversations With Paul Motian — Vinnie Sperrazza

  20. #269

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    "Literally" in the now common usage of "not actually" ...

    John
    That is Literally true

  21. #270

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    Um, "attitude" is what punk was about... it certainly wasn't about musicianship... The best rock journalism ever was written about Punk bands. Writers like Lester Bangs waxing poetic about modern rebellion and the new Nihilism showed that some of the sharpest and most brilliant minds were attracted to Punk, along with the most self destructive and inarticulate people who went along for the ride. The CBGB's scene was more "pissed off" than say the Beatniks of their previous generation, and called BS like no other scene in history.

    We could do with some of that "attitude" right now dontcha think?
    Joking aside, I think so.

    It feels a bit mid 1970s, music is very proggy, in that we have this adulation of ability and skill.

    But not many people have anything to say, which is odd. In hip hop, maybe.

    But we are trapped in a loop, really.

  22. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    But we are trapped in a loop, really.
    My feelings about this thread.

  23. #272

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    Have not read all replies but regarding America and Punk as there been any mention of The Stooges and Iggy Pop?
    ...every note has an origin and a destination...
    - Tal Farlow

  24. #273

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Joking aside, I think so.

    It feels a bit mid 1970s, music is very proggy, in that we have this adulation of ability and skill.

    But not many people have anything to say, which is odd. In hip hop, maybe.

    But we are trapped in a loop, really.
    I think it's a trap to think that "music" in a period of time can be that broadly characterized. Especially back then, the music business itself allowed for and promoted much greater diversity. It's hard for me to comment about popular music today, since I don't really listen to it, but when I browse through ye olde Fy of Spoti, I can always find something recent and good. I do think that there was about a 10-year period mid-60s through mid-70s when there was a ton of music that was very popular, AND very artistically adventurous (even transgressive), including a lot that also rawked!(tm), and I think we don't have that anymore in the realm of what's very popular. But that doesn't mean there's nothing out there. I also think that the pop-culture business has morphed into something that almost instantly coopts and neuters transgression. And plugs electrodes into our heads to power a giant computer that sucks the energy out of our brains and traps us in simulated reality ... Oh wait, I probably should't have told you about that. Gotta go. There's a guy with sunglasses at the door.

    John

  25. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    My feelings about this thread.
    But we are trapped in a loop really

  26. #275

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    This ought to bring things to a horrifying and quick halt... (We're caught in a trap...)

    <span style='font-family: "Open Sans",sans-serif'>


    Tony



  27. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    Um, "attitude" is what punk was about... it certainly wasn't about musicianship... The best rock journalism ever was written about Punk bands. Writers like Lester Bangs waxing poetic about modern rebellion and the new Nihilism showed that some of the sharpest and most brilliant minds were attracted to Punk, along with the most self destructive and inarticulate people who went along for the ride. The CBGB's scene was more "pissed off" than say the Beatniks of their previous generation, and called BS like no other scene in history.

    We could do with some of that "attitude" right now dontcha think?
    Yea of course, attitude is great, it's just when it's a cover to hide lack of any talent it's a problem. Ramones had attitude, but how Johnny Ramone played, it's a unique thing! He had the sound! Also songwriting of course.

    But I'm sorry J. Thunders had none of those. It's a joke. In NYC he has a lot of fans, but I suspect some guitarists love him because he make them feel more secure in their sh..ty playing. Oh, I have an attitude, I don't need to play well. Same with the singers. Rock scene is deader than dead in NY, I blame that bad punk. Nobody wants to listen this crap anymore.

  28. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    But we are trapped in a loop really
    Someone had to:


  29. #278

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