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  1. #1

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    Hello All,

    New song threads in this topic have started, but contributions to this song's thread are always still welcome as well. If you want to post a performance of or have discussions regarding The Days of Wine and Roses, please do so here and help keep this thread alive!

    Inspired by the Jeff Arnold Study Group’s success and by comments expressed in the thread "What Perspectives Exist Here", I thought it would be fun to try and start up a solo guitar arranging group.

    The idea is to start a different song thread periodically, hopefully at least monthly, and encourage everyone to post a video or recording of how they would play/arrange that particular tune for solo guitar (i.e. with no other accompaniment).

    Suggested Guidelines

    Here are general guidelines for the group.

    1. All levels of players are strongly encouraged to participate, from beginners on up. We hope the group may even be rewarded occasionally, if not often, with contributions by seasoned pros and prominent guitarists. However, no matter your skill level you are strongly encouraged to join in. If you are open to hearing constructive comments and suggestions from the group, indicate #c&cwelcome in the title of your post.

    2. The arrangement can be easy and simple, or elaborate and complex, or simply playing it on the fly. It’s all about each person’s own interpretation and approach.

    3. After posting the arrangement, each person is encouraged to also post (in a video, on a recording or in writing) their approach to the song, or to specific parts of the song. This explanatory content can be in as much or as little detail as desired (or none at all). If the person is seeking specific help from the group this is a good place to ask for it.

    4. Written notations of the arrangement are certainly not expected. Each person can decide how to handle any such requests from the group.

    5. Future song selections and frequency will be made based on suggestions received and what appears to be a consensus. I’ll try and post a lead sheet for each song selection if that would be helpful. Of course, people can still play the song in any key (or keys) they choose.

    6. Encouragement to each person for their contributions are encouraged. Unless the performer indicates a willingness to hear criticisms (see #1 above), participants should not offer criticisms of individual performances. Advice should only be offered if the person specifically asks for it. Resist criticizing anything to do with the interpretation or "artsy" side of the performance and comment on techniques and tips instead (for example playing a particular passage or sugegsting chord embellishments, etc.)

    7. Participation in group discussions is encouraged for anyone, even if a person does not want to personally post their own arrangements at present for whatever reason.

    Goals of Group

    1. To encourage each other to become better solo guitar players and to share knowledge and skills in a friendly and helpful setting. It seems that if we individually work up an arrangement and then bring it to the group, it will be invaluable to see how people handled the song or specific parts of the song. We will all enhance our guitar skills and vocabulary. I would think new ideas would even be useful to the most advanced players.

    2. To increase our repertoire of solo guitar songs.

    3. To build confidence in playing for others, sharing our skills and in recording ourselves.

    Since there is a new thread for each song, there is no time pressure to keep up with the group. People can post to each song thread when they’re ready to.

    The Days of Wine and Roses was suggested as a good first song for the group to tackle. Attached a pdf of a lead sheet in the key of F if that would be helpful.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by PaulW10; 02-14-2018 at 03:50 PM. Reason: Update Group Guidelines

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2
    I'm in.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10
    Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions to make the group a success? Do you think you'll want to participate as time allows?
    This is a great, well thought-out post, Paul. I think it's just right. I don't know the secret sauce for really getting players of all levels involved, esp. entry-level CM.

    Honestly, I think it might be cool to open up the weeks before the thing is "go" to troubleshooting or work-shopping problem spots with voicings etc. It might encourage those who are just trying to figure out *one* way to get through the thing. This is a pretty good one for that. It's mostly straightforward, but it has a few spots that would've given me fits a few years ago.

    Why not open this last week or so before February up to only asking/answering questions regarding sticking points on basic approach or chord voicings? Maybe text only... I think it might encourage more involvement at all levels. If that idea was popular, we could do the same - but farther ahead of time - for future tunes.

    Just a thought...

  4. #3

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    Definitely in.

  5. #4

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    Count me in

  6. #5

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    I like the idea of each group being independent and making their own song choices and I especially like the idea of this group coming up with various levels of difficulty as far as the arrangements go. I wouldn't tackle How Deep Is The Ocean because I would never use it because of the difficulty in sight reading it.....Dan

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdan
    I like the idea of each group being independent and making their own song choices and I especially like the idea of this group coming up with various levels of difficulty as far as the arrangements go. I wouldn't tackle How Deep Is The Ocean because I would never use it because of the difficulty in sight reading it.....Dan
    Yeah I agree Dan. I think what makes a good solo guitar song is a nice melody and there are so many to choose from.

    One thing I like about solo guitar is the opportunity to totally personalize it. I also believe simple arrangements can be very enjoyable for listeners. I really hope players of all levels will feel welcome to participate in this group.

  8. #7

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    My thinking is to learn deeper.

    I love taking a song that does not float my boat and try and make it work for me.

    Personal thoughts only.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdan
    What key are you doing it in Lawson? I found an arrangement in the key of c that I'm beginning to work on.....Dan
    I'm using the Real Book lead sheet, which is in F.

  10. #9

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    Thanks for picking Days of Wine and Rose...a great tune with a great melody.

    I thought the thread concept would be more like "Solo Guitar - Days of Wine and Roses" with no reference to a month year or any other time restraint but rather a "parking place" to store ideas, performances, analysis and thoughts about the specific tune as it relates to solo guitar.

    Regardless I'm in and look forward to it! I will post something soon...even if it is in developmental stages...that would be part of the learning process.

    After a video submission I just may post a few chord grids Ted Green style for certain chords....fairly quick and easy to do.

    I believe the playing order on a Ted Green sheet goes:

    1)filled in circle
    2) x
    3) square
    4) triangle

    I've attached a small sample...like I said I'm a beginner but I liked the way these two chords sound for measure 9 and 10
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by alltunes; 01-22-2018 at 10:04 AM.

  11. #10

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    This is a cool group. I don't know if I'll have time this month (playing in 2 ensembles at the moment), but I thought I'd at least contribute one thing: transcription of Wes' chord melody. There are some cool ideas in here; i think it's worth a look.

    WES MONTGOMERY: DAYS OF WINE & ROSES

  12. #11

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    It's kind of interesting to me that it's hard to find this tune in any of the "standards arranged for solo guitar" type books. Reinforces perhaps that it's a good choice! We're on our own.

    I've completed a basic setting of the whole tune using pretty common chord grips, and also figured out one way to handle measure 3, with the D7b5b9 moving to D7nat5nat9, which was hanging me up a little.

    I'm looking forward to the discussion here!

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    It's kind of interesting to me that it's hard to find this tune in any of the "standards arranged for solo guitar" type books. Reinforces perhaps that it's a good choice! We're on our own.
    There is this?

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyb
    Well that would be one way to short-circuit the whole process! I looked at a line and decided not to look anymore, since I really want to see how far I can get without outside help. But it looks, from one line, like a playable treatment, though there isn't much bass action and there are holes. Solo guitar has the challenge of creating that illusion of an ensemble. that's turning out for me to be the real challenge. The voicings turn out to be pretty easy for a basic setting of the tune, but making it "work" so as to engage an audience... a different challenge!

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10
    It's great to see all the participants thus far!

    We're feeling this along as we go of course. Matt had suggested waiting until February with videos which gives people time. However if someone wants to post I'd hate to discourage any contributions. My original thinking was that participants would post a video of the complete song and then discuss any aspects of their arrangements they see fit, and take questions about it of course.

    What does everyone else think? I think if people want to begin posting and start the conversations I don't want to to discourage that.

    I started working on it this morning. It isn't the easiest song that's for sure! But it does leave a lot of room for interpretation!
    Just before l left for work this morning, I saw there was a major transit delay, so I figured what the heck? Why not kill that time more productively at home rather than waiting on a subway platform? I didn't notice it was for next month until after the fact. But since somebody has to break the ice, why not jump the gun and kill two metaphors (no, three!) with one stone?

    This is on the fly rather than arranged. I play this tune quite a bit and feel pretty free on it. At one point I had a full arrangement, largely stolen from Wes, but i find it more enjoyable to just play, and Wes already did Wes's version.

    Though not arranged, there are a couple of things I usually do. For instance, the first voicing I play here is my usual point of entry. On the second ending, instead of an Amin7b5/E7 change (per the Real Book chart), I just do a rootless E7#9, do that little hammer-on lick rather than a full III-vi-II-V, and end the tune on Bbmin6 rather than Fmaj. This is partly stolen from the Pat Martino version on Exit (my vote for best version ever).

    Between those bookends, I like to just let whatever happens happen. Ideally, it happens without stumbles and dropped/added beats, but not always ...



    John

    EDITED: Critiques and suggestions welcome.
    #c&cwelcome
    Last edited by John A.; 01-24-2018 at 08:52 PM.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by gggomez
    My thinking is to learn deeper.

    I love taking a song that does not float my boat and try and make it work for me.

    Personal thoughts only.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I agree with you on this gggomez. Some of my favorite songs of all time did not appeal to me at first.

    I imagine participants in this group will surely have songs they want to suggest for the group to try solo style which is why perhaps we should make our own song selections here?


    Quote Originally Posted by alltunes
    Thanks for picking Days of Wine and Rose...a great tune with a great melody.

    I thought the thread concept would be more like "Solo Guitar - Days of Wine and Roses" with no reference to a month year or any other time restraint but rather a "parking place" to store ideas, performances, analysis and thoughts about the specific tune as it relates to solo guitar.

    Regardless I'm in and look forward to it! I will post something soon...even if it is in developmental stages...that would be part of the learning process.....
    Thanks for making the suggestion for this first song alltunes! It seems people are liking working on it.

    I think we're together on what we thought the concept would be. I think the only reason I first put a month on there was possibly as a reference to how often we would start a new song thread. But you're right, why bother? We can add new song threads whenever we want. Why put a time constraint? For that reason you'll notice I changed the title of the thread to song #1 and eliminated the February reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
    This is a cool group. I don't know if I'll have time this month (playing in 2 ensembles at the moment), but I thought I'd at least contribute one thing: transcription of Wes' chord melody. There are some cool ideas in here; i think it's worth a look.

    WES MONTGOMERY: DAYS OF WINE & ROSES

    Wow thanks for posting this! I can't wait to study how Wes the master approached it. However, I'm resisting studying it too closely until I'm sort of happy with what I come up with on my own. Like Lawson mentions I want to see what I first can get on my own without outside help. It's one reason I've been trying to get mine done before others start posting their versions and they start influencing me.

    Anyway, I know it's hard to find time for a thread like this. I hope you can participate as soon as you can!

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Just before l left for work this morning, I saw there was a major transit delay, so I figured what the heck? Why not kill that time more productively at home rather than waiting on a subway platform? I didn't notice it was for next month until after the fact. But since somebody has to break the ice, why not jump the gun and kill two metaphors (no, three!) with one stone?

    This is on the fly rather than arranged. I play this tune quite a bit and feel pretty free on it. At one point I had a full arrangement, largely stolen from Wes, but i find it more enjoyable to just play, and Wes already did Wes's version.

    Though not arranged, there are a couple of things I usually do. For instance, the first voicing I play here is my usual point of entry. On the second ending, instead of an Amin7b5/E7 change (per the Real Book chart), I just do a rootless E7#9, do that little hammer-on lick rather than a full III-vi-II-V, and end the tune on Bbmin6 rather than Fmaj. This is partly stolen from the Pat Martino version on Exit (my vote for best version ever).

    Between those bookends, I like to just let whatever happens happen. Ideally, it happens without stumbles and dropped/added beats, but not always ...



    John
    Hey John. Great job!! And thanks very much for breaking the ice and being the first one out of the gate to post their version!! Although there had been some initial discussion about posting starting in February, I get the sense that there are a lot of people wanting to get the ball rolling so why try and hold back the dam (talk about metaphors...three in this paragraph so far). And you'll see the title of the thread is changed to eliminate the February reference anyhow.

    I really liked your version and the changes/chords you used. So, are you referring to a lead sheet when you play in the video? It doesn't matter of course and either way it sounds great. I was wondering your method for deciding what lines to play during improv.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10

    I really liked your version and the changes/chords you used. So, are you referring to a lead sheet when you play in the video? It doesn't matter of course and either way it sounds great. I was wondering your method for deciding what lines to play during improv.
    Thanks.

    I'm not referring to a lead sheet while playing this; I try as much as possible to play from memory, and just use charts when I don't really know the tune. As far as improv decisions go, this was pretty freely/spontaneously improvised, without a lot of thought about what to play. Overall, If I really know a tune, I don't think much. If I don't know it is well, most of my thought revolves around not getting lost and being aware of the harmony. I consciously practice note choices, changes and reharmonizations, phrasing, voicings, etc., but when I play a tune in it's entirety, what happens happens.

    John

  19. #18

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    This will be great...I'm tempted to listen to John A., but I want to try mine without any utside influence at first...I used to play this tune all the time, and now I'm realizing I haven't played it in ages...I want to sit down and try a first take and see what I remember of it, but that could be disastrous!

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Thanks.

    I'm not referring to a lead sheet while playing this; I try as much as possible to play from memory, and just use charts when I don't really know the tune. As far as improv decisions go, this was pretty freely/spontaneously improvised, without a lot of thought about what to play. Overall, If I really know a tune, I don't think much. If I don't know it is well, most of my thought revolves around not getting lost and being aware of the harmony. I consciously practice note choices, changes and reharmonizations, phrasing, voicings, etc., but when I play a tune in it's entirety, what happens happens.

    John
    Thanks for the explanation! I really liked what you did with it.

    I don't play much improv at all when playing solo although I'd like to try and incorporate some more. I find myself trying to think of where I am in the chord changes which is tough as no one else is playing along to keep me in line! I guess one thing that's good is it really shouldn't matter to me as long as I can find my way back into the song somehow!

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    This will be great...I'm tempted to listen to John A., but I want to try mine without any utside influence at first...I used to play this tune all the time, and now I'm realizing I haven't played it in ages...I want to sit down and try a first take and see what I remember of it, but that could be disastrous!
    I know what you mean Jeff! I really want to get mine done so I can analyze what I really did on my own versus what I subconsciously may have stolen, I mean was influenced by

  22. #21

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    So here's my "real time" stab at the first 16 measures. I'm thinking out loud while working down the lead sheet and seeing what voicings seem to work. Not a finished version at all, just a first run with more than my fair share of mistakes.

    This should make anyone feel much, much better about their own efforts!


  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    So here's my "real time" stab at the first 16 measures. I'm thinking out loud while working down the lead sheet and seeing what voicings seem to work. Not a finished version at all, just a first run with more than my fair share of mistakes.

    This should make anyone feel much, much better about their own efforts!

    Hi Lawson,

    I'm at work and should be working, but I had to stop and watch your video. Wonderful stuff! It's really fun and informative. You've got a great delivery style and sense of humor. And this is going to be very helpful to a lot of people I'm sure. It was a really good idea to document going through it in real time, especially in the beginning phases of this group. Amazing how fast you pulled it together and it sounded good!!. I found your use of the harmonized scale to be really helpful. Thanks for posting this!
    Paul

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10
    Hi Lawson,

    I'm at work and should be working, but I had to stop and watch your video. Wonderful stuff! It's really fun and informative. You've got a great delivery style and sense of humor. And this is going to be very helpful to a lot of people I'm sure. It was a really good idea to document going through it in real time, especially in the beginning phases of this group. Amazing how fast you pulled it together and it sounded good!!. I found your use of the harmonized scale to be really helpful. Thanks for posting this!
    Paul
    Thanks for that kind word. I find I can almost imagine the folks on this forum, at least, the ones I've interacted with for a while, sitting in the room and just talking about doing the tune. Once I have that mindset, then it becomes easy just to read down the chart and try voicings. I also have this pattern that every single day I video record 10-15 minutes of my practice playing. Then driving back and forth from work, or on errands, I listen to it and it's easy to enjoy it and critique it because it's almost like it's not me anymore, just some guy. After listening and thinking about it, I usually delete the clip unless I want to post it for some reason.

    Daily recording helps me make good clips because the freeze-up when the record button gets pushed isn't so great, it's no big deal. Learning to be somewhat objective (both positive and critical) is very helpful for growth, and clips help me do that.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Thanks for that kind word. I find I can almost imagine the folks on this forum, at least, the ones I've interacted with for a while, sitting in the room and just talking about doing the tune. Once I have that mindset, then it becomes easy just to read down the chart and try voicings. I also have this pattern that every single day I video record 10-15 minutes of my practice playing. Then driving back and forth from work, or on errands, I listen to it and it's easy to enjoy it and critique it because it's almost like it's not me anymore, just some guy. After listening and thinking about it, I usually delete the clip unless I want to post it for some reason.

    Daily recording helps me make good clips because the freeze-up when the record button gets pushed isn't so great, it's no big deal. Learning to be somewhat objective (both positive and critical) is very helpful for growth, and clips help me do that.
    Excellent idea about recording yourself and listening to the video when driving etc. I'm sure that helps your phrasing and approach. I'm sure it's nice to hear yourself as well, very rewarding

    In the limited video recording I've done of myself I get VERY nervous when I hit the play button. It makes no sense as I'm the only one there and no one else will see it if I don't want them to. That's something I'm hoping this thread will help me cure.

    I was wondering....do you have some kind of video editing software you use to put in your intro screens etc?

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10
    Excellent idea about recording yourself and listening to the video when driving etc. I'm sure that helps your phrasing and approach. I'm sure it's nice to hear yourself as well, very rewarding

    In the limited video recording I've done of myself I get VERY nervous when I hit the play button. It makes no sense as I'm the only one there and no one else will see it if I don't want them to. That's something I'm hoping this thread will help me cure.

    I was wondering....do you have some kind of video editing software you use to put in your intro screens etc?
    Yes I've evolved a setup that works well for me. I use a ProSonus Audiobox iTwo, which is one of the cheaper USB interfaces out there. I use one channel for a backing track or the microphone (if I'm talking). The other channel is for the guitar, either mic'ing the amp or using a direct line out. The USB port then goes to my iPhone's Lightning port and I record on the iPhone.

    The resulting file I move to my laptop and I use a program called Screenflow. I use it to prepare lectures for my students when I'm out of town or produce extended learning units. It captures video from a file, from the webcam, or from the screen itself. It was designed for educators and presenters who need to create video with pretty good control of color, sound, etc. with basic transitions and titles, but it's not some elaborate professional program. I drop the clip into Screenflow, make my text titles and add any pictures I want to use. Screenflow also has some basic audio tweaks. I can change the "pan" of the audio, and I usually blend the signals toward the center for web clips. I also can reduce the levels and such as that. Not a lot of EQ and pro-audio, but enough to create a decent clip.

    Then Screenflow allows me to "output" the finished clip in whatever format I need, and it has presets that normally work fine for me. Over time I've learned to do this pretty quickly and exploit the potential of the program, though it's got limits.

    Hope that helps!

  27. #26

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    Okay here's an early version. I was working on this before this thread so had stolen a few ideas already...some are my own

    Last edited by alltunes; 01-22-2018 at 09:21 PM.

  28. #27

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    here's my version, a bit rough because I had to use a pick because one of my nails broke so I cut them.

  29. #28

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    Here's my second installment thinking out loud through this tune.

    The guitar sound for some reason isn't so great--to boomy, which resulted from poor microphones placement vis. the amp. I hope it doesnt' detract too much.


  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by alltunes
    Okay here's an early version. I was working on this before this thread so had stolen a few ideas already...some are my own

    I get "this video unavailable". Maybe you don't have it set to "public"?

    John

  31. #30

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    oops sorry I guess I didn't understand the difference between "private" and "unlisted"..should be fixed now

  32. #31

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    Great thread, now I just need to find a decent recording method, my Android isn't helping much.

    By the way, I'm not a pro at all.

    I think I should post something before I make any other comment - sort of price of entry - and that will probably take a week or two.

  33. #32

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    Putting this first take out there, really more so I can listen to others...my kids are loud in this one, talking about TaTa's, which isn't anything dirty, its the local pizza place they love..

    Anyway...days...of wine and roses

    #c&cwelcome

    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 01-24-2018 at 07:12 PM.

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Putting this first take out there, really more so I can listen to others...my kids are loud in this one, talking about TaTa's, which isn't anything dirty, its the local pizza place they love..

    Anyway...days...of wine and roses

    Very nice, Jeff. As always, it all flows extremely well, and that little guitar is very well suited to your solo playing. An object lessons in how it's done..Jeff always hits the right bases - some polyphony, some block harmony, some single lines, melody always clearly present.

    John

  35. #34

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    I looked up the song and discovered it is really about descending into alcoholism and madness.

    Not sure how best to express that on the guitar...

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I looked up the song and discovered it is really about descending into alcoholism and madness.

    Not sure how best to express that on the guitar...
    It can be that (and I realize that the poem it's based on and the movie it's from ARE that), but it can also be seen as a wistful look at lost youth. Also, the movie has a cautiously semi-hopeful ending, so, uh, make (Jack) lemon(s) from lemonade? The movie is unbelievable, btw. Remick and Lemon give two of the deepest, most astounding performances in the history of film. I knew the tune and thought of it as somewhat "happy" long before I saw the movie, which is incredibly dark, which is somewhat jarring. It's also difficult to process this as being directed by the guy who made the Pink Panther movies (Blake Edwards), and starring the pretty blond/bland star of 70s made or TV movies (Lee Remick), though it's textbook funny/despairing Lemon.

    John

  37. #36

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    Royce Campbell was Henry Mancini's guitarist for about 20 years up to Mancini's death. Here is his solo performance of DWR. It's amazing that he has so much space, but it's also got a strong moving pulse. Lots of amazing ideas here.


  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Putting this first take out there, really more so I can listen to others...my kids are loud in this one, talking about TaTa's, which isn't anything dirty, its the local pizza place they love..

    Anyway...days...of wine and roses
    Very beautifully played. You have some wonderful substitutions in there. I also liked hearing "YOU SAID A BAD WORD!" at just the right moment.

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Very beautifully played. You have some wonderful substitutions in there. I also liked hearing "YOU SAID A BAD WORD!" at just the right moment.
    Funny you should say that, as I thought I played it pretty straight...but then again, this was from memory of something I did by ear, I should probably look at a chart and compare!

    It was interesting, I hadn't played it in a long time...you can see there's one point at the beginning where I definitely almost stall out...and then it just came back, very easily. Some tunes are like that, I guess. Some are definitely not.

    Anyway, now I'm happy I got one out there, so I'll go back and listen to the others, and then I'll polish mine up a bit (but not too much, I hate cutesy worked out arrangements!!!) and do some improvising.

    One thing I find very interesting about this tune is the space in the melody...and if you play it like a singer, you don't have to start very many of the vocal phrases on the downbeat at all...you can actually get this thing going where it's in time, but has a "rubato" feel. I'm going to work a lot more with that this month.

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Funny you should say that, as I thought I played it pretty straight...but then again, this was from memory of something I did by ear, I should probably look at a chart and compare!

    It was interesting, I hadn't played it in a long time...you can see there's one point at the beginning where I definitely almost stall out...and then it just came back, very easily. Some tunes are like that, I guess. Some are definitely not.

    Anyway, now I'm happy I got one out there, so I'll go back and listen to the others, and then I'll polish mine up a bit (but not too much, I hate cutesy worked out arrangements!!!) and do some improvising.

    One thing I find very interesting about this tune is the space in the melody...and if you play it like a singer, you don't have to start very many of the vocal phrases on the downbeat at all...you can actually get this thing going where it's in time, but has a "rubato" feel. I'm going to work a lot more with that this month.
    Agreed, one can definitely flow in and out of rubato feel, and it has sections where it really lends itself to swing/walking feels. But, I think one does have to come home at some point, and play enough of the form in time to keep it grounded.

    John

  41. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Funny you should say that, as I thought I played it pretty straight...but then again, this was from memory of something I did by ear, I should probably look at a chart and compare!

    It was interesting, I hadn't played it in a long time...you can see there's one point at the beginning where I definitely almost stall out...and then it just came back, very easily. Some tunes are like that, I guess. Some are definitely not.

    Anyway, now I'm happy I got one out there, so I'll go back and listen to the others, and then I'll polish mine up a bit (but not too much, I hate cutesy worked out arrangements!!!) and do some improvising.

    One thing I find very interesting about this tune is the space in the melody...and if you play it like a singer, you don't have to start very many of the vocal phrases on the downbeat at all...you can actually get this thing going where it's in time, but has a "rubato" feel. I'm going to work a lot more with that this month.
    "In time rubato...." That's what I'm going for as well. Want to be able to pat my foot while laying back. Anyway. Probably too much here, but an attempt at basic. Great tune...

    Voicings etc:
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 01-23-2018 at 03:29 PM.

  42. #41

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    I agree, and maybe I'm not explaining myself well, but what I'm going to try is playing in time, but playing the melody freer. Gonna be some serious metronome work for me Really working the melody like a singer, playing with the time a bit, but not losing the underlying swing or adding/dropping beats...

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I agree, and maybe I'm not explaining myself well, but what I'm going to try is playing in time, but playing the melody freer. Gonna be some serious metronome work for me Really working the melody like a singer, playing with the time a bit, but not losing the underlying swing or adding/dropping beats...
    I like that concept. A lot of people mistake that for "plain" rubato, but it's actually still got a pulse and movement to it. I share your lack of enthusiasm for "nice" arrangements and rather like having a set of "moves" for playing melodies through changes and then choosing them on the fly.

  44. #43

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    Well I had a couple of hours last night, so here is my contribution. My inclination is to try to refine it or get a clean take, but if I do that I probably will just never actually post anything. It will be a real challenge to do one a week, but I know I'm going to learn tons by doing it. Thanks for getting this started!


  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Here's my second installment thinking out loud through this tune.

    The guitar sound for some reason isn't so great--to boomy, which resulted from poor microphones placement vis. the amp. I hope it doesnt' detract too much.

    Thanks for posting this second one as well! Very fun and informative. And you're right about having fun with the guitar. I believe I always have fun when I'm playing, although there may be a look of sheer terror on my face! And also I think a C- grade on a Wes impersonation would probably earn an A in most places!!

    BTW thank you also for your tips on the videos and for mentioning Screenflow. I'm going to check that out!

  46. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Just before l left for work this morning, I saw there was a major transit delay, so I figured what the heck? Why not kill that time more productively at home rather than waiting on a subway platform? I didn't notice it was for next month until after the fact. But since somebody has to break the ice, why not jump the gun and kill two metaphors (no, three!) with one stone?

    This is on the fly rather than arranged. I play this tune quite a bit and feel pretty free on it. At one point I had a full arrangement, largely stolen from Wes, but i find it more enjoyable to just play, and Wes already did Wes's version.

    Though not arranged, there are a couple of things I usually do. For instance, the first voicing I play here is my usual point of entry. On the second ending, instead of an Amin7b5/E7 change (per the Real Book chart), I just do a rootless E7#9, do that little hammer-on lick rather than a full III-vi-II-V, and end the tune on Bbmin6 rather than Fmaj. This is partly stolen from the Pat Martino version on Exit (my vote for best version ever).

    Between those bookends, I like to just let whatever happens happen. Ideally, it happens without stumbles and dropped/added beats, but not always ...



    John
    Obvious that you've spent some time with that tune. Nice variety of touches. I especially like the double stops and walking bass.

  47. #46

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    I am so excited that the thread is taking off and people seem to really be enjoying themselves!! I think all the contributions have been really great. It's very cool hearing how everyone has their own take on it. I did work on my arrangement a lot before listening to most all of these so that I wouldn't be overly-influenced. I was thinking we may have a few more days before people started posting in earnest, but it appears the floodgates have opened! I just need how to remember to work my video camera and I will get something posted as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by alltunes
    Okay here's an early version. I was working on this before this thread so had stolen a few ideas already...some are my own

    Sounds really great alltunes!! Some great lines and unexpected turns which are always fun, but the melody stays right with it. Very nice tone too out of your guitar!!


    Quote Originally Posted by nick1994


    here's my version, a bit rough because I had to use a pick because one of my nails broke so I cut them.
    Wow also very nice sounding nick1994. I listened while working and it's very relaxing and focusing. After hearing this I need to work on incorporating improv in my songs more.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Putting this first take out there, really more so I can listen to others...my kids are loud in this one, talking about TaTa's, which isn't anything dirty, its the local pizza place they love..

    Anyway...days...of wine and roses


    Amazing Jeff!! What a delight to hear. Lovely and relaxing. Love your connecting lines and your accompaniment with and interplay with the melody. And your guitar's tone is beautiful. Wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    "In time rubato...." That's what I'm going for as well. Want to be able to pat my foot while laying back. Anyway. Probably too much here, but an attempt at basic. Great tune...

    Voicings etc:
    Very very nice!!! Great playing and chord voicings. I really like how you got a swing feel going in a solo setting on the rubato clip. My mind was dropping in the bass and drums from how you implied them. Very cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    Well I had a couple of hours last night, so here is my contribution. My inclination is to try to refine it or get a clean take, but if I do that I probably will just never actually post anything. It will be a real challenge to do one a week, but I know I'm going to learn tons by doing it. Thanks for getting this started!

    Very nice rlrhett! Nice chord accompaniment and selections. By the way there are no time pressures. We were originally thinking of adding one song per month, but people can add to each thread whenever they're ready.

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    "In time rubato...." That's what I'm going for as well. Want to be able to pat my foot while laying back. Anyway. Probably too much here, but an attempt at basic. Great tune...

    Voicings etc:
    Those are nice voicings, Matt.

    John

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Obvious that you've spent some time with that tune. Nice variety of touches. I especially like the double stops and walking bass.
    Thanks. TBH, it's a lot sloppier than I would like. There a couple dropped beats and stumbles, and the time is a bit lost in the single line sections. I think the overall concept is about right, but I think I need to pay more attention to the rhythm.

    John

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    "In time rubato...." That's what I'm going for as well. Want to be able to pat my foot while laying back. Anyway. Probably too much here, but an attempt at basic. Great tune...

    Voicings etc:
    Hey Matt
    I really, really enjoyed hearing you play this. It combined a nice swingy ballad feel with a periodic gypsy feeling that really shifted my mental image of this tune. Your treatment of the song is much more mature and developed than anything I've come up with, and I thought it was rich listening.

    I also realized that I am likely playing the tune too fast. Sub-dividing as you've described is hard to do if the tune is going quickly, and I've tended to play it quickly because the first person I ever heard play it, when I got into jazz, was Bireli Lagrene! His "Standards" album made a huge impression on me and he plays that at a pretty brisk swing tempo, so that became my template. I see I'm missing a lot of potential doing it that way, so I think I want to slow it down and work the harmonic ideas better.

    Thanks for this. I have enjoyed interacting with you on the forum, but hearing you play, and hearing how you process the choices of what to play, was both informative and inspiring!

  51. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Hey Matt
    I really, really enjoyed hearing you play this. It combined a nice swingy ballad feel with a periodic gypsy feeling that really shifted my mental image of this tune. Your treatment of the song is much more mature and developed than anything I've come up with, and I thought it was rich listening.

    I also realized that I am likely playing the tune too fast. Sub-dividing as you've described is hard to do if the tune is going quickly, and I've tended to play it quickly because the first person I ever heard play it, when I got into jazz, was Bireli Lagrene! His "Standards" album made a huge impression on me and he plays that at a pretty brisk swing tempo, so that became my template. I see I'm missing a lot of potential doing it that way, so I think I want to slow it down and work the harmonic ideas better.

    Thanks for this. I have enjoyed interacting with you on the forum, but hearing you play, and hearing how you process the choices of what to play, was both informative and inspiring!
    Thanks Lawson. Very kind. The honest truth is that it's a hack and helps a great deal in actually playing tunes, especially busy changes. It's the flipside of what otherwise would be the "problem": playing slower is otherwise harder, if you don't do something with it. But of course the flipside part is that, once you learn to subdivide things a little more, it just slows everything down, and you have tons of time to think, move fingers etc. I'm really just not good enough to play a lot of this stuff faster yet. (Need to learn this tune tbh).

    It's funny. I really developed this way of playing out of not having anything much interesting to play harmonically. When you create the time and space, it kind of begins to fill itself. Being honest, I've never been a "feel" player, not very soulful at all. What I'm doing is pretty mechanical, at least in the way that it originated as a thought process for me. It's pretty simple and I can break it down, if anyone's interested. Anyway, the slow thing is very related to kind of a blues/gospel feel, which is more in line with what I actually play most of the time. Jazz is just the hobby.

    On a sidenote, the next subdivision "down", a slow double time, is where the REAL grease is. Listen to Wes on Misty. Painfully slow to my ears when I first started listening to it. Couldn't quite get my head around it, but I finally kind of "got it". It just gives him so much space, and he works it masterfully, in terms of phrasing and everything. Now it's one of my absolute favorites. To my ears, Wes usually goes more doubletime on ballads. Anyway, I've listened to too much Keith Jarrett trio, and they kind of LIVE up in that stuff.

    Always enjoy your posts and videos, especially the Raney. I'm subscribed and usually catch the vids before I see them here.

    Thanks again. All the best.