Solo Guitar Tune #2 - Here's That Rainy Day

**lawson-stone** · 02-17-2018, 07:40 PM

Here's Jimmy Raney doing "our tune" in a trio, medium swing. Really cool. Starts at 26:15 if the link doesn't take you directly there.

**PaulW10** · 02-18-2018, 04:54 PM

Had a tough time with the levels on this! I also pulled it into the Zoom video editor and added a little reverb and tried to trim, but then the picture and video were out of synch, so I'm back to posting the raw video!

And if anyone is wondering I'm trying to sound like raindrops with the intro and outro....it sounded better in my head!!!

**PaulW10** · 02-18-2018, 06:24 PM

Hi Everyone,

Here is my talkie video contribution!! Please see my lead sheet attachment I discuss here that is posted below. It's different than the OP lead sheet.

Also the note is a D over the Ebmaj7 chord and not an F. If you're able to stay awake through this video you'll see when I mess up

**lawson-stone** · 02-19-2018, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by PaulW10

Hi Everyone,

Here is my talkie video contribution!! Please see my lead sheet attachment I discuss here that is posted below. It's different than the OP lead sheet.

Also the note is a D over the Ebmaj7 chord and not an F. If you're able to stay awake through this video you'll see when I mess up

I really appreciated this and empathized with so much of what you said. I too learned HTRD as one of the first 2 or 3 CM tunes I tackled, having never heard it before in my life. My teacher told me that it would force me to learn some ideas that would be worthwhile in anything else I played, and he was right. Like you, I also started with the New Real Book lead sheet and actually played the tune a long time before discovering people also did it in F and also put a minor for the first chord.

All of which is to say... the reason I like this forum is that most of us don't hide behind aliases, at least not wholly so, and become acquainted with each other even if only in superficial way. I am much more interested in the thoughts and ideas of people I have some personal connection with than with some "pro" on YouTube or other less personal connection.

Plus your handling of the tune was very fine, lovely, and imminently "steal-worthy!" If I'm going to rob a man, I want to look him in the eyes! (kidding! at least about the robbing part).

We said at the start of this set of threads that we would be posting explanations and discussions of our treatments of the tunes, and I'm glad for those that do. I doubt that vanity has much to do with it (how would I know anyhow, since I'm not a mind reader). I also think people at the same level can often learn a ton from each other.

So thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and musical ideas with us.

**PaulW10** · 02-19-2018, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I really appreciated this and empathized with so much of what you said. I too learned HTRD as one of the first 2 or 3 CM tunes I tackled, having never heard it before in my life. My teacher told me that it would force me to learn some ideas that would be worthwhile in anything else I played, and he was right. Like you, I also started with the New Real Book lead sheet and actually played the tune a long time before discovering people also did it in F and also put a minor for the first chord.

All of which is to say... the reason I like this forum is that most of us don't hide behind aliases, at least not wholly so, and become acquainted with each other even if only in superficial way. I am much more interested in the thoughts and ideas of people I have some personal connection with than with some "pro" on YouTube or other less personal connection.

Plus your handling of the tune was very fine, lovely, and imminently "steal-worthy!" If I'm going to rob a man, I want to look him in the eyes! (kidding! at least about the robbing part).

We said at the start of this set of threads that we would be posting explanations and discussions of our treatments of the tunes, and I'm glad for those that do. I doubt that vanity has much to do with it (how would I know anyhow, since I'm not a mind reader). I also think people at the same level can often learn a ton from each other.

So thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and musical ideas with us.

Wow thank you for the very kind words Lawson. It's the highest compliment to hear that someone of your ability would want to steal something I played. I really appreciate that thought!

And you're right about the interactions on these threads. We had discussed that we would be posting discussions about our treatment of the tunes etc. It's like we're all sitting in a room talking about it. What's the possible harm in that?

I really do like hearing and seeing the people involved here. For people keeping themselves totally anonymous from the group, I'm holding out for the possibility that one of them may turn out to actually be Paul McCartney or another one of my heroes

Wouldn't that be something!!

**lawson-stone** · 02-19-2018, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by PaulW10

Wow thank you for the very kind words Lawson. It's the highest compliment to hear that someone of your ability would want to steal something I played. I really appreciate that thought!

And you're right about the interactions on these threads. We had discussed that we would be posting discussions about our treatment of the tunes etc. It's like we're all sitting in a room talking about it. What's the possible harm in that?

I really do like hearing and seeing the people involved here. For people keeping themselves totally anonymous from the group, I'm holding out for the possibility that one of them may turn out to actually be Paul McCartney or another one of my heroes

Wouldn't that be something!!

the fact is, we already are rubbing shoulders with some very talented, highly accomplished players here, who just have not gotten the attention their ability merits. Also, if someone doesn't want to hear someone else talk about their playing, they don't have to click on the clip, you know?

**Gramps** · 02-19-2018, 04:07 PM

I had a chance to practice on Sunday and worked on HTRD. For some reason this song fell together faster than some of the other songs I've been exposed to on this site.

Here's a fast and sloppy version that is recorded at too low a level and has a botched ending. (How's that for a build up.)

As to people explaining there approach or observations about songs I say "Please continue". If there are people who aren't interested or have progressed to a point were they don't need it, they'll skip over it.

**lawson-stone** · 02-19-2018, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Gramps

I had a chance to practice on Sunday and worked on HTRD. For some reason this song fell together faster than some of the other songs I've been exposed to on this site.

Here's a fast and sloppy version that is recorded at too low a level. (How's that for a build up.)

As to people explaining there approach or observations about songs I say "Please continue". If there are people who aren't interested or have progressed to a point were they don't need it, they'll skip over it.

Nice and slick! You were having a just a little bit too much fun, though. Grim it down some, you know?

**PaulW10** · 02-19-2018, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Gramps

I had a chance to practice on Sunday and worked on HTRD. For some reason this song fell together faster than some of the other songs I've been exposed to on this site.

Here's a fast and sloppy version that is recorded at too low a level and has a botched ending. (How's that for a build up.)

As to people explaining there approach or observations about songs I say "Please continue". If there are people who aren't interested or have progressed to a point were they don't need it, they'll skip over it.

Nice! Wow that was from one Sunday session? Amazing that came together so quickly. Loved the changes etc.

I liked the tone of your guitar too. Sounds great!

**Gramps** · 02-19-2018, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by PaulW10

Nice! Wow that was from one Sunday session? Amazing that came together so quickly. Loved the changes etc.

I liked the tone of your guitar too. Sounds great!

2 days of practice really. A couple of hours on Saturday and all day Sunday. This song did just come together but that is due to watching the earlier versions in the thread and checking out YouTube.

I think with all the ii V's, this song will be fun to solo over. I haven't even tried that yet.

Thanks for the kind words.

**PaulW10** · 02-19-2018, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Gramps

2 days of practice really. A couple of hours on Saturday and all day Sunday. This song did just come together but that is due to watching the earlier versions in the thread and checking out YouTube.

I think with all the ii V's, this song will be fun to solo over. I haven't even tried that yet.

Thanks for the kind words.

As much as I like DOWAR...it's a beautiful song, this song here is really a great one to have as on the of our first to do as a group. It really has nice progressions that fall nicely on the guitar. I had never knowingly heard the song before until I tried to play it myself for the first time. It's fun to discover new songs like that.

**joe2758** · 02-19-2018, 11:04 PM

nice job gramps, especially liked the ending

**Gramps** · 02-20-2018, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by joe2758

nice job gramps, especially liked the ending

Thanks Joe. Moving the ii,V up a half step just came to me at the end. Unfortunately I messed up the rest of the ending but I know what I wanted to play and will hit it the next time.

I'm kind of surprised that there weren't more up tempo versions submitted.

**joe2758** · 02-20-2018, 02:56 PM

Yeah, I feel it at a slow tempo also. That's just mostly from the lyrics and my personal connection to them. I just started an arrangement and I'm feeling some pretty dissonant harmonies

**Gramps** · 02-20-2018, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

Yeah, I feel it at a slow tempo also. That's just mostly from the lyrics and my personal connection to them. I just started an arrangement and I'm feeling some pretty dissonant harmonies

Slow is the traditional way to play it and I learned it by playing slow but just couldn't bring myself to play another slow ballad.

Looking forward to hearing your dissonant version.

**PaulW10** · 02-20-2018, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

So this afternoon I got to thinking about minors in HTRD. I also sat down with the guitar and started playing with it, and at one point hit "record." That was a mistake, but not nearly as serious a mistake as hitting "upload."

Just so you will all feel even better about your own versions...kind like if Dracula had played it?

Somehow I missed watching this video, probably because I was so caught up in recording my own.

This was VERY cool Lawson. I loved the sound of those chords. Unexpected and quirky, but very interesting to the ear. Very creative. So, how did you come up with them? is there a method you used?

**PaulW10** · 02-20-2018, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Here's Jimmy Raney doing "our tune" in a trio, medium swing. Really cool. Starts at 26:15 if the link doesn't take you directly there.

That was very fun to hear. if there are any doubts about an up tempo for this song, there's the proof not to be concerned! What great tone he gets too.

**lawson-stone** · 02-21-2018, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by PaulW10

Somehow I missed watching this video, probably because I was so caught up in recording my own.

This was VERY cool Lawson. I loved the sound of those chords. Unexpected and quirky, but very interesting to the ear. Very creative. So, how did you come up with them? is there a method you used?

Actually it was just feeling my way by trial and error, a little bit of theory guiding the way. The melody has a lot of jumps in minor thirds and lots of ii-V sequences, so I just jumped in. The opening, for example, is just a tritone substitute sequence for I-vi-ii-V: G-Bb-Eb-Ab is just tritones for G-E-A-D. I realized if I used the iii for the I and "un-subbed" a little, for the opening sequence I could get Bm-Bb7-Am11-Ab, a chromatically descending bass line. Then for the Am-D7-G I could use EbMaj7 for the Am11, which is a fourth above the Ab, drop chromatically to the D7... so once you start playing with this stuff, lots of ideas start popping out. The minor-third jumps encourage also the use of parallel voicings.

Also... I was in a weird mood that day...

**PaulW10** · 02-21-2018, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Actually it was just feeling my way by trial and error, a little bit of theory guiding the way. The melody has a lot of jumps in minor thirds and lots of ii-V sequences, so I just jumped in. The opening, for example, is just a tritone substitute sequence for I-vi-ii-V: G-Bb-Eb-Ab is just tritones for G-E-A-D. I realized if I used the iii for the I and "un-subbed" a little, for the opening sequence I could get Bm-Bb7-Am11-Ab, a chromatically descending bass line. Then for the Am-D7-G I could use EbMaj7 for the Am11, which is a fourth above the Ab, drop chromatically to the D7... so once you start playing with this stuff, lots of ideas start popping out. The minor-third jumps encourage also the use of parallel voicings.

Also... I was in a weird mood that day...

I'm only mildly dangerous in theory, but this is a really good lesson for me Lawson. I think I need to think of the chords more in terms of the scale. This helps in figuring out subs like you describe here.

Some subs I really like using
1. iii for I like you mention above, especially when the melody note is the root of the I chord
2. min7 on the 5th of a 7th chord to replace the 7th (is there an easier way to describe that)?
3. Tri-tones (down or up one fret and down or up one string). I like these because they're so easy to spot on the fly and open new possibilities which then lead back to #2 as an option. These also help easily create descending bass lines (instead of moving up in 4ths).

Are there other tips and techniques people can share for substitutions etc?

**joe2758** · 02-21-2018, 02:51 PM

Here's my go-to subs:

min6 half step above a dominant chord for altered sound
min6 off the 5th of dominant chord for 9 sound
maj6 of the 5th of major chord for maj 9 (this is same as your iii7 for the 1 chord)
Dominant chords in minor thirds: for a G7: Bb7, Db7, or E7
I also use biii dim and its dominant chords for going to the ii chord or 1 chord

**PaulW10** · 02-21-2018, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

Here's my go-to subs:

min6 half step above a dominant chord for altered sound
min6 off the 5th of dominant chord for 9 sound
maj6 of the 5th of major chord for maj 9 (this is same as your iii7 for the 1 chord)
Dominant chords in minor thirds: for a G7: Bb7, Db7, or E7
I also use biii dim and its dominant chords for going to the ii chord or 1 chord

Very cool. Thanks Joe. Can't wait to get home and try these!

**joe2758** · 02-21-2018, 03:19 PM

right on man, just make sure to take those liberal dominants somewhere with good voice leading. otherwise they may not sound as viable as they really are

**PaulW10** · 02-21-2018, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

right on man, just make sure to take those liberal dominants somewhere with good voice leading. otherwise they may not sound as viable as they really are

Good advice! I only hope my ears will be able to distinguish when they're working and when they aren't!

**grahambop** · 02-21-2018, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

Here's my go-to subs:

min6 half step above a dominant chord for altered sound
min6 off the 5th of dominant chord for 9 sound
maj6 of the 5th of major chord for maj 9 (this is same as your iii7 for the 1 chord)
Dominant chords in minor thirds: for a G7: Bb7, Db7, or E7
I also use biii dim and its dominant chords for going to the ii chord or 1 chord

Barry Harris! yes I do all of those too thanks to Alan Kingstone’s book.

Also min6 a minor third above, for a min7b5.

**joe2758** · 02-21-2018, 04:47 PM

Awesome Graham; I have basically adopted Barry Harris ideas as my entire approach to harmony. I think it's a shame people describe it as being a "limited system" because they get the wrong idea about the 6-diminished scales. They learn that and think "well that doesn't cover nearly everything!" If you look at the entire system, I believe there's nothing in functional harmony that's not thoroughly covered.

Anyways, I don't see myself turning back.